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#2 - I thought they already do filtering of external sites, most likely the scammers are just making newer ones
#3 - Are you referring to the steamid in the name ? steamid64
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamID
That can be there for a whole lot of reasons
#4 -
Why not make the group invite-only / private ?
#1 - I don't understand what problems people have with CAPTCHAs. It takes a couple of seconds to solve them. They add extra layers of security and make life harder for scammers.
#2 - Their phishing message format has been the exact same since Death Stranding launched on July 2020. They're promising "prizes" and clearly stealing new accounts every day, and then using those accounts to scam even more users.
I didn't pay attention, however, if the actual links changed or not. Some moderators are banning those bots (SOMETIMES) after a couple of days or a few hours best case scenario, especially when we report en masse, but this process could easily be automated.
#3 - No, that's not what I'm talking about. There are bots originating from other bots that were assigned sequential usernames. These have spammed the same messages in the past. Some of them are unfortunately still in the group, and are easy to find: e.g., "7651...", "7652...", "7653...", etc. I've personally blocked them all.
#4 - I've created an Invite only group for Death Stranding for this purpose, where everyone is able to ban spammers, but after a while VERY IRONICALLY my invite link was no longer allowed in the official group, while scammers spam every single day!
1. Sometimes people have browser issues. Script blockers like the NoScript addon and Captcha script having names that lack clarification what it's for. Plus as said in post #1 some Bots can solve them just as easily if not faster than really people so it kinda loses it's effectiveness.
2. Well if users wouldn't be so stupid to believe all the ♥♥♥♥ scammers and phishing sites wouldn't be milking users. Besides the usual www.scamsite.com with the bait advertisement they'll just start with ways to circumvent filters.
www(dot)scamsite(dot)com
www(.)scamsite(.)com
or any other creative examples.
No matter what Valve or any other business does the scammers/spammers/phishers will adapt and users will continue being stupid and gullible. Basic internet safety is all that's needed. DRILL that into their heads and all these scam/phishing links and spam would be pointless because there would be no more easy victims.
3. But those names are also used by Steam Support when then disallow a users name. User has the name FUSTEAM or soimething else and Steam support wipes it replacing it with numbers the user can change for x amount of time. This scammer bots could very well be using the same number combination. So you're asking to ban people that could have the same 84325793827539287 random number.
4. What about links to YT for say PC building tips/problem solving
Or link https://www.scamadviser.com/ that I link alot to hijacked victims as a way to check sites in the future?
Or links to instructions on how to do certain things that is not on Steam. For example Pre-written guides on how to do X in windows/linux/Mac/Apple/Android. An exteernal link to a guide, possible with images, can be much quicker and easier than having to write it all out.
Or links to https://isthereanydeal.com/ or something
Links to Uplay, Gog, EA,Blizzard or anything else
Stopping the problem by preventing external links will just piss people of and it want change a thing biggest scammers and the like will just use circumvention techniques like I described in point 2. Except now Every user trying to post a link for non spam/scam/phish links will also have to circumvent the filter. Nothing solved just more inconvenience for legitimate links
FIX the stupid gullible greedy ignorant users and the scammers would have no victims to exploit.
Valve impemented Steam Guard, Great, it didn't take very long for phishing sites to add a ask for Steam Guard code and users willingly gave them the code. I
(1) CAPTCHAs do nothing but tick off humans. Bots blow past them easily. How do we know this? Valve already tried using CAPTCHAs to stop bots. After a couple of hours at most, the bots were already reprogrammed to do CAPTCHAs and we humans had to suffer with them for a week before they were removed for another method (5 dollar min to be able to add people)
(2) Stops them for all of 5 seconds as they create a new account.
(3) No they are not all bots. Lots of people just go by the steam number which, depending on when they signed up, would start with those numbers. But even still, they than start making bots that start mixing and matching names of people on the forums already. So rather pointless.
(4) No thank you, I share stuff with my friends all the time, this would be very annoying.
What would be best for the steam community is if people were not foolish and give away their information to some stranger or some website.
One method to stop most, but not all bot accounts would be to block all new users who have not spent 5 bucks on steam from any kind of interacting with humans, but Valve really can't do that, because if you are new and trying to find out information about a game, you need to be able to interact with other humans to find the information you need. This would drive people away from Steam.
So again we're back to, whats best for the community is smarter people that at least read the pinned topics.
1. It would at least make life harder for those scammers. And I'm not sure how a bot could read painted codes or select pictures of traffic lights, for example. It'd make their lives significantly harder. There are ways to add exceptions to the scripts you're mentioning.
2. All I'm asking Valve is to do something instead of nothing. We can't just blame the victims for being naive because we assume that scammers will always adapt. Ok, let them adapt, so should we, but doing nothing is unacceptable at this point!
3. I'm just talking about those who are still in the group and have already spammed.
4. By allowing only steam-related links within the unmoderated group chat you could still link people to a Steam Discussion/Thread where those links are allowed. I've noticed that it's significantly easier to report and get someone banned from Steam Discussions, because those spaces are better moderated than group chats, which are currently a spam heaven instead. So, external links should only be allowed where moderators are present.
Even the one thats just a check box, was broken a long time ago.
And you know how they break the ones with letters and stuff? OCR software... Which is funny because they use those answers from the CAPTCHA tests to teach AIs to make OCR and AIs better.... which then makes the bots better at answering the CAPTCHAs....
You might want to watch this video from the guys over at Linus Tech Tips about CAPTCHAs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEAK5V3oI8Y
Just because you don't understand why or doesn't not change the FACT it can be done. Basic Google search, first result
https://www.google.com/search?q=Can+bots+beat+Captcha&client=firefox-b-d&ei=ew0-YdHZH_2BhbIP9dCx8AY&oq=Can+bots+beat+Captcha&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgAEEM6BwgAEEcQsAM6BggAEBYQHkoFCEASATFKBAhBGABQoy9YlzBgqzZoAXABeACAAT2IAXmSAQEymAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiRg-jJ0fnyAhX9QEEAHXVoDG4Q4dUDCA0&uact=5
No what you are asking for is Vale to implement something because the HUMAN can't see the links are ♥♥♥♥ or bother checking them first. Ban a link and they just circumvent the filter as I already highlighted early. It's not a new concept spammers have been using those exact methods to circumvent filter. Nothing and I mean NOTHING Valve can introduce the can prevent spammers adapting a link to bypass the filter. And stupid ********* users still adapt the www (DOT) YourStupidScamSite (DOT)Com to www.YourStupidScamSite.Com and use it.
You do realise more the one person can have the same profile name right? Usernames are unique but profile names are not?
For example Search for my name. Some have added ♥♥♥♥ but several LOOK exactly the same
https://steamcommunity.com/search/users/#text=Supafly
[/quote]
And you are IGNORING the fact spammer would just use the circumventation techniques mentioned already multiple times. All the would do is PISS users of at having to create a thread to post a legitimate link, post in a thread to link legitimate link or circumvent the ******** filter to post it without the other ♥♥♥♥.
NOTHING will stop spammers, scammers or hijackers. NOTHING. At best Valve may slow them for a day or 10 minute. The one thing for certain is it will PISS the users of more.. WHY? because STUPID IDIOTS can't learn basic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ online safety.
Report the problem accounts ignore /block and more on
Doing nothing just because "it might not work" is not acceptable! I'm suggesting solutions here, while you are just blaming victims and accept defeat.
It's like saying: "Don't put a new lock on that door because there are already ways to break in even with an advanced lock! No, keep leaving the door open instead!"
Are you serious? Why do you want to make life easier for thieves?!
Again, I've said it already: the users starting with "765..." are bots that have already spammed and are still in the Death Stranding group chat ! I know for sure because I block users after they spam the phishing messages, and those are all blocked. Why don't you want spammers to get banned? That's just weird!
Oh, and the "circumventing techniques" to post fraudulent links anyway would at the very least make those links not clickable , which would already be a lot better and make them look even more suspicious!
Can also be flipped the opposite way and mean there are better BOTs than other.
We are explaining that all your suggestions so far can be circumvented easily with minimal effort making them useless. Added security with 0 benefit whilst also pissing the rest of us off.
Like suggestion Valve implement 324589760326409823650238965 steps to login. So not just username, password and guard code. That wouldn't do ♥♥♥♥ as the sites would just have to update to request all the added steps and the stupid will just had them over. Thus Valve would waste time implementing all the added security which will infact give idiots a stronger sense of security like they already do with Steam guard.. Plenty of threads after someone got hijacked and they say but I have/use Steam guard I don't undwerstand HOW someone got access with Steam guard. Valve security is ♥♥♥♥ blah blah
Covered that above. More locks are pointless if your giving away the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ keys. Not about making it easier for spammers, hijackers its about not wasting time and resources to implement something that while be circumvented before the day is over. The ONLY thing that your suggestions will do is PISS the rest of us off with yet more security because users live in a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bubble of their own making and refuse to read safety advice because it's not flashy or fun.
What happens when these new filters you suggest get implemented? Oh I already mentioned it. www(dot)ScamMe(dot)com = some ♥♥♥♥♥ will remove the circumvention, visit the site and get scammed.
Oh look another user hijacked and scammed because a new annoying implementation that doesn't ♥♥♥♥ to stop the issue when idiots are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idiots and throw themselves at scammers despite all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ warnings
Like the babies complaining about EA game despite the BIG ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WARNING saying games may or may not change. Big warning, yet they ignore it and then ♥♥♥♥♥ because they are not likely the outcome. Just like the idiots using phishing sites and stuff because they refuse to READ and FOLLOW SAFE practices
Yes and as explained 765 is NOT EXCLUSIVE to theose BOTs in the group. ANYONE could have a name beginning with 765 and you want to do a blanket ban on them. LOOK at my NAME. I just changed it to PROVE THE POINT
And thats not Valve who develops CAPTCHA, thats google who has done that. Valve just includes it into the path that people need to take to get to something....
And again google, a much bigger company than Valve, can't stop bots from being able to do CAPTCHAs. Let that sink in.... the people who CREATED the CAPTCHAs CAN'T STOP THE BOTS. What is Valve suppose to do?
Again we're telling you FROM EXPERIENCE with both having to deal with bots and CAPTCHAs, that CAPTCHAs DO NOT WORK because the bots can be altered so fast that the CAPTCHAs are useless.
Google would have to literally have to change how CAPTCHAs work every few hours of every single day, of every single month, of every single year to make them useful... and there are only so many ways you can change things.
You are suggesting stuff that has already failed and has not been changed in a long time. Its like saying "put that fire out in that house with the bucket of rocks that we know doesn't work."
No what we are saying is don't use stuff that we already know failed and has not worked since nearly day one.
What you are saying is that you want to put a lock on the door that we already know the thief has a key to. How we do we know the their has a key to it? Because we already had that lock on there and the thief walked right in.
We are saying come up with a different way because that lock is no good.
You said ban everyone with those numbers at the start... seeing as how there could be millions of accounts with those numbers at the start, because new accounts are made in order not just at random, you would be banning innocent people.
For all you know, its 1000 bot accounts that start with that number and 100,000 human accounts that also start with that number.
Right till they start using other methods which we have already seen. I think all links that are posted in a chat should have to be copy and pasted into a browser to work, but you wanted any and all links from outside of steam blocked, which I can't agree with.
I encourage you all to join the Death Stranding group chat for second and let me know if it's acceptable to leave it the way it is! With bots spamming daily and no moderators, unless we report them en masse and it takes days or hours to ban them! Meanwhile new uneducated users get scammed, and you blame the victims instead of the scammer!
Why do spammers get banned quickly on other groups but not in the official Death Stranding? Why do scammers get banned very quickly on 'Discussions' but not in official Death Stranding?
If they don't want or cannot add moderators it's not hard to add a script that recognises the same freaking copied and pasted message that has been used for years!
And if they cannot add regular moderators they need to forbid any external link .
Am I supposed to believe that there are bots out there that can already recognise any possible picture of traffic lights, trucks, cars, flowers, bicycles, etc. in CAPTCHAs but somehow it's unthinkable to automatically detect the exact same phishing attempt that has been used for years?! Are you kidding me?!
Just because a specific group of thieves has managed to unlock a certain type of lock in the past that's not a excuse to use no lock at all!
You can't just assume that every single thief out there is fully prepared to force any lock in the world! And that's not an excuse to never update or upgrade security!
DO SOMETHING INSTEAD OF NOTHING ! Currently, Valve is doing nothing because it's way too easy for those scammers to access the group and spam.
Currently there are no filters to join the group, and there are clearly no moderators. Something must change!
Plus, there are plenty of pictures that anti-CAPTCHA AIs have not encountered before. It's up to the developing team, not me, to update security measures. I'm just here asking them to do their job. Their job . Nothing more!
My suggestion is that people learn common sense when using the internet as clearly they are incapable of doing so. "Hey kid, log into this site, enter your steam credentials and you will get skins" That kid: "OH BOY!". That is all it takes to compromise an account, nothing more. Someone that uses common sense would think "Hmm, that doesn't sound right, better not log into that site", presto, phishing attempt thwarted. Nobody is really a victim when they allow the crime to take place, just as I cannot state that I am a victim because I provided someone the key to my house and they stole items.
If you let in someone who deceives you into thinking that they're cops with a false warrant and badge, and they rob you, you've literally become a victim of deceit and theft.
You're perfectly entitled to press charges!
Analogously, these kids are being deceived into thinking that Steam is giving away prizes.
Are these victims naive? Yes.
Do they deserve to take all the blame while Steam does nothing to stop the impostors once and for all? No!
Does Death Stranding group deserve to be ignored while half of the users base are giving up hopes and leaving it? No!
So, stop blaming the victims, and provide suggestions / ideas to prevent these scams, which is the whole point of this forum section.
If you just keep adding security on top of security, on top of security its eventually going to drive people away. We've already seen people complain that there is too much security already.
I know if I had to do CAPTCHAs for everything, it would drive me away from Steam. I hardly ever did any trading and the little that I did do, was quite annoying when CAPTCHAs were involved, because sometimes, it would take me 4 or more CAPTCHAs to finally get through because it was all screwed up. And that was only for a week.
So are we blaming the "victims" here, yes, but as I said, at some time you have to with this when they GIVE AWAY their info and TURN OFF security because they have been offered something. that they think is worth turning it all off.
If people STOPPED GIVING OUT THEIR INFO and STOPPED TURNING OFF THEIR SECURITY AND STOPPED TRYING TO GET MONEY VIA 3RD PARTY SITES AND STOPPED BELIEVING A STEAM DEV/MOD IS CONTACTING THEM ON SOME 3RD PARTY WEBSITE then the security we have now would be just fine.
Because as it is, no one is hacking into Steam accounts, its all done because people giveaway their info and turn off security.
The only extra security would work is if you had someone from Valve standing behind you at all times ready to smack your hand every time you tried to give out your info and turn off security.
BTW you might want to know that Gabe gave out his steam login and password years ago once 3rd party authentication was introduced, telling people to go ahead and break into his account, no one has been able to.
That was in 2011, no one has been able to get into it.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=gabe+newell+gives+out+his+password
So again for like the 10th time, or 100th time if you count all the other threads on this topic, Don't give out your info and don't turn off your security and you will be fine.
Also on a side note, don't gift people stuff with the promise that they will send you money.
At this point the only thing that might make Steam more secure and getting rid of the trading and gifting ability totally. Or maybe just make it so that all you can do is trade and the trade can only be for equally priced items, no more trading a little card for 300 bucks worth of items.
So one more time, say it with me....
People need to stop giving away their info and they need to stop turning off their security.