Game Playability Database for Library & Store

[[EW] Mitsie]

I have multiple devices that all have different graphics cards. While it is great that I can access all my games on any machine, Why would I want to install or buy games for a machine that simply doesn't have the power to run them? I've always wondered over the years why Valve hasn't collected the performance of games running on certain hardware and allowed users the ability to filter the store by games that will run on their Hardware.

The store is full of reviews of purchases where the customer had to return the game because it didn't work on their device. I play on my desktop which has a High-end graphics card, it plays everything I throw at it. If I take my lower-end laptops on the go for work and want to play a game, I have to look at my library of 900 games and try to work out what would play on the device.

Sometimes I fancy a new game, but it is a nightmare trying to work out on the store if the game I want would play on the device I'm using. The only way is to purchase the game, download it, try it out, and if it doesn't work, uninstall then request a refund. Not only is this a waste of my time, but it's also a waste of Valve Support time & money, issuing a refund.

What a nightmare it is ! It's a lot simpler to keep your wallet in your pocket and give it a miss.

If a certain game doesn't work on an Intel G640, why do another 1000 customers with an Intel G640 graphics card have to purchase the game to find out the game doesn't work on their hardware as well?

In a perfect world, the Steam library would be able to show you what games work well on your Graphics card. Same as the "Works great on Deck" Store section for the Steam Deck that is being introduced.

Surely Valve could compile a list of hardware similar to when it takes the yearly Hardware survey and the Steam overlay has a built-in FPS counter. Couldn't that data be sent with the Hardware information to Valve to create a database of game playability?

Even a Game Playability / Hardware survey so we could complete, helping others with similar Hardware. You could possibly opt-in to leave a hardware playability rating on each device you play your games on, leaving a playability review for others on the Store to browse.

Even the ability for the Steam client to be able to detect your Hardware and automatically cross reference it with the Game's store page minimum spec to create a "Works well on this Device" tab. Its an almost impossible task to cross reference your library with the store pages manually when picking a game.

Alternatively the ability to add custom tags to my library of games, so if I've tested a game on a device, I could add a custom tag for my Library to find these games quickly.

It would be a dream to be able to just pick up any device and be able to click on my Library and choose the "Works well on this device" and not have to test out numerous games until I find a game that works. If you are on a metered connection, this becomes even more of an obstacle.

Wouldnt it be great if I was able to visit the Steam store and purchase a game, Knowing that there is a very strong possibility the game that I'm buying, will work on my device, because others before me have tested it ?

[Start_Running]

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

Ok memorise all the minimum specifications of my games and know all my system specs off by heart. Gotcha.

Or you know, use the Category system to organize your games based on what machine they'll run on. But hey which ever solution works for ye.

Crazy Tiger님이 먼저 게시:

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

The same as if you were wanting to buy a small TV from an Ecommerce website. You could either manually go through every TV and check the Size or you could use the filter on the side of the website to filter all TVs < "Less than 40 inch" to find what you are looking for.

Not the same since TV size is standardised, it means the same across the board. Minimum specs do not.

Not to merntion he seems not to get that a game 'running' doesn't necessarily mean it will run to player satsifaction. I mean 360p 15fps with all settings low or off, and 3 minute load times., is still 'running'.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

But like you have just said, if my graphics card is above the minimum specs, there is a high probability I can play the game anyway. Hence I would feel relatively confident the game would work.

Yeah but then there's the occasional instance where your card is a lateral shift from the sopecified card. Same hardware, but you might not support a particular insttuiction set, or a particular shader.

We're not even getting into the added complication of things like SLI/Crossfire and drivers.

[Gwarsbane]

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

Ettanin님이 먼저 게시:

Liability. To the customer:
Steam would have to offer much more loosened refund options if they overestimated the capabilities of your system setup, be it drivers, interfering software or just misjudged hardware.

Liability. To the publisher:
Steam would be liable for missed sales if they underestimated the capabilities of your system setup, be it outdated hardware lists, misjudging benchmark results or due to interfering software.

No, Valve wouldn't do that.

When I walk into a Plumbing store and I give the person behind the counter my specifications, he isn't liable for matching the products instore to my specification, neither is he liable for recommending specific products to me. If a product doesn't match my specification that he recommended, then I return the product. They stock products in their store and help customers to match the products that will fit the specification for the job.

If you walked into the Plumbing store and gave him your specification and he said "im sorry I could be held liable if I recommend a product to you, because all the manufacturers that sell products that don't fit your specification might sue me, you better walk around the store and measure your own pipes" You would probably walk out of the store.

Or you visit any e-commerce website, you want a specific item, you use the filter tools to find that Item. Are you telling me that Amazon can be sued by manufacturers for displaying a Blue lampshade instead of Red one because one of the companies might not stock Red. No, becaaue that is how shopping works, you whitle down the list of products by filtering the results to your specification.

You can already refund any item in steam asking as it has been played less than 2 hours or was purchased in less than 14 days.

Plumbing items are all standardized. If you walk in and ask for 14 feet of 4 inch pipe that is 2mm thick with (3) 90 degree elbow joints and (1) 45 degree elbow joint, than that is what you will get. But see your issue here is that you need to memorize all this to tell him or at least write it down.

If you get a plumber in, and they put in the wrong pipe, you hold them liable.

If you go to the plumbing store get all those parts, but the 14 foot pipe is actually 3.8 inch instead of the 4 inch you need, the 90 degree elbows are 85, 93 and 75 degrees and the 45 is 48 degrees you would go and complain. You go for them again, this time the pipe is 3.6 inch, the elbows are 91, 83, 77, 43 degrees.... you complain again, you get new pipes and again they are all different sizes because every time you get new parts they keep changing.

You would held the store liable for this and want your money back right? Well as explained many times already and this will be the last time in this thread...

Computer hardware is not identical. If you bought 2 computers worth of identical parts, put them together at the same time and then run benchmarks on both at exactly the same time with the same software running in the background (just the OS and the benchmarking software, you would get 2 different numbers every single time you run the benchmarking software. And not only will they be different from each other, every time you run it, the numbers will be slightly different.

A 3080 from ASUS is not the same as a 3080 from MSI.

2 AMD 5950x's will run slightly differently.

64gigs of DDR4 3200 ram from Corsair will not perform exactly the same as 64gigs of DDR4 3200 ram from G.SKILL.

A system running Nod antivirus will run differently than a system running Mcafee antivirus

A system running Speedfan will run differently than a system not running Speedfan.


There are just too many things to calculate for it to be accurate and all it would take is for Valve to screw up once and tell people that a developers game will not work on their system, causing the developer to lose money when in fact the game would work on those peoples systems.



So I'm now done with this. You keep going around in circles and you keep changing the goal post. We have told you why it has never happened on Steam & why this will never happen on Steam. If you can't accept those reasons than there is nothing we can say. All you can do is wait for them to do it... but you will be waiting an eternity because its never going to happen.

Goodbye.

[Mad Scientist]

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

So what your saying

Never start with this, this shows bad faith.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

The same as if you were wanting to buy a small TV from an Ecommerce website. You could either manually go through every TV and check the Size or you could use the filter on the side of the website to filter all TVs < "Less than 40 inch" to find what you are looking for.

That is not the same whatsoever and you know it.
That's a SIZE filter, for PHYSICAL SIZE. That is nowhere near comparing overall hardware and how it will perform to a game. This is another example of being so desperate to want to push this idea that you use incomparable examples. Disingenuous entirely.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

When I walk into a Plumbing store and I give the person behind the counter my specifications, he isn't liable for matching the products instore to my specification, neither is he liable for recommending specific products to me.

You're giving a size specification to receive something for that size, that is not comparable whatsoever for performance of all hardware vs the expected load. Another incomparable deflection.

If a product doesn't match my specification that he recommended, then I return the product.[/quote]
Physical and digital products that are entirely different and have entirely different rules, of which you can be banned for abusing the refund system on Steam. Similarly; physical stores can also remove you from having refunds if they believe you're abusing it.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

You can already refund any item in steam asking as it has been played less than 2 hours or was purchased in less than 14 days.

It's not infinite and it has an abuse clause, of which it's not designed to demo games. You can receive a permanent ban from refunds.

Gwarsbane님이 먼저 게시:

Plumbing items are all standardized. If you walk in and ask for 14 feet of 4 inch pipe that is 2mm thick with (3) 90 degree elbow joints and (1) 45 degree elbow joint, than that is what you will get. But see your issue here is that you need to memorize all this to tell him or at least write it down.

Gwarsbane님이 먼저 게시:

Computer hardware is not identical. If you bought 2 computers worth of identical parts, put them together at the same time and then run benchmarks on both at exactly the same time with the same software running in the background (just the OS and the benchmarking software, you would get 2 different numbers every single time you run the benchmarking software. And not only will they be different from each other, every time you run it, the numbers will be slightly different.

I've given this dishonest OP examples which are constantly ignored, and the last time I pointed out how they have no idea what they're talking about and how even a 3090 can have the performance of an entry level video card depending on the hardware of the system such as a weak cpu, they seemed to not handle it very well before coming back with these dishonest incomparable examples.

Gwarsbane님이 먼저 게시:

So I'm now done with this. You keep going around in circles and you keep changing the goal post. We have told you why it has never happened on Steam & why this will never happen on Steam. If you can't accept those reasons than there is nothing we can say. All you can do is wait for them to do it... but you will be waiting an eternity because its never going to happen.

Goodbye.

It's difficult to take an individual seriously when they're so extremely desperate to the point of being extremely dishonest in examples. The solutions have been given, they're quick and easy, the OP barely plays any amount of games compared to the supposed "900" aka 608 games and utilizing open information from the OP to point at and show dishonesty has resulted in them privatizing their profile due to pointing out that clearly, they have no intention of having that many games installed, barely play anything, have significantly less than claimed, and are constantly deceiving and misleading other users with exaggeration to push the idea. This OP is nowhere near honest nor can handle the fact that the idea is awful, has liability, and they have short and easy resolutions that have existed for a while.

23 games the past 2 weeks, average of 0.3-0.4 hours per 2 weeks, most games as 0.2 Hours each - this OP is definitely not going to play 608 games over a year, let alone have them installed even with their NAS. The most highly played thing was 22-24 Hours of SteamVR which shows an immensely limited potential for compatible or installed games since that is the only realistic thing being played. The total profile hours was immensely low as well showing the likelyhood of having 608 games being installed or even wanting to as nearly 0. OP is not being honest here and is just exaggerating everything out of desperation to push the idea while very easy solutions exist.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Y'know I used to buy the "Valve can't have this kind of liability" reason, which justified not hosting such information on Steam, alongside the fact that "can I run it" sites exist.

But, given how Steam handles tags, which frequently include inaccuracies anyway, I can imagine a database of user-generated, developer/publisher-managed information about what works on what setups and what doesn't.

[Gwarsbane]

Quint the Alligator Snapper님이 먼저 게시:

Y'know I used to buy the "Valve can't have this kind of liability" reason, which justified not hosting such information on Steam, alongside the fact that "can I run it" sites exist.

But, given how Steam handles tags, which frequently include inaccuracies anyway, I can imagine a database of user-generated, developer/publisher-managed information about what works on what setups and what doesn't.

Would you actually trust any information provided by users about how good or bad a game runs?

Technically Dead By Daylight runs on my system and by technically I mean I get 1 frame per alt-tab. Its not even a frame per second. It shows one screen, I have to click on something, then alt tab out then go back in for it to switch to what ever I click.

So I can say it runs on an amd phenom ii x4 965 black edition cpu with 16 gigs of DDR3 ram, 7200 RPM hard drive with an RX 580 8gig GPU.

Its not suppose to, least not the CPU, but it does. At least technically it does. It doesn't crash, my CPU/GPU doesn't start getting really hot, it just hits 1 frame per alt-tab. (While this game was on my wishlist at one time, I didn't buy it, I won it, had I known it would perform so badly on this thing I wouldn't have even joined the giveaway for it)

Valve would have to make some sort of benchmarking took for each game that could be run while in the game, and then auto submitted with detailed info about whats in the system, but even then its going to miss a lot of things like all the software running in the background, all the stuff that the player closed off to get things running better and lots of other info.

Even then, I doubt the developers/publishers would want something like that because of all the stuff it will miss.

Oh and while the tags are user made and sometimes inaccurate, the developers and Valve can remove them when they are. The argument to remove my computer from the database of working hardware for Dead By Daylight is a little harder because all they will have is "works with these parts" Unless again its all automated benchmark stuff that no one has the ability to mess with, but again there is all the stuff it misses...

So it just keep going in circles on stuff.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Gwarsbane님이 먼저 게시:

Quint the Alligator Snapper님이 먼저 게시:

Y'know I used to buy the "Valve can't have this kind of liability" reason, which justified not hosting such information on Steam, alongside the fact that "can I run it" sites exist.

But, given how Steam handles tags, which frequently include inaccuracies anyway, I can imagine a database of user-generated, developer/publisher-managed information about what works on what setups and what doesn't.

Would you actually trust any information provided by users about how good or bad a game runs?

No more or less than I'd trust the information provided by any other rando on the internet who says that their rig runs a given game. And...

Gwarsbane님이 먼저 게시:

Technically Dead By Daylight runs on my system and by technically I mean I get 1 frame per alt-tab. Its not even a frame per second. It shows one screen, I have to click on something, then alt tab out then go back in for it to switch to what ever I click.

See, if there's a box letting them elaborate, that's more useful. Sure, some people could lie, but people generally prefer to share their actual experiences if you give them the chance.

Gwarsbane님이 먼저 게시:

Oh and while the tags are user made and sometimes inaccurate, the developers and Valve can remove them when they are. The argument to remove my computer from the database of working hardware for Dead By Daylight is a little harder because all they will have is "works with these parts" Unless again its all automated benchmark stuff that no one has the ability to mess with, but again there is all the stuff it misses...

And this is why I said the developer should be able to moderate a space covering what works or doesn't work -- such as by highlighting player-generated reports that the developers think are representative, or even by removing ones that seem to be inaccurate. But at the end of the day Steam will show the player who generated them, and so any such report is not on the developer.

While this isn't a perfect solution, it'll be useful enough, and there are a variety of other imperfect but still useful features on the internet, even on Steam itself.

[[EW] Mitsie]

Gwarsbane님이 먼저 게시:

Quint the Alligator Snapper님이 먼저 게시:

Y'know I used to buy the "Valve can't have this kind of liability" reason, which justified not hosting such information on Steam, alongside the fact that "can I run it" sites exist.

But, given how Steam handles tags, which frequently include inaccuracies anyway, I can imagine a database of user-generated, developer/publisher-managed information about what works on what setups and what doesn't.

Would you actually trust any information provided by users about how good or bad a game runs?

Technically Dead By Daylight runs on my system and by technically I mean I get 1 frame per alt-tab. Its not even a frame per second. It shows one screen, I have to click on something, then alt tab out then go back in for it to switch to what ever I click.

So I can say it runs on an amd phenom ii x4 965 black edition cpu with 16 gigs of DDR3 ram, 7200 RPM hard drive with an RX 580 8gig GPU.

Its not suppose to, least not the CPU, but it does. At least technically it does. It doesn't crash, my CPU/GPU doesn't start getting really hot, it just hits 1 frame per alt-tab. (While this game was on my wishlist at one time, I didn't buy it, I won it, had I known it would perform so badly on this thing I wouldn't have even joined the giveaway for it)

Valve would have to make some sort of benchmarking took for each game that could be run while in the game, and then auto submitted with detailed info about whats in the system, but even then its going to miss a lot of things like all the software running in the background, all the stuff that the player closed off to get things running better and lots of other info.

Even then, I doubt the developers/publishers would want something like that because of all the stuff it will miss.

Oh and while the tags are user made and sometimes inaccurate, the developers and Valve can remove them when they are. The argument to remove my computer from the database of working hardware for Dead By Daylight is a little harder because all they will have is "works with these parts" Unless again its all automated benchmark stuff that no one has the ability to mess with, but again there is all the stuff it misses...

So it just keep going in circles on stuff.

That's why I pointed out that Steam Overlay has a FPS counter built into Steam. I'm sure they could get data based on the frame counter as well as some sort of opt-in, in game benchmarking tool, cross referencing the information collected with GPU Min/Average/Max from Passmark, running it through an algorithm and maybe using AI to constantly tweak the algorithm used to measure game performance on multiple systems.

Ive been looking through the PassMark site and every model of graphics card has a performance score. If you are not bothered about perfection and just want a rough estimate of what could play on your machine,.
You could web scrape and Compile a database of PassMark GPU averages for all 1200 GPUs available on the market, (I noticed an outdated one on Toms Hardware)
Automatically web scrape the store pages for all your games to get the Minimum requirements.
Run a pregmatch to find and match the minimum requirements GPU against the database to get a minimum requirements PassMark score for the game.
Then run a database query to find all games that have a higher value in either CPU, RAM or GPU Pass Mark score than your current Hardware.
If they do match, compile the list of Non-Compatible games then Array Intersect the two lists to remove the Non-Compatible games leaving you with the Compatible games list.
You could then write a script like the one used in SteamROM manager to create a Library category in Steam automatically using the Device name retrieved from SystemInformation class as the category name, with only the compatible games in the list.
This could be a single click program to instantly auto filter all your games based on hardware.

If you compiled the min/average/max fields for each GPU, you could even have options to be lenient or strict on the performance cut off point for each GPU Pass Mark score.

While not the ideal solution, at least it would give you a rough estimate to games that can be played on your system based on the information provided by the publisher.

Then if a game was slightly sluggish, tipping under the 30fps mark, you could give your system a little nudge by using AMD FSR Lite within the Lossless Upscale app. It would give you a margin for error but would definitely strip out the very highly demanding games, that your system simply will not be able to run at all.

[[EW] Mitsie]

That's why I was saying if steam had a sort if opt-in, in game benchmarking tool, it could find the game hardware performance cut of point for a game based on all players of that game then offer information to a customer on the Store Front, as a warning, based on Hardware. For instance, if Call of Duty Vanguard has a minimum performance score of 1950 and im using an Intel G640 which has a performance score of 520, I need a GPU 4x more powerful just to hit the minimum specification. If everybody below the performance score of 1950 requests a refund, notifying customers using some sort of traffic light performance system could save Steam a lot of time on support requests with potential refunds.

Pointing customers in the correct direction based on their specification is not liable. It would probably result in developers of AAA titles to put more effort into tweaking the game to work well on lower-end systems to get more customers based on the performance rating.

The same as when you choose to set up an Android app and you target a specific SDK, Google tells you exactly how many devices your app will target based on their user data. Valve could also pre-benchmark a game as they put it in the store. And give the developer information based on how well the game performs against the Steam User base Hardware performance.

They could provide the developer with:
"This game can potentially target: 2,655,985 customers based on performance"

[Nx Machina]

Again Valve will not create a tool and open themselves to liability from both users and the developers, publishers.

Developers, publishers list min, rec specs to remove liability from themselves.

It is for you to know your hardware or you to create a tool, release it for public use and then we can sue you when a game will not run when your tool said it would based on our specs.

[[EW] Mitsie]

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

Again Valve will not create a tool and open themselves to liability from both users and the developers, publishers.

Developers, publishers list min, rec specs to remove liability from themselves.

It is for you to know your hardware or you to create a tool, release it for public use and then we can sue you when a game will not run when your tool said it would based on our specs.

So what your saying is the courts should be full of cases where customers bought a game on Steam and the developers set a minimum system requirements and your Hardware is higher but doesn't work. By your account, the developer would be liable if my Hardware doesn't work even though the minimum specs says it should?

By your admission if the developer was liable, there would be built in hardware limiters within the games, stopping anyone with a lower hardware specification playing the game at all. Developers wouldn't put themselves in a situation where they were to be held liable by a class action law suit.

The law states a product must be fit for purpose, and if it isn't, the seller should provide a full refund as recourse. Steam does provide this refund, fulfilling the legal requirements. A minimum specification isn't a legal binding agreement between two parties.

Good to see so many bedroom lawyers and law experts coming out of the woodwork.

[Nx Machina]

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

So what your saying is the courts should be full of cases where customers bought a game on Steam and the developers set a minimum system requirements and your Hardware is higher but doesn't work. By your account, the developer would be liable if my Hardware doesn't work even though the minimum specs says it should?

The minimum and recommended specs do not guarantee a game will work on your machine they are a guideline only. If your higher spec machine will not run a game whether it be minimum or not you need to sort out the issues on your machine because plenty of others are playing the game you cannot or have no issues with it.

Example - https://steamcommunity.com/app/480490/discussions/0/5913784177864902615/

I do not have a 3060ti and have no performance issues with the game.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

By your admission if the developer was liable, there would be built in hardware limiters within the games, stopping anyone with a lower hardware specification playing the game at all. Developers wouldn't put themselves in a situation where they were to be held liable by a class action law suit.

I stated very clearly the developer of a game would be liable for claiming it would run on your machine, hence why they list minimum, recommended specs. Secondly the developer is not liable for users overclocking their hardware, having faulty graphic drivers, a malware, virus infection on their PC etc causing issues with the software.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

The law states a product must be fit for purpose, and if it isn't, the seller should provide a full refund as recourse. Steam does provide this refund, fulfilling the legal requirements. A minimum specification isn't a legal binding agreement between two parties.

Others running the game make it fit for purpose.

Secondly you missed off the following when stating the law and only referenced refunds.

The Consumer Rights Act will introduce specific rules entitling shoppers to a REPAIR or REPLACEMENT when digital products are faulty.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rights-for-consumers-when-buying-digital-content


The problem is you have to prove the product is faulty and when others are playing the same game it would not constitute as been faulty. Your hardware for example may be faulty causing the issue.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

Good to see so many bedroom lawyers and law experts coming out of the woodwork.

Odd comment when you relied on the law to make a point.


You can continue to argue but Valve will not implement a tool to do what you ask and neither will developers commit to running on your very specific hardware.

Secondly if you take time to realise in-game benchmarks are flawed you would understand why a tool would be worthless. For example - the Division in-game benchmark stutters on my PC yet i have no issues running the game at all.


You not knowing your hardware, does not constitute others should do the work for you.

And finally as previously stated - There are multiple factors which affect PC's such as botched Windows updates, overzealous antivirus, bad drivers, failing hardware, background processes, windows indexing etc.

[[EW] Mitsie]

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

So what your saying is the courts should be full of cases where customers bought a game on Steam and the developers set a minimum system requirements and your Hardware is higher but doesn't work. By your account, the developer would be liable if my Hardware doesn't work even though the minimum specs says it should?

The minimum and recommended specs do not guarantee a game will work on your machine they are a guideline only. If your higher spec machine will not run a game whether it be minimum or not you need to sort out the issues on your machine because plenty of others are playing the game you cannot. or have no issues with it.

Example - https://steamcommunity.com/app/480490/discussions/0/5913784177864902615/

I do not have a 3060ti and have no performance issues with the game.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

By your admission if the developer was liable, there would be built in hardware limiters within the games, stopping anyone with a lower hardware specification playing the game at all. Developers wouldn't put themselves in a situation where they were to be held liable by a class action law suit.

I stated very clearly the developer of a game would be liable for claiming it would run on your machine, hence why they list minimum, recommended specs. Secondly the developer is not liable for users overclocking their hardware, having faulty graphic drivers, a malware, virus infection on their PC etc causing issues with the software.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

The law states a product must be fit for purpose, and if it isn't, the seller should provide a full refund as recourse. Steam does provide this refund, fulfilling the legal requirements. A minimum specification isn't a legal binding agreement between two parties.

Others running the game make it fit for purpose.

Secondly you missed off the following when stating the law and only referenced refunds.

The Consumer Rights Act will introduce specific rules entitling shoppers to a REPAIR or REPLACEMENT when digital products are faulty.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rights-for-consumers-when-buying-digital-content


The problem is you have to prove the product is faulty and when others are playing the same game it would not constitute as been faulty. Your hardware for example may be faulty causing the issue.

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

Good to see so many bedroom lawyers and law experts coming out of the woodwork.

Odd comment when you relied on the law to make a point.


You can continue to argue but Valve will not implement a tool to do what you ask and neither will developers commit to running on your very specific hardware.

You not knowing your hardware, does not constitute others should do the work for you.

And as previously stated - There are multiple factors which affect PC's such as botched Windows updates, overzealous antivirus, bad drivers, failing hardware, background processes, windows indexing etc.

You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Fit for purpose when buying a product, means fit for your purpose. When you buy a Oven from a retailer, you buy it for your purpose, not for the bloke at the end of the street. If it doesn't fit your requirements when you come to fit it. You return it for a full refund.

Just because it fits in the kitchen of the bloke at the end of the street means nothing. It's not fit for YOUR purpose. That's what your consumer rights are for.

Imagine walking into a Retail store and saying "Can I return this jumper it doesn't fit" for the store clerk to turn around and say, "My uncle has one of them and it fits him fine, so you can't have a refund" 😂

[Nx Machina]

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Fit for purpose when buying a product, means fit for your purpose. When you buy a Oven from a retailer, you buy it for your purpose, not for the bloke at the end of the street. If it doesn't fit your requirements when you come to fit it. You return it for a full refund.

I was born in the UK, i live in the UK, i work in advertising, knowing consumer law is part and parcel of the job.

An oven is not a digital product. Others playing the same game you cannot does not constitute a faulty product simply because you decided to try to run Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition on a PC which does not have an RTX card (required) or any other hardware you have.

You want a tool, create a tool.

[[EW] Mitsie]

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Fit for purpose when buying a product, means fit for your purpose. When you buy a Oven from a retailer, you buy it for your purpose, not for the bloke at the end of the street. If it doesn't fit your requirements when you come to fit it. You return it for a full refund.

I was born in the UK, i live in the UK, i work in advertising, knowing consumer law is part and parcel of the job.

An oven is not a digital product. Others playing the same game you cannot does not constitute a faulty product simply because you decided to try to run Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition on a PC which does not have an RTX card (required) or any other hardware you have.

You want a tool, create a tool.

A Faulty product is not a product "Fit for purpose" Considering you work in Consumer law, you seem to know very little about it.

Like I've just pointed out returning a jumper to the retailer because it doesn't fit, doesn't fall under a faulty product, it falls under a product not fit for your purpose. The jumper still works, it just doesn't fit you..

[Frostbringer]

EW Mitsie님이 먼저 게시:

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

The minimum and recommended specs do not guarantee a game will work on your machine they are a guideline only. If your higher spec machine will not run a game whether it be minimum or not you need to sort out the issues on your machine because plenty of others are playing the game you cannot. or have no issues with it.

Example - https://steamcommunity.com/app/480490/discussions/0/5913784177864902615/

I do not have a 3060ti and have no performance issues with the game.



I stated very clearly the developer of a game would be liable for claiming it would run on your machine, hence why they list minimum, recommended specs. Secondly the developer is not liable for users overclocking their hardware, having faulty graphic drivers, a malware, virus infection on their PC etc causing issues with the software.



Others running the game make it fit for purpose.

Secondly you missed off the following when stating the law and only referenced refunds.

The Consumer Rights Act will introduce specific rules entitling shoppers to a REPAIR or REPLACEMENT when digital products are faulty.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rights-for-consumers-when-buying-digital-content


The problem is you have to prove the product is faulty and when others are playing the same game it would not constitute as been faulty. Your hardware for example may be faulty causing the issue.



Odd comment when you relied on the law to make a point.


You can continue to argue but Valve will not implement a tool to do what you ask and neither will developers commit to running on your very specific hardware.

You not knowing your hardware, does not constitute others should do the work for you.

And as previously stated - There are multiple factors which affect PC's such as botched Windows updates, overzealous antivirus, bad drivers, failing hardware, background processes, windows indexing etc.

You clearly dont have a clue what you are talking about. Fit for purpose when buying a product, means fit for your purpose. When you buy a Oven from a retailer, you buy it for your purpose, not for the bloke at the end of the street. If it doesn't fit your requirements when you come to fit it. You return it for a full refund.

Just because it fits in the kitchen of the bloke at the end of the street means nothing. It's not fit for YOUR purpose. That's what your consumer rights are for.

Comparing digital to physical objects is a bit off topic since you can’t refund a games license once you activate it. It’s you not knowing enough about your own hardware.

But if you want to try that angle.
Who’s fault is it if you buy an oven but it’s too big to fit in your house?
Yours or the sellers?
And what if you keep buying/returning multiple ovens since you refuse to find out what fits in your house?
Do you thinks sellers don’t have any rights for customers abusing return policies since it costs sellers money for every returned item.