It is enough, age verification system now for German users

[redsimonDE]

Today Steam dropped a nuke for users living in Germany:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/ki12if/steam_now_regionblocks_all_adultonly_games_in/

In short, Steam SILENTLY (no notification was given) banned all games that included full n00dity or intense 3rotic interaction (sorry for describing it like this to avoid censorship) for German users.
Steam implemented this silent ban obviously to avoid backlash and criticism, as is common for internet corporations unfortunately.

For frakks sake Valve, implement a proper age verification system already!

German users have demanded this for years and years. We have spoken with our wallets to support Steam and were hit with censorship after censorship.

This censorship may be due to German laws, but it only needs to prevent minors from accessing these games, not everyone.

It's not like the German video game market is small, you made a lot of revenue from Germany for years and years, and continue to do so.

Stop treating your German customers like dirt.
I'm an adult, I am allowed to buy these games, but you are to lazy to add a feature to your store even though there's a good amount of money in for you as an incentive.

In fact, I am willing to pay a premium to access everything that's not illegal in Germany (that's almost everything if you're an adult). I'm sure many other German users would too.

It is time Valve made a proper statement about this and promised to add an age verification system to the Steam client.

Technically Steam isn't allowed to sell ANY age restricted game for the age brackets of 16+ or 18+ in Germany without age verification.

These age groups of the German rating system for games ALSO need to be verified.
But they are still on sale without necessary age verification.

Apparently German authorities and courts have not applied any pressure with regards to that. Yet.

Link to the discussion in German in German discussions forum:

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/24/3004429475616252303/

[kitt]

i would literally pay a fee for the first verification and if needed a yearly fee up to $1 so Valve doesn't go bankrupt ofer impolementing such verification systems.

I just want to buy these Anime/Hentai Games man, come on :)

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Sazzouu:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

So steam would, as an, internartional company needs be have access to your country's entire registry of people...I wonder if thats something German citizens would be comfortable with.

Nope.... It would be the same as with "Login with Steam" on third-party sites.

Germany already has several companies accepted by the government to compare biometrical data and papers with the local registers and then answers with a simple "Yes" when that person passes the verification or a "No" when they don't.

So Valve would only need to implement some sort of facecam feature where yoh have to be holding your papers (probably with some sort of Simon-Says-like actions to prevent injection) and the only thing that Valve has to interest in the end is the answer of said local service provider.

Sounds simple enough? Well it is and I can confirm that this os reality since I am infact using many local services that require the usage of those verification processes and YES that is enough for the government

Implement a Facecam feature,, store highly personal data, secure that data. All to please a subset of one particular country's gaming population...Have you ever wondered why Valve keeps asking for your age... its because saving that information...comes with a laundry list of issues

You see what I mean when I say It may justt be more cost effective and profitable to not sell the games in germany.


As said. at the end of the day Germans need to have words with their Nannies

[ExiA]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por Sazzouu:

Nope.... It would be the same as with "Login with Steam" on third-party sites.

Germany already has several companies accepted by the government to compare biometrical data and papers with the local registers and then answers with a simple "Yes" when that person passes the verification or a "No" when they don't.

So Valve would only need to implement some sort of facecam feature where yoh have to be holding your papers (probably with some sort of Simon-Says-like actions to prevent injection) and the only thing that Valve has to interest in the end is the answer of said local service provider.

Sounds simple enough? Well it is and I can confirm that this os reality since I am infact using many local services that require the usage of those verification processes and YES that is enough for the government

Implement a Facecam feature,, store highly personal data, secure that data. All to please a subset of one particular country's gaming population...Have you ever wondered why Valve keeps asking for your age... its because saving that information...comes with a laundry list of issues

You see what I mean when I say It may justt be more cost effective and profitable to not sell the games in germany.


As said. at the end of the day Germans need to have words with their Nannies

Something like a facecam feature is not even necessary. Our ID has a system in place which can verify your age (and other information, if applicable) digitally without giving away more info then needed. As a user you get informed beforehand exactly which parts of your ID will be shared, in this case Steam would only need your age. Cigarette vending machine have been using this technology for years now, I don't see a reason why Valve would not use it.

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Alter Mann:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Implement a Facecam feature,, store highly personal data, secure that data. All to please a subset of one particular country's gaming population...Have you ever wondered why Valve keeps asking for your age... its because saving that information...comes with a laundry list of issues

You see what I mean when I say It may justt be more cost effective and profitable to not sell the games in germany.


As said. at the end of the day Germans need to have words with their Nannies

Something like a facecam feature is not even necessary. Our ID has a system in place which can verify your age (and other information, if applicable) digitally without giving away more info then needed. As a user you get informed beforehand exactly which parts of your ID will be shared, in this case Steam would only need your age. Cigarette vending machine have been using this technology for years now, I don't see a reason why Valve would not use it.

And how do you ensure the id in question belongs to the owner of the account. Not hard for someone to jot down a number from Mo, Dad, or Older siblings card.

See its easy to say. The technology has been in use...but has it actually worked?
Is it effective or is it just something that people believe is working?

TYou need ID in most countries to by liqour...and in any of these countries you don't have to try hard to find a group of minors swapping a bottle of the good stuff between them. Same thing for porn mags, drugs, etc.

[redsimonDE]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

And how do you ensure the id in question belongs to the owner of the account. Not hard for someone to jot down a number from Mo, Dad, or Older siblings card.

See its easy to say. The technology has been in use...but has it actually worked?
Is it effective or is it just something that people believe is working?

TYou need ID in most countries to by liqour...and in any of these countries you don't have to try hard to find a group of minors swapping a bottle of the good stuff between them. Same thing for porn mags, drugs, etc.

How many times do people have to tell you that this only about being in compliance with law?

Steam is allowed to offer what they just banned to all adults in Germany with ID verifcation.

The quality of this system is a different question and completely off-topic.

[м]

well, at least you can still receive everything as uncut steam gift, tested that with a friend from germany yesterday.

[Sazzouu]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

And how do you ensure the id in question belongs to the owner of the account. Not hard for someone to jot down a number from Mo, Dad, or Older siblings card.

Three pictures...
1) Solely your ID card with a background as blank as possible (white bed sheets, a table...)
2) Solely your ID card with some random Simon-Says-like action such as "Hold it in a 90 degree angle in fornt of a half-opened window"
3) Your face in biometric expressions while holding the ID card right infront of you

Delivery-services, online banks, social media... even freaking >>ONLYFANS<< does that.

EDIT:
The second option can even be generated in the very moment of the verification process to ensure you didn't just grab some random picture from anywhere

[ExiA]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por Alter Mann:

Something like a facecam feature is not even necessary. Our ID has a system in place which can verify your age (and other information, if applicable) digitally without giving away more info then needed. As a user you get informed beforehand exactly which parts of your ID will be shared, in this case Steam would only need your age. Cigarette vending machine have been using this technology for years now, I don't see a reason why Valve would not use it.

And how do you ensure the id in question belongs to the owner of the account. Not hard for someone to jot down a number from Mo, Dad, or Older siblings card.

See its easy to say. The technology has been in use...but has it actually worked?
Is it effective or is it just something that people believe is working?

TYou need ID in most countries to by liqour...and in any of these countries you don't have to try hard to find a group of minors swapping a bottle of the good stuff between them. Same thing for porn mags, drugs, etc.

People will find ways around any restrictions, thats no question, but also not the question at hand. There is a clear way of implementing an age verification that satisfies the requirements set by our laws, but steam is not using that.

[Nun!]

So nothing is 100% safe, this is for sure. But at least give us a 60% or whatever solution ... right now there is nothing. Pretty bad from Valve.

[Ryu.82]

Escrito originalmente por brian9824:

Escrito originalmente por Jill Sandwich:

Wrong. Valve is not even complying. Lots of "USK 18" games are still available on Steam, like Cyberpunk or Wolfenstein. If they were actually following the law they are supposedly following, they would have to block those as well.

Those game's aren't porn. There is a vast difference between mature games and pornographic games.

It's also old news and has been escalating in Germany for a while now - https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/ewp3mn/many_adult_games_blocked_from_the_german_steam/

It's been confirmed by developers that they are cracking down on Adult only games, not mature games. It looked like before it was just games that pushed child porn boundries, but now with this it looks like it just might have been the first step in blocking all adult titles.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/611790/discussions/2/1738887849007064049/?ctp=2#c1738888024500052557

So games like Cyberpunk and Wolfenstein are completely unaffected at this time.

Sorry if I jump in here for a second, but I think there is one important point you do not know about. First of all, you are right with what you are writing, up to this point, they have only targeted adult only contents. But there is a catch, according to german law, those kind of games are not treated differently than other 18+ games if it is about selling them, the only difference is about presenting them, because media with such content is not allowed to be shown to minors in any way, that is the only difference. If you take a closer look, you realize, that noone is stopping Valve from selling them in germany right now, they are stopping them from showing them without making sure, they are showing them to adults only. This of course means they can´t sell them either, but it is a very important distinction if it comes to the law, because it explains, why games with sexual content are affected, while the other above mentioned games are not. So, yes, Valve is complying, the law is just not about what you thought it is about.

But there is a another law in germany, and this one is the one valve should really be concerned about. Because that law says, that it is illegal to sell any game rated 16+ or 18+ without age verification. You do understand what that means right? All games with ratings 16+, 18+ or without a rating (those are considered 18+ by law until a rating is given) that valve sells on steam are currently sold illegally in germany as far as the law is concerned. And now you just have to know that there are a lot of smaller games, that do not have a german age rating and are thus considered 18+, and you suddenly know, that this might become a little problem for valve. And then you learn, that with breaking the law there is,unsurprisingly, a penalty involved, up to 500 Dollars for each illegally sold game as far as I know, maybe even more. And this is the point where you suddenly realize, that it might become more than just a little problem. It might become an expansive catastrophe. If at any point in time somebody in power realizes, that Valve does break this law, they are in for a lot of trouble. Or maybe some company like Amazon, they already have to follow the law and use age verification for 18+ games and movies, starts to wonder, why the heck they have to follow the law and valve does not have to, and decide to ask this question to a court. You know, same conditions on the market and stuff?

Up to this point, Valve was basically lucky because german politics did not really realize that there is something like this rumored internet. But, as the current events involving adult content are clearly proving, someone told them about it and they are starting to realize, that laws are also applying to the internet as long as things are sold in germany, and they are starting to use this laws. So it might be in Valves own interest to start thinking about age verification, before it is too late, because suddenly we are not talking about some minor unimportant adult only games anymore, we are talking about a large part of the market in germany, and a lot of money, with potential lost sales when they would have to stop selling games in germany and penalty payments on top of this.

Of course this is only in theory, no one knows if they will ever use this law against Valve, but considering what is at risk here, do you really think a company can just ignore this, hoping for good luck?

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Alter Mann:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

And how do you ensure the id in question belongs to the owner of the account. Not hard for someone to jot down a number from Mo, Dad, or Older siblings card.

See its easy to say. The technology has been in use...but has it actually worked?
Is it effective or is it just something that people believe is working?

TYou need ID in most countries to by liqour...and in any of these countries you don't have to try hard to find a group of minors swapping a bottle of the good stuff between them. Same thing for porn mags, drugs, etc.

People will find ways around any restrictions, thats no question, but also not the question at hand. There is a clear way of implementing an age verification that satisfies the requirements set by our laws, but steam is not using that.

And the question is..."is it worth it to Valve?"

Were there that many germans buying these games.
Also, as said. Valve does in a sense know that those that want it will simply VPN their way around it. There's also the dev angle. Devs can if they wish simply tone down their games to get around it.

I all boils back to this being between the germans and their giovernment.
Valve might eventually implement something, but Valve time is a thing and in that time it will become apparent if they need to,

[Sazzouu]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Valve might eventually implement something, but Valve time is a thing and in that time it will become apparent if they need to,

Jokes aside now. "Valve Time" surely is a thing but not at something that hurts many aspects of the platform really. Valve Time is a thing on irrelevant stuff such as having dynamic collections. Been demanded for ages before it actually happened.

But as soon as thre is something that hurts integrity, image, usability or what ever there is that is actually RELEVANT to the survival of a company of what ever size and shape Valve almost immediately reacts to it. And the current situation for german users is anything but reasonable.

Plus I just found out that the very same issues happen on other countries too. For example Austria as the same issues. Not as severe as in Germany but it is there. So there goes your point of "between germans and their goverment". It yet again supports my statement about Steam having a lack of features on that part

[Dexter]

Escrito originalmente por brian9824:

I mean its not an easy task to verify the age of someone when you can't see the person.

You'd think people with 14-16 year old STEAM ACCOUNTS could be considered to be over 18 already, or do they think 2-3 year olds created their Steam accounts back in 2004/05? This will be even funnier/stupider in 2 years when there are 18+ year old Steam accounts.

[redsimonDE]

This thread is now visible again until the "automated content check system" hid it for about an hour after I updated the first post.

[-=9315+35/<r4/VX=-]

Hey, I just wanted to throw a little half-offtop (sorry) in as a solace to at least some german customers:

IF the newly disabled games are still in your whishlist, you can still order it directly from there.

Maybe you can do something out of this info... ;)
I dunno how long this will be possible or if they are just "on hold" for a while. But to be safe I just spend all my savings on every disabled game in my list.