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Friends only helps friends decide, but really shouldn't be counted. Private reviews have no purpose to be a thing.
Also ASCII is not a review, it's spam. People can do that elsewhere, but a review is to review the game, not an attempt to farm awards with non reviews.
well, i disagree. the friends only review should count. it makes no sense to me that it shouldn't. at the end of the day the person's upvote/downvote given in that review counts to the system to determine if a game is good/mixed/bad.
seems everyone is ignoring this just for the sake of controversy.
I never said substance. Merely said that it can provide something of worth to the audience. Jokes and humor, or just something that can trigger the 'Huh, neat.' response has potential value to the audience.
So in terms of substantive value. A meme, or ascii art review is equal to a private review. But it terms of secondary value provided... the ascii and meme reviews can at least provide *something*. The rivate review provides *nothing*.
And a private review isn't about the game either. But as said. There can be some value in a an Ascii, or Meme review.
UI mean there's a reason that if you check many reviewers you'll find a large number of them try to add a fair bit of humour and klevity to their discourse. because many fo them know that its the jokes and humour that create and keep their audience not so much the information they present.
The Jokes and Memes, have value to some part of the audience. An invisible review... has none and quite frankly if audiences ever figured out that it was possible for reveiws to be completely invisible... they'd be a bit on the wary side of the review system on a whole.
No matter how you sklice it. FOr as little value as Memes and Ascii have. Private revuiews have even less value.
Since trolling can be discarded as an argument due to it already possible in the current system, there is no reason to not include a private option.
Hence why I said that if those meme and ascii art reviews are ok, a private one should be as well. Either all or nothing, but not cherry picking what suits you.
An invisible review has value to the people that only value the rating.
As I said, I disagree on that.
Simple as that.And that 1 can be the big when it comes to having some standard.
I mean the difference between an A and a B on an exam is the difference between 89 and 90.
And the difference between a pass an a fail/resit is 55 and 54. The standard has to be drawn somewhere. and I don't think any system was improved by lowering the standards.
Heck I'm all for raising the standard to remove meme and ascii reviews but there's no real way to do that in a cost effective, matter...yet.
An again the priavate review is the inferior option. The meme reviews do the same but have one extra point of value to the audience.
Half the worth but given the same weight.
Can you show what the private review does that the meme review doesn't from the perspective of the viewing audience?
Regular users tend to post frequently because, guess what, they're regular users. They can post wherever they like and otherwise have access to. We don't need alt accounts, and as shown in this thread there is disagreement even among regulars because they're still users with various opinions on various subjects.
And?
Regular users typically don't make suggestion threads, and if they do, they don't want to make awful or half-thought suggestions, let alone anything that's basically self-serving. Users don't need to make suggestion threads for a specific matter in order to discuss a specific matter.
Or they could use the default option of disallowing comments. Else, if it's specific friends with the same tastes they could just use Steam Chat or discord PMs. There are always options if people are overly worried but want to share their opinion(s) on such games. Afterall, you'll still see who on your friends list has the same game as you if on the store page, so if you have that interest you could ask them directly.
Reviews are moreover to help anyone decide to purchase or not, limiting viewership is not really helping very much - though if they want friends-only sure, why not - but it still would be better to help as many as possible decide if a purchase was worth it or not.
That I agree on, hence why I stated that it's either all or nothing and it should be reflected on the purpose of a review. So either the ascii/meme reviews all should be removed or there should be an option to make a review private. Either way, the value is the same.
As I said, I disagree that a meme review has an extra point of value.
I already said, they have the same value: adding to the average rating. Since both don't add actual substance related to the game, they have the same value. The "entertainment" value is a made up parameter.
To you. But there are people in the steam community that do apply value to those mem reviews. As evidenced by the upvotes and awards a lot of them seem to get.
So if nothing else They incrememnt the aggregate, and they provide a point of audience satisfaction/engagement. That audience engagement is rather important to Steam.
They have the same value when adding to the rating. But only one of them also has an impact on audience engagement. Which is something important to dev/pubs and Steam.
WHy expend the extra energy to allow for something that is measurably lesser in effect, and potential.?
I'd rather they put that time into figuring out how to inche the standards up a few notches rather than lowering it.
Private reviews that only add to the average rating also have an audience.
For the purpose of the review system they add the same value.
There are people that only consider the rating, for those people private reviews that add to the average rating have value.
So either entertain both groups that only care about the rating, or none.
Dragging in irrelevant factors doesn't enhance an argument, it merely creates more fluff.
The point is: Both ascii/meme reviews and private/friends-only reviews add the same value to the average rating and have the same added substance to be a game review.
How do you measure the audience for something that no audience is exposed to?
And the meme reviews add the same PLUS entertainment value. Which is reflected in the not insignificant audience engagement some of them get.
And the Meme reviews also satisfy them. Again. circle within a circle.
But as said The meme reviews satisfy those people just as well. if you're going to have a review. And deveote resources to storing and displaying it. Why would you chose the one that only satisfies one group. as oppiosed to the one that satisfies that same group equally *and* another group.
On all metrics the me reviews either equal or outperform the private reviews.
Dragging in irrelevant factors doesn't enhance an argument, it merely creates more fluff.[/quote]
Audience/engagement is not an irrelevant factor. It is in fact quite a powerful force.
But only one of that provides user engagement.. Hence why one of those things should be given less weight . Non?
The audience is exposed to the rating.
Entertainment value is irrelevant.
Different circle. Someone who wants to private their review has a different approach than someone who creates meme reviews, but the end result is the same. Allowing one group but not the other on arbitrary, irrelevant reasons is BS.
They're equal, hence I stated "either you keep both or neither".
Audience/engagement is not an irrelevant factor. It is in fact quite a powerful force.[/quote]
It's an irrelevant factor when it comes to the purpose and the value within that purpose.
Private reviews adding to the average score also are a powerful force, after all they have impact. Just as the meme reviews. No difference, no reason to treat them differently.
But only one of that provides user engagement.. Hence why one of those things should be given less weight . Non? [/quote]
They provide the same user engagement: Adding to the average rating. The fluff of "entertainment value" is, as I said, irrelevant to the point.
Anyway, we won't agree on this. Ascii/meme reviews have the same value as a private review and both have the same substance effect. All the added fluff in the discussion is irrelevant when it comes to that point.
If such a feature ever becomes implemented.
An audience is also exposed to a flasher on a street corner.
Point is how do you differentiate that auudieance from the meme audience. Because they are fundamentally the same.
Many professional reviewers would disagree with you on that.
And they can put a dollar valuue to their arguement.
Different circles but concentric circles none the less.
You have a group of people who want to increment a number. and you have a group of people who want to incrememnt a number with minimal effort and not be seen. One set is a subset of the other.
Already shown where the meme reviews add value. So there is no need to keep both. When one does the same job as the other plus more. why would you expend any resources to implement the lesser option?
It's an irrelevant factor when it comes to the purpose and the value within that purpose.[/quote]
The purpose of reviews , at least one purpose ios to genrate awareness and publicity/public awareness of a product. Ergo something that garners a measurable degree of public attention and engagement is far more valuable to Valve and the dev/pub than something that doesn't. Again this can be observed in the market place.
And they shouldn't hence why I'm against the feature. Hence why my caveat basically removes the impact of the lesser.. The effect of the wholly selfish review is confined to rthe person writing the review.
Yes but they do not provide the same potential for user engagement which makes one less worthwhile to valve and the dev/pubs than the other.
Hence why the one that has the greater potential for impact.. should be given the greater weight.
Plus at the end of the day. It would also look a little shady and questionable to users. I mean what'd you think if you went to a game with a 95% user score but then realized that a half orf even a third of the reviews were invisible...
I dunno. about you but that'd immediately start bringing to mind. SHill reviews.
Or I'd at least have considerably more suspscion of the the aggregate score since. you never know how many are hidden versus how many aren't.
OP. Games generally don't benefit from one or even a hundred extra thumbs up. What they benefit from are well written reviews to go along with those up or down votes. Hence why you'd be better off just upvoting a review you like, a review that says what you want it to say. That works within the system, has a greater effect and impact on users and actually generates more user engagement which steam and dev/pyubs like.
TYhe secret vote literally only just makes a number go higher, I mean if you can't be bothered to even do the minimum effort of a meme review...and you can admit its because you have nothing new to say... you might as well say nothing.