Pre-patch old games
Seriously why doesn't Steam ever have old games they sell be pre-patched to work on modern OS and hardware like Gog does? Its pretty sad that a smaller company actually takes the time and effort to make sure the games they sell will actually be able to work on their customer's computer. Steam's mentality is the same as Bethsuda's being lazy knowing that their fans will do it for them for free instead having to make those patching guides. Honestly I've been slowly moving over to Gog uninstalling all my old games on Steam since thy work better on the Gog version.
Отредактировано McJiggy; 7 сен. 2021 г. в 15:27
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Сообщения 1630 из 30
Автор сообщения: DC-GS
Sure, I dont know what OP means.
But if someone talks about old games, I think of 90s games. Not new full 3D era games from 2000s.
Usually when I see threads from people talking about old games, they're talking about 2000 era games. We people who gamed in the 80s and 90s apparently aren't just old, we're prehistoric.
Dangit, i'm already feeling old. This makes it worse.

How many kids told ya, you are lying for gaming in the 90s? We must lie, since the first xbox came out 2002. No games before that.
Автор сообщения: cof1n™
Steam seriously needs to start helping out their indie dev's. Its pretty pathetic that valve is going to let people refund 10$ indie games they got and beat/enjoyed because they finished it in the 2 hour window. I understand for scams and what not, but there are so many out there getting screwed by scum bags taking advantage of the system.

Kind of seems like a big FU to your indie devs valve.
Back in my day these "indie" games were just free online flash games you could find on sites like Armorgames and Crazymonkeygames, I can see why people would abuse the refund or just pirate these games when they are the same kind of stuff you used to find for free online, now when it comes to more quality indie games like Underrail that's when people should actually pay for it and definitely cant refund since they'll have hundreds of hours into the game.
The joke is Most of those early 90's and late 80's games run just fine, since those games just get packaged with DosBox so has no issue with modern systems.

It's those weird late 90's early 2000's games that seem to cause some of the most issues because they can't run out of dosbox requirng windows , and since those were pre or early direct x days they tend to have some weird graphics optimizations for cards that no longer exist. anything that was say optimized for the Voodoo or 3dfx chipsets for example.

By the time you get to mid-late 200's direct x is much more standardized and widely used and thusly you again have fewer issues.

Автор сообщения: JamestheFreak
Back in my day these "indie" games were just free online flash games you could find on sites like Armorgames and Crazymonkeygames,
I remember when flash was the exciting rvolutionary new tech.

I can see why people would abuse the refund or just pirate these games when they are the same kind of stuff you used to find for free online, now when it comes to more quality indie games like Underrail that's when people should actually pay for it and definitely cant refund since they'll have hundreds of hours into the game.
The game the OP is talking about is essentially a less than 2 hour longh walking simulator that the developer thinks is worth the same as Portal, Morrowid, or Oblivion to name a few.

Never mind that they is literally no proof to the develioper's claims and even if it were true he should be thank they could refund it otherwise the game's review score would probably be in the red.

Автор сообщения: cof1n™
Steam seriously needs to start helping out their indie dev's. Its pretty pathetic that valve is going to let people refund 10$ indie games they got and beat/enjoyed because they finished it in the 2 hour window. I understand for scams and what not, but there are so many out there getting screwed by scum bags taking advantage of the system.

Kind of seems like a big FU to your indie devs valve.

Steam is helping them out. They are providing an unbiased store front that allows them to showcase their stuff right next to the big budget AAA"s. The best thing any store can do for indies is to be neutral and let the indies do their thing. They will fail or succeed by their own merit.
Отредактировано Start_Running; 8 сен. 2021 г. в 12:18
Автор сообщения: Start_Running
It's those weird late 90's early 2000's games that seem to cause some of the most issues because they can't run out of dosbox requirng windows , and since those were pre or early direct x days they tend to have some weird graphics optimizations for cards that no longer exist. anything that was say optimized for the Voodoo or 3dfx chipsets for example.
Extra EAX drivers for sound, or some graphical renderer or something like that, yeah. Stuff like that could actually be included by game devs, but most don't do that.
Автор сообщения: Crazy Tiger
Автор сообщения: Start_Running
It's those weird late 90's early 2000's games that seem to cause some of the most issues because they can't run out of dosbox requirng windows , and since those were pre or early direct x days they tend to have some weird graphics optimizations for cards that no longer exist. anything that was say optimized for the Voodoo or 3dfx chipsets for example.
Extra EAX drivers for sound, or some graphical renderer or something like that, yeah. Stuff like that could actually be included by game devs, but most don't do that.
THe problem there being that drivers are proprietary tech that typically has to be licensed and this iis for stuff than no longer exists or has any hardware compatabilitty. There's a reason why for most games updating the game for modern systems essentially involves working around those drivers as much as possible. Throw it into software rendering and ignore anything but basic s generic sound output.

Автор сообщения: DC-GS
Dangit, i'm already feeling old. This makes it worse.

How many kids told ya, you are lying for gaming in the 90s? We must lie, since the first xbox came out 2002. No games before that.

Never. Although I wish. Confidently wrong people are always hilarious, even when they're children.
Автор сообщения: Lazy Dog
[...] They don't own those files, they'll get sued by the IP holder if they ever did. You can't push updates for something you don't own. [...]

Автор сообщения: Start_Running
The joke is Most of those early 90's and late 80's games run just fine, since those games just get packaged with DosBox so has no issue with modern systems. [...]

There's an idea. Packaging with DosBox (i.e. adding extra files to the game depot) is okay, they only can't distribute modified files. On Linux (I know, get over it) Steam Play does something similar with every game - Valve provides unmodified game files (whole depot) and some extra files (compatibility layer install scripts). The user, with a press of a button, runs those scripts which in turn download dependencies (like DirectX, .NET library, patches, etc.) and install them. I don't think it counts as Valve patching files. Actually, I'm pretty sure in this case it's the user who does the patching, at least this is how it works in Europe (confirmed by a lawyer girlfriend*). Legally it's a different thing than modifying files and distributing them. If Valve could expand Steam Play to Windows it'd solve the issue.

*) Yeah, I've never won an argument in this relationship.
Автор сообщения: Cy
Автор сообщения: Lazy Dog
[...] They don't own those files, they'll get sued by the IP holder if they ever did. You can't push updates for something you don't own. [...]

Автор сообщения: Start_Running
The joke is Most of those early 90's and late 80's games run just fine, since those games just get packaged with DosBox so has no issue with modern systems. [...]

There's an idea. Packaging with DosBox (i.e. adding extra files to the game depot) is okay, they only can't distribute modified files. On Linux (I know, get over it) Steam Play does something similar with every game - Valve provides unmodified game files (whole depot) and some extra files (compatibility layer install scripts). The user, with a press of a button, runs those scripts which in turn download dependencies (like DirectX, .NET library, patches, etc.) and install them. I don't think it counts as Valve patching files. Actually, I'm pretty sure in this case it's the user who does the patching, at least this is how it works in Europe (confirmed by a lawyer girlfriend*). Legally it's a different thing than modifying files and distributing them. If Valve could expand Steam Play to Windows it'd solve the issue.

*) Yeah, I've never won an argument in this relationship.

Talk to the developers. Valve isn't going to "prepatch" any thing that they aren't the developers of.
Автор сообщения: Start_Running
Автор сообщения: JamestheFreak
They seriously have to go through legal stuff just for patching a game?
Yes. You can't patch someone else's product without their express consent. Just like you can't paint someone else's house without tgheir express consent.
That's not quite accurate (albeit depending on the exact wording, which is inevitably a source of internet arguments). But the bottom line is, if you have your own copy of the game, you can patch that. You're just not allowed to sell the stuff. Or rather, you don't have legal rights to sell the stuff (though some people may anyway, but that's beside the point).

That said, Valve can patch stuff. As explained below, getting old games patched up and working has benefits for both the store and the IP owner. But the more likely reasons that they don't are that they just don't have a tradition of doing this, as part of the way they do business in general, while GOG does. (And Valve might not have as much experience/expertise in this either.) More generally, GOG has a tradition of not just doing this but (more generally) paying close attention to their games, while Valve is a more hands-off storefront.

GOG started out as "Good Old Games", where they specifically sold old games, and also did (and still do, as far as I've heard) the work of patching and tweaking old games in order to make them run properly on newer computers. GOG does need the permission of whoever owns the intellectual property in order to sell these patched games, but honestly it's a win-win situation for GOG and the IP owner, and it's something they like to do anyway, so that's why they're willing to work with IP owners to make old games work.

Steam on the other hand seems to operate on a much more hands-off basis, where publishers just come here to this here biggest PC gaming digital store and put up their wares for sale. Publishers do whatever they want, within the confines of Steam's infrastructure, and Steam just mostly passively offers the space. Valve doesn't really specialize in old games anyway, so they probably wouldn't even be as good as GOG with working with old games anyway.

You can also see this difference in the way the two stores manage their catalogues. Steam these days just lets anyone pay like $100 to start selling their games on here. GOG, on the other hand, has a reputation for much more carefully curating their catalogue, rejecting things that they don't think would fit. So you have people on Steam complaining that there's too much "shovelware", while you have people on GOG complaining that their selection is insufficient.
Отредактировано Quint the Alligator Snapper; 20 дек. 2021 г. в 19:47
I have every Command and Conquer that i bought when they first came out, i see them here being sold individually at ridiculous prices, its like you have to buy them twice these days if your a fan of the older type games, bad enough that i had to buy Shogun total war again..
Автор сообщения: teddy.boy
I have every Command and Conquer that i bought when they first came out, i see them here being sold individually at ridiculous prices, its like you have to buy them twice these days if your a fan of the older type games, bad enough that i had to buy Shogun total war again..

It's not as if media being released in new formats has ever warranted re-purchasing it in the new format if you want the benefits of the new format.

I've never replaced a record, cassette, CD, VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, NES cartridge, floppy disk, CD-ROM, and on and on.

I buy things once and use the original media no matter how cumbersome it becomes. That's what everyone else does right?
I just want to be allowed to play the games i bought in good faith, there was never an expiry date on the games, if there was i doubt anyone would buy another game, this is purely for financial gain, i`m sure the original was designed for enjoyment, and no thought was given to any future date where the operating system would not be able to play them.

Records, Cassettes, CD, VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, NES cartridge, Floppy disk, CD-ROM will still work on the systems they were designed for, even the floppy, so will carry on playing while you have the machines to use them with..
Автор сообщения: DC-GS
Автор сообщения: JamestheFreak
smaller company

Who are you talkin about?
Compared to CD Project, Valve is the way smaller company.

At face value this seemed false to me, so I went to check the stats before I posted that you were wrong.

I was surprised to discover that just last year CDPR was valued at over 10 billion USD. (Before Cyberpunk 2077 released.) Valve's current estimated valuation is about 8 billion USD. (Estimated, because Valve doesn't release their financials publicly. They are a private company, and honestly I hope they stay that way.)

However CDPR is publicly traded, and they've taken a plunge this year and are currently valued at under 5 billion USD. (Thanks Cyberpunk.)

Still, my understanding of the size of these companies has been shaken. I assumed Valve to be much, much bigger due to having a pretty strong grip on the PC games market.

Maybe CDPR can pull a No Man's Sky with Cyberpunk 2077 and turn those financials around. We'll see.
Автор сообщения: teddy.boy
there was never an expiry date on the games, if there was i doubt anyone would buy another game

A lot of games have DRM. While there is no date printed, every game has an expire date by nature.
Yet sales are booming. As long the expiration date isnt too short, it isnt a concern for most customers.




Автор сообщения: 8bitbeard
At face value this seemed false to me, so I went to check the stats before I posted that you were wrong.
[...]
Still, my understanding of the size of these companies has been shaken. I assumed Valve to be much, much bigger due to having a pretty strong grip on the PC games market.

First of all, thumbs up for looking up facts. Isnt granted nowadays.

For size, i also look at how many employers the company has. Being a polish company, their value in USD may be smaller to companies same size but in countries with higher GDP.

I were too surprised how "small" Valve really is. Just imagine if they were public traded. They would be gone in an instant.
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Дата создания: 7 сен. 2021 г. в 15:26
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