Mixed Steam Reviews

[Dtomis]

I know that theres not alot of people who actually do steam reviews, but it would be nice to have a mixed review option. sometimes i dont think the game is outright bad or outright good. so i just have to review it based off of wether i liked it a bit more or disliked it a bit more.

[Menzagitat]

Start_Running původně napsal:

Menzagitat původně napsal:

Valve wants to sell the game, not to give you an accurate score.

The scoeres are accurate. They just aren't measuring what you think, or what you want them to.

Two things I want :)
- to be able to trust the review system more
- to send the bad developers, who deserve to fail, to the Epic store
These two points might sometime pull in different directions.

[Nx Machina]

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

It's not that it's complex question; it's that it's the wrong question to ask, when the way people use it and the way Steam represents it is to interpret it as positive and negative.

It is the correct question because you yourself answered that question each time you wrote your reviews and validated the system by recommending games or not.

It is only the incorrect answer because you want, need, desire it to be something else

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

This is an irrelevant ad hominem.

Ad Hominen - directed against a person, rather than against what that person says:

No singular person was mentioned in the quote below.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Of course those who want options such as neutral or mixed literally believe all other reviews are worthless because they need to find deeper meaning.

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Are you being a contrarian again?

Do you have anything to add to the discussion beyond an actual ad hominen.

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Valve themselves designed Steam to use the terms "positive" and "negative. This is also consistent with how other people use and understand it.

Your interpretation is consistent with neither of these.

What does this have to do with naming the forums - discussion forums?

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Who's "WE"? And since when did you get to decide that seeking change (on a Suggestions forum, no less) is wrong?

When you decided "we" cannot express an opinion on this discussion forum because you only require affirmation of your viewpoint.

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And that tool can work better by including a neutral option.

Neutral - do you recommend this game or not? Shrug = no answer, = worthless.

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And this also means that Steam reviews can't include the perspective of people who've played the same game elsewhere. Steam's system is not faultless.

Did they get the game on Steam via purchase or key? No, hence why they cannot review on Steam.

Secondly Metacritic IS flawed because you do NOT need to own a game to review it, hence review BOMBING of games like Cyberpunk 2077.

[Start_Running]

Menzagitat původně napsal:

Start_Running původně napsal:

The scoeres are accurate. They just aren't measuring what you think, or what you want them to.

Two things I want :)
- to be able to trust the review system more
- to send the bad developers, who deserve to fail, to the Epic store :devilskiss:
These two points might sometime pull in different directions.

Yes. Because once you realize you want to use the system improperly...you have to consider that others are doing the same thing. And in such cases, no system can solve your problem.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

It's not that it's complex question; it's that it's the wrong question to ask, when the way people use it and the way Steam represents it is to interpret it as positive and negative.

It is the correct question because you yourself answered that question each time you wrote your reviews and validated the system by recommending games or not.

It is only incorrect answer because you want, need, desire it to be something else

And the nail has been soundly struck,
To say someone asks the wrong question implies that you know their intent, and needs better than they themselves. It implies you have som insight they lack.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And that tool can work better by including a neutral option.

Neutral - do you recommend this game or not? Shrug = no answer, = worthless.

The question is 'for whom' would it work better. Valve has kept the system unchanged and its not like they didn't consider other forms. They settled on this one and the fact that among Simply asking people to take that extra mental step in evaluation does seem to work wellmany gamers Steam Reviews carry greater weight than than Metacritic, GoG, or IGN reviews.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And this also means that Steam reviews can't include the perspective of people who've played the same game elsewhere. Steam's system is not faultless.

Did they get the game on Steam via purchase or key? No, hence why they cannot review on Steam.

Secondly Metacritic IS flawed because you do NOT need to own a game to review it, hence review BOMBING of games like Cyberpunk 2077.

In short. Valve only lets those who they can verify have owned and played they game, review the game.
THat is literally one of its greatest strengths.

[Menzagitat]

Start_Running původně napsal:

Menzagitat původně napsal:

Two things I want :)
- to be able to trust the review system more
- to send the bad developers, who deserve to fail, to the Epic store
These two points might sometime pull in different directions.

Yes. Because once you realize you want to use the system improperly...you have to consider that others are doing the same thing. And in such cases, no system can solve your problem.

The system which kills the incompetents faster is better

[Start_Running]

Menzagitat původně napsal:

Start_Running původně napsal:

Yes. Because once you realize you want to use the system improperly...you have to consider that others are doing the same thing. And in such cases, no system can solve your problem.

The system which kills the incompetents faster is better :devilskiss:

That would be the currentt systtem since in theory it is harder to get a yes than it is to get a no.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

It's not that it's complex question; it's that it's the wrong question to ask, when the way people use it and the way Steam represents it is to interpret it as positive and negative.

It is the correct question because you yourself answered that question each time you wrote your reviews and validated the system by recommending games or not.

It is only the incorrect answer because you want, need, desire it to be something else

There goes your mantra for opposing suggestions again...

And just because people answer a question does not mean it's the correct question to ask.

People using the system does not mean the system is working well for them. You keep on thinking that just because the status quo exists therefore that means it is optimal, which is a huge fallacy.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

This is an irrelevant ad hominem.

Ad Hominen - directed against a person, rather than against what that person says:

No singular person was mentioned in the quote below.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Of course those who want options such as neutral or mixed literally believe all other reviews are worthless because they need to find deeper meaning.

You don't have to mention a specific person to make an ad hominem attack. You only need to criticize their motive rather than discussing the actual suggestion, for it to be that.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Are you being a contrarian again?

Do you have anything to add to the discussion beyond an actual ad hominen.

You may want to read my entire post.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Valve themselves designed Steam to use the terms "positive" and "negative. This is also consistent with how other people use and understand it.

Your interpretation is consistent with neither of these.

What does this have to do with naming the forums - discussion forums?

I thought the topic of this thread was the proposal for a mixed status for Steam reviews, not the naming of the forums. Are you trying to make this about whether or not you're allowed to post again?

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Who's "WE"? And since when did you get to decide that seeking change (on a Suggestions forum, no less) is wrong?

When you decided "we" cannot express an opinion on this discussion forum because you only require affirmation of your viewpoint.

I never decided that anyone cannot express an opinion. I just pointed out that you, specifically you, don't get to decide that seeking change is wrong.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And that tool can work better by including a neutral option.

Neutral - do you recommend this game or not? Shrug = no answer, = worthless.

If so, then have the review status discounted from the rating count and then let the player type up their text review, because that text is worth a lot.

Meanwhile, I am not sure why you need people to recommend or anti-recommend the game to you for a review to be useful.

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And this also means that Steam reviews can't include the perspective of people who've played the same game elsewhere. Steam's system is not faultless.

Did they get the game on Steam via purchase or key? No, hence why they cannot review on Steam.

Secondly Metacritic IS flawed because you do NOT need to own a game to review it, hence review BOMBING of games like Cyberpunk 2077.

I know why they can't review on Steam. That just means that their opinions don't get counted, despite the fact that they may be relevant and useful to people on Steam. Like I said, Steam's system is not without its drawbacks.

Start_Running původně napsal:

And the nail has been soundly struck,
To say someone asks the wrong question implies that you know their intent, and needs better than they themselves. It implies you have som insight they lack.

Actually, it shows that one understands that they are looking for input (by setting up a Suggestions forum) and many other people have stated their intent and needs quite clearly.

Start_Running původně napsal:

Nx Machina původně napsal:

Neutral - do you recommend this game or not? Shrug = no answer, = worthless.

The question is 'for whom' would it work better. Valve has kept the system unchanged and its not like they didn't consider other forms. They settled on this one and the fact that among Simply asking people to take that extra mental step in evaluation does seem to work wellmany gamers Steam Reviews carry greater weight than than Metacritic, GoG, or IGN reviews.

The irony is that you claim that forcing an up-or-down recommendation is an "extra mental step" while clicking either button needs no such step to take place, as the wonderposts of reviews (that you defend only because they have a positive or negative rating) quite clearly demonstrate.

Also, Valve has already changed the review system before. It used to be known as the recommendation system. And it used to not even have ratings.

Also, you may want to broaden your horizons a bit, because it turns out that Steam reviews aren't the only reviews people make use of. Heck, Metacritic, which you decry as a joke, even has a place for it integrated into the Steam client itself. It even persisted despite the major UI update.