Abandoned Games

[Celebrindan]

Games that have been abandoned by their developers need to have a special notification or label in the Steam Store.

Tired of getting shafted with crap code, only to find the developers have left town and will never fix the problems.

[davidb11]

Attacking and insulting other users is frowned upon and does not help anyone take you seriously.
Please don't do that.
It's uncalled for.

[Celebrindan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von davidb11:

Attacking and insulting other users is frowned upon and does not help anyone take you seriously.
Please don't do that.
It's uncalled for.

I concur, but will respond in kind.
Nowadays I'm a 'get what you play for' kind of guy.
Mostly because I've been on the internet since it was nothing but a string of BBSs,
I've seen it devolve from something wonderful, into the worthless and vicious opinion-driven drool it lives and breathes today.
After decades of trying, I don't care to be civil to the scum that inhabits most of it, anymore.
They are not worth the effort, and will ignore every fact you present in order to justify their inbred and ignorant opinions.
Posting utterly fallacious and imaginary arguments, that they invent on the spur of the moment, as if it's some kind of fact that all must live by.
It's simply not worth it.
I am completely out of #v<#$ to give.

[dandykong]

SteamDB's browser extension does this. It adds a "last depot update" entry to every store page, and turns it bright red if the developer hasn't updated in years.

Though this also affects a lot of classic games, especially dinosaurs like HL1, which rarely get updates because of their age.

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Looks like someone thinks 'Fatuous' is a virtue.
The number of self-contradicting and self-defeating statements here boggles the mind.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

There is a reasonable definirtion. It must be a game. That's it.
Beyond that the dev/pub as the creator is at liberty to define when they are done. If you're painting a picture You decide when you're done. No one else. If someone else wants to define when you're done, they have to contract you to paint.

In which case it's done when they say its done and we've seen countless examples of how well that doesn't work.

My four year old niece's answer to everything, 'I can't!'
Seems you can't come up with a single example, from your 'countless' number of them.
Why is that?

Cyberpunk, Fallout '76. Aliens: Colonial Marines, DN4E, Heck pick a AAA game that had ♥♥♥♥♥♥ performance and wwas glitched to hell at launch and you'll a scenario where the developers were forced by the puiblishers to rush things out the door.

You haven't been gaming very long have you M8?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

...


You don't irony much do you?
What do you think the law of the jungle is, if it's not a (the) 'basical' rule?
People who inhabited caves lived by this rule.
That's why it is NOT the pinnacle of civilization.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

The law of the Jungle is 'survival at all costs'.
This is more about knowing the difference between blackberry and deadly nightshade.
Again. Be aware.
DOn't buy a clearly labelled donkey and say afterwards you thought you were buying a camel.

Wrong again.
Survival of the fittest, is the law of the jungle.
The 'cost' to you is of no consequence.

Survival of the Fittest and Fitness is determined by survival.
Hence Survival at all costs. Never mind who you have to shank, or what limb you have to chew through so long as you live one day more you're fit.

Survival also requires being aware enough to know a poisonous mushroom from an edible one.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

So, please point to a single 'clearly labeled' 'This code is garbage!' post from a game dev.

I dunno The Negative review aggregate is a pretty clear label for most that the game should be avoided for whatever reason. I mean it iits hard to say whether a game is poorly coded, or it's a perfect coding of a ♥♥♥♥ game mechanic.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von xAlphaStarOmegax:

I honestly think the main culprit is early access, it needs to be outright removed. We need to go back to the days of when you bought a game you knew it was finished,

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

When was that? Like seriously. When?

Look into the code of just about any game and you'll find a slew of unused assets ranging from textures to entire levels. No game is ever 'finished' Its just at the point that the dev feels its worth selling. That's it. And as the consumer we are the ones who have rthe power to validate or condemn their decision by purchasing their product or declining to purchase.

1998.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Good choice m8. Pretty much every PC game released that year was chockful of unused content...including even Half-Life :P

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von xAlphaStarOmegax:

now devs can pump out ea games and abandon them leaving you with nothing but junk with no recourse.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Nah. People are just so in love with self-victimization that they coinstantly blame everyone else for their bad decisions but themselves.

Glad to know you'e never been ganked by crappy code.

You must be a noob, because it's been going on ever since Devs paid-off Congress to pass the DRMA in 1998.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

You're going to have to clarify that m8 because I could find nothing relating to such thing. CItation needed.
And bad code has been a thing since code was a thing...especially in games.

The Digital Rights Management Act, 1998.
Made selling bad code profitable, and left the customer with no recourse once the package was opened.
Opening the package was required to use the disc to install the game.

Dude Not seeing any such act. Only Act I can find mentuion of is the DMCA.
COmpanies have always had the right to use DRM of whatever stripe to protect against illicit copying.

The Return Policy on opened software is tyupically store based and has been that way since Store owners cottoned to the fact that people could just copy the game and return the original disks.

Most stores have similar policies on Books, DVD, Music CD's, etc.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von xAlphaStarOmegax:

I dont think Steam will do anything about it though.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Nothing to be done about it. You choose what you want to buy. Don't choose to buy 'unfinished crap' and you won't have a problem.

Your point seems to hinge on the idea that all of this is related to being an early-access participant.

No. A little research will always show up whether or not a game is something you'll enjoy or not.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

This is only in your mind. I do not participate in any beta or early-access programs.

Then you are really bad an reseraching your purchases apparently.
Might want to work on that.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Cartridge games don't count.

The developer of a cartridge game can't come to your house and take the queens off your chessboard.

The fact that you use the word 'purchase' here shows a real lack of awareness.

You don't own anything here.

None of the games you paid money for here belong to you.

This has nothing about what can be done by the developer. The point is by your definition, every cartidge game would count as Abandoned, because There is literally zero support., and zero fixing the bugs and glitches.

And this is where being aware comes into play m8.
I know what I'm paying for, purchasing if you will, is not rthe game, but rather the luicense to play the game. WHich is all you've ever really been purchasing for decades anyway. The only difference was back then you couldn't really separate the game from its storage medium. NO the data and the medium are complete abstracted.

Let me try to be clear and concise here.

STEAM DOES NOT SELL CARTRIDGE GAMES.
See how that works?

Yeah but just like cartridges some devs take the approach of being done after release.
That's the point. Your definition of abandoned doesn't actually hold up very well. There is either a cancelled development project, or a game that has been released and hit EOL.

EoL can end rather suddenly. I mean I was rather surprised that one of my older games actually got an update. Master of Magic,. And heck Just Recentlty NWN:EE got an update and Into teh Breach is also getting an update.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

M8.
I know it's hard to grasp, but chances are if tyou keep finding yourself stuck with bad games, the faults on you for not doing a better job of researching.

What on Earth makes you think you're qualified to argue this position?
You demonstrate and admit to having so little knowledge of important issues that I am amazed that you think your opinion is of any value here, whatsoever.

Projecting isn't helping your case m8. I speak as a humble gamer that has managed to more or less completely avoid regretful purchases. I dunno. Maybe aactually researching purchases before putting down money works.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

As such this will be my last response to your misdirection, nonsense and avarice.

Have a nice day.

Avarice?
Do you even know what that word means, or were you just throwing ina random non sequitur?

[IFIYGD]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

You must be a noob, because it's been going on ever since Devs paid-off Congress to pass the DRMA in 1998.

And you must be a noob calling the DMCA "DRMA"- though the DMCA does have a section in it regarding DRM in digital content, including but not limited to video games.

You do understand that the DMCA applies to not only video games, but movies, TV shows and clips, music, photographs, digital art, articles published online- really anything that is or can be published or posted online can be potentially covered by the DMCA- not just video games.

Though I do not really understand what a copyright protection act has to do with whether a game is shovelware, abandonware ,or simply facing a lengthy development delay if it still has an Early Access status on its store page.

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von davidb11:

Attacking and insulting other users is frowned upon and does not help anyone take you seriously.
Please don't do that.
It's uncalled for.

I concur, but will respond in kind.
Nowadays I'm a 'get what you play for' kind of guy.

Mmmm-Hmmm

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Celebrindan:

Posting utterly fallacious and imaginary arguments, that they invent on the spur of the moment, as if it's some kind of fact that all must live by.
It's simply not worth it.
I am completely out of #v<#$ to give.

Oh don't worry m8. He don't hold those imaginary fallacious arguments against you. We're sure you'll grow out of it...some day...eventually...

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dandykong:

SteamDB's browser extension does this. It adds a "last depot update" entry to every store page, and turns it bright red if the developer hasn't updated in years.

Though this also affects a lot of classic games, especially dinosaurs like HL1, which rarely get updates because of their age.

A good game seldome needs tweaks and updates past a certain point.

[Yukki Freeman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dandykong:

SteamDB's browser extension does this. It adds a "last depot update" entry to every store page, and turns it bright red if the developer hasn't updated in years.

Though this also affects a lot of classic games, especially dinosaurs like HL1, which rarely get updates because of their age.

i agree this can affects, but could have one thing like "finished game" and "abandoned game" for exemple, HL1 could be "finished game" and just survive and others games with closed servers as "abandoned" i think this can make to us dont buy games we cant play anymore

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yukki :3:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dandykong:

SteamDB's browser extension does this. It adds a "last depot update" entry to every store page, and turns it bright red if the developer hasn't updated in years.

Though this also affects a lot of classic games, especially dinosaurs like HL1, which rarely get updates because of their age.

i agree this can affects, but could have one thing like "finished game" and "abandoned game" for exemple, HL1 could be "finished game" and just survive and others games with closed servers as "abandoned" i think this can make to us dont buy games we cant play anymore

Or you could just read the reviews or forums. You know. Also when a game relies heavily or entirely on servers that are shut down it typically gets pulled from sale altogether.

Or at the very least the Online Multiplayer/Multiplayer tags are removed.

[dandykong]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yukki :3:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dandykong:

SteamDB's browser extension does this. It adds a "last depot update" entry to every store page, and turns it bright red if the developer hasn't updated in years.

Though this also affects a lot of classic games, especially dinosaurs like HL1, which rarely get updates because of their age.

i agree this can affects, but could have one thing like "finished game" and "abandoned game" for exemple, HL1 could be "finished game" and just survive and others games with closed servers as "abandoned" i think this can make to us dont buy games we cant play anymore

A ToS clause against exit scams and a new report category would be great for this, since exit scams contribute to most of the abandonware on Steam.

[dandykong]

Word of advice, when someone is doing the following:

• Multi-quote gish gallops that take forever to scroll through and ages to reply
  
• Gratuitous use of ad-hominem attacks
  
• Hunting for fallacies and starting a whole new argument from each one
  
• Arguing against things which make zero sense to be opposed to by any stretch of the imagination

Block and move on. You're being trolled.

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dandykong:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yukki :3:

i agree this can affects, but could have one thing like "finished game" and "abandoned game" for exemple, HL1 could be "finished game" and just survive and others games with closed servers as "abandoned" i think this can make to us dont buy games we cant play anymore

A ToS clause against exit scams and a new report category would be great for this, since exit scams contribute to most of the abandonware on Steam.

Already exists. Basically you're required to give notice of things like server shutdowns of at least 3 months. FOr most regions it's 6 months. Otherwise any purchase made within that period are eligible for full refund.

Also can you point to an example of such a scam? Because I get the feeling that we'd just see you know and best a crappy game that's hit EoL.

[dandykong]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von dandykong:

A ToS clause against exit scams and a new report category would be great for this, since exit scams contribute to most of the abandonware on Steam.

Already exists. Basically you're required to give notice of things like server shutdowns of at least 3 months. FOr most regions it's 6 months. Otherwise any purchase made within that period are eligible for full refund.

Also can you point to an example of such a scam? Because I get the feeling that we'd just see you know and best a crappy game that's hit EoL.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/252770/Vox/

Developer made a skeleton project, grabbed the money and ran, and then vehemently defended his right to keep the game listed on Steam despite admitting to the exit scam. It eventually got forcibly retired after everyone reported it. He went on to make a crypto game and slow-rug it, and still comes back to Steam to periodically nuke his forums to this day.

EDIT: It's called Vox. It seems Steam is disabling links to it even though retired games can otherwise be shared just fine.

[IFIYGD]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Already exists. Basically you're required to give notice of things like server shutdowns of at least 3 months. FOr most regions it's 6 months. Otherwise any purchase made within that period are eligible for full refund.

Also can you point to an example of such a scam? Because I get the feeling that we'd just see you know and best a crappy game that's hit EoL.

Well, there was Bloodgate, which wasn't in Early Access when it shut down, and was a singleplayer game that required online-always for random server-side loot drops. Those of us that owned it and actually enjoyed the game were given way less than 3 months notice that the servers were shutting down, and the game did remain on sale until the day it actually pulled the plug on the servers. The achievements unlocked server-side as well, so it left a number of players scrambling to try to unlock achievements before the game became unplayable. You can't launch it now- it required server connection to play at all.

Which was a lesson learned- I steer clear of games that require online-always now. But to be fair, it's the only game I have owned in my 18 years on Steam that I encountered this issue with.
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/464470?updates=true

[Start_Running]

Did you attempt a refund? Or rather did those who purchased the game within 3 -6 months of the game's server shut down request a refund?

[IFIYGD]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Did you attempt a refund? Or rather did those who purchased the game within 3 -6 months of the game's server shut down request a refund?

I didn't- I owned the game and had too many hours in it to even remotely have a chance at a manual refund. No idea if folks who bought the game after the shut-down notice was published tried for and got one. Though, TBH, if the announcement was published and they bought the game anyway... kinda on them if a refund attempt got rejected. Just pointing out that "3 months notice" isn't a requirement, or at least it wasn't back then.

And a quick edit- the game was still in Early Access- my mistake there. I didn't look at my review or the store page, just the news announcements- my bad.