It is enough, age verification system now for German users

[redsimonDE]

Today Steam dropped a nuke for users living in Germany:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/ki12if/steam_now_regionblocks_all_adultonly_games_in/

In short, Steam SILENTLY (no notification was given) banned all games that included full n00dity or intense 3rotic interaction (sorry for describing it like this to avoid censorship) for German users.
Steam implemented this silent ban obviously to avoid backlash and criticism, as is common for internet corporations unfortunately.

For frakks sake Valve, implement a proper age verification system already!

German users have demanded this for years and years. We have spoken with our wallets to support Steam and were hit with censorship after censorship.

This censorship may be due to German laws, but it only needs to prevent minors from accessing these games, not everyone.

It's not like the German video game market is small, you made a lot of revenue from Germany for years and years, and continue to do so.

Stop treating your German customers like dirt.
I'm an adult, I am allowed to buy these games, but you are to lazy to add a feature to your store even though there's a good amount of money in for you as an incentive.

In fact, I am willing to pay a premium to access everything that's not illegal in Germany (that's almost everything if you're an adult). I'm sure many other German users would too.

It is time Valve made a proper statement about this and promised to add an age verification system to the Steam client.

Technically Steam isn't allowed to sell ANY age restricted game for the age brackets of 16+ or 18+ in Germany without age verification.

These age groups of the German rating system for games ALSO need to be verified.
But they are still on sale without necessary age verification.

Apparently German authorities and courts have not applied any pressure with regards to that. Yet.

Link to the discussion in German in German discussions forum:

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/24/3004429475616252303/

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Blame your government, not Valve for complying.

[Brian9824]

Any examples of how German sites verify the age of someone behind a computer that is deemed acceptable out of curiosity?

I mean its not an easy task to verify the age of someone when you can't see the person.

[redsimonDE]

Originally posted by cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Blame your government, not Valve for complying.

:qr:

I do blame them as well, but compliance in this case is easy for Valve and rewarded with revenue, as I stated.

Originally posted by brian9824:

Any examples of how German sites verify the age of someone behind a computer that is deemed acceptable out of curiosity?

I mean its not an easy task to verify the age of someone when you can't see the person.

Identity card (state issued, every adult German must own one by law), credit card or driver's licence.
Those cards have numbers that can be verified.
There are already online (and of course offline stores) who use it.

[Visi]

Sorry friend, but I'd rather Steam keep it the way it is. This is the fault of German politicians and those citizens that elected them. I don't want Steam to implement an invasive draconian age verification system to appease one country's stupid laws.

Originally posted by brian9824:

Any examples of how German sites verify the age of someone behind a computer that is deemed acceptable out of curiosity?

I mean its not an easy task to verify the age of someone when you can't see the person.

Credit/Debit card information and/or government ID.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

Originally posted by cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Blame your government, not Valve for complying.

:qr:

I do blame them as well, but compliance in this case is easy for Valve and rewarded with revenue, as I stated.

Originally posted by brian9824:

Any examples of how German sites verify the age of someone behind a computer that is deemed acceptable out of curiosity?

I mean its not an easy task to verify the age of someone when you can't see the person.

Identity card (state issued, every adult German must own one by law), credit card or driver's licence.
Those cards have numbers that can be verified.
There are already online (and of course offline stores) who use it.

Doesn't sound very easy to to implement. For one having a card number doesn't prove you are the one on the card. Would be incredibly easy for underage kids to just write down their parents driver license number for instance.

If Valve isn't doing something like what you suggest then its one of 2 things.

1. It's already in development and just not ready
2. They've decided the work to implement it wouldn't justify the benefit they'd get from it.

[redsimonDE]

Originally posted by Visi:

Sorry friend, but I'd rather Steam keep it the way it is. This is the fault of German politicians and those citizens that elected them. I don't want Steam to implement an invasive draconian age verification system to appease one country's stupid laws.

I have no idea why you think this has anything to do with American users.
This is only for compliance with German law for users living in Germany.

[Mad Scientist]

Let me simplify the issue, in your own words:

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

This censorship may be due to German laws

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

compliance in this

Asking Steam to implement an entire new system to get information, verify information, and track information one single countries 'Identity Card' wouldn't be worth it compared to making a sweeping easy solution. If that happens to not be to your liking, blame a restrictive government. It's much easier to implement a block than to make an entirely new system, for every single country, that wants something done in a specific manner - then - EU users would complain of Data Collection since Germany is in the EU.

This would also require likely not just getting the information but allowing Steam to connect to the system(s) that would authenticate the users Identification, so access to a government system is an immense liability for both parties. So, a sweeping block is a much better idea than getting into an entire mess no one wants to be a part of.

[redsimonDE]

Originally posted by brian9824:

Doesn't sound very easy to to implement. For one having a card number doesn't prove you are the one on the card. Would be incredibly easy for underage kids to just write down their parents driver license number for instance.

Irrelevant. It fulfills the conditions of German laws and would be enough with regards to compliance.

If Valve isn't doing something like what you suggest then its one of 2 things.

1. It's already in development and just not ready
2. They've decided the work to implement it wouldn't justify the benefit they'd get from it.

That's quite possible.
But they need to be put under pressure to make a statement.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

Irrelevant. It fulfills the conditions of German laws and would be enough with regards to compliance.

If a country told me how to run my Service, I wouldn't make entire new systems just to appease their law when my Service is physically outside of their country and their EU alliance. In fact, I'd also just put a blanket block on since it's far easier and would be a waste of my time to implement new functions for every country trying to dictate what I can/can't do outside of my own host country.

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

But they need to be put under pressure to make a statement.

No, your government needs to be put under pressure by unhappy citizens.
You don't get to Dictate what Steam does, their response to this alone appears to say that without actually saying it. Subject to change

[redsimonDE]

Originally posted by Mr. Gentlebot:

Let me simplify the issue, in your own words:

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

This censorship may be due to German laws

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

compliance in this

Asking Steam to implement an entire new system to get information, verify information, and track information one single countries 'Identity Card' wouldn't be worth it compared to making a sweeping easy solution. If that happens to not be to your liking, blame a restrictive government. It's much easier to implement a block than to make an entirely new system, for every single country, that wants something done in a specific manner - then - EU users would complain of Data Collection since Germany is in the EU.

This would also require likely not just getting the information but allowing Steam to connect to the system(s) that would authenticate the users Identification, so access to a government system is an immense liability for both parties. So, a sweeping block is a much better idea than getting into an entire mess no one wants to be a part of.

I DO blame the German government. The will of the German people is twisted and ignored in Germany even more than in other Western countries. Voting doesn't help because in important elections you can't even vote for candidates.

However, Germany is not just one country but one of the largest video game markets in the world.
We are not talking about Liechtenstein here.

There's an incentive, and a solution (as I said it has been implemented in online stores before).

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

There's an incentive, and a solution (as I said it has been implemented in online stores before).

This is like the Epic vs Steam thing, where people say "But epic does this" - forgetting that Steam, is not those other places. Steam will do Steam, other sites will do other sites. No one company has to do what other companies do especially when they're on top.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

Originally posted by Mr. Gentlebot:

Let me simplify the issue, in your own words:



Asking Steam to implement an entire new system to get information, verify information, and track information one single countries 'Identity Card' wouldn't be worth it compared to making a sweeping easy solution. If that happens to not be to your liking, blame a restrictive government. It's much easier to implement a block than to make an entirely new system, for every single country, that wants something done in a specific manner - then - EU users would complain of Data Collection since Germany is in the EU.

This would also require likely not just getting the information but allowing Steam to connect to the system(s) that would authenticate the users Identification, so access to a government system is an immense liability for both parties. So, a sweeping block is a much better idea than getting into an entire mess no one wants to be a part of.

I DO blame the German government. The will of the German people is twisted and ignored in Germany even more than in other Western countries. Voting doesn't help because in important elections you can't even vote for candidates.

However, Germany is not just one country but one of the largest video game markets in the world.
We are not talking about Liechtenstein here.

There's an incentive, and a solution (as I said it has been implemented in online stores before).

Eh Germany is #5 and its nowhere near one of the largest. The largest are the US/China/Japan by a massive margin. Of that amount a TINY amount is spent on adult video games in comparision.

[redsimonDE]

Originally posted by Mr. Gentlebot:

If a country told me how to run my Service, I wouldn't make entire new systems just to appease their law when my Service is physically outside of their country and their EU alliance. In fact, I'd also just put a blanket block on since it's far easier and would be a waste of my time to implement new functions for every country trying to dictate what I can/can't do outside of my own host country.

You're completely ignoring the fact that Steam has done that before, several times actually.

No, your government needs to be put under pressure by unhappy citizens.
You don't get to Dictate what Steam does, their response to this alone appears to say that without actually saying it. Subject to change

You don't seem to understand. Companies give in to public pressure all the time. As I have an incentive there's no reason for me not to apply that pressure.

The German government is another issue. Sure it needs to be put under pressure, and I could discuss the topic with you for ages, but it would go completely off-topic.

I am only adressing the relationship between me (and other German users) and the company Valve.

[redsimonDE]

Originally posted by brian9824:

Eh Germany is #5 and its nowhere near one of the largest. The largest are the US/China/Japan by a massive margin. Of that amount a TINY amount is spent on adult video games in comparision.

You just answered yourself. Top 5 definitely fits the definition of "one of the largest".

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by redsimonDE:

Originally posted by brian9824:

Eh Germany is #5 and its nowhere near one of the largest. The largest are the US/China/Japan by a massive margin. Of that amount a TINY amount is spent on adult video games in comparision.

You just answered yourself. Top 5 definitely fits the definition of "one of the largest".

Except for key details:

2019: Country & Market Revenue, population in 2020 numbers.
US - 36.87 Billion - 331 Million people [2020]
China - 36.54 Billion - 1.43 Billion people [2020]
Japan - 18.95 Billion - 126.5 Million people [2020]
S.Korea - 6.49 Billion - 51.3 Million people [2020]
Germany - 5.62 Billion - 83.8 Million people [2020]
UK - 5.62 Billion - 67.9 Million people [2020]
France - 4.09 Billion - 65.3 Million people [2020]
Canada - 2.77 Billion - 37.7 Million people [2020]
Spain - 2.74 Billion - 46.8 Million people [2020]
Italy - 2.69 Billion. - 60.5 Million people [2020]

The numbers of the top 3 certainly matter the most due to being a majority of the market, let alone the top 2.