Steam should have a "mixed" option on reviews.

[AdahnGorion]

As the title says, the positive/negative extremes often leave me to never do reviews on game, that I actually want to review.

A mixed review would give us an option to be rather neutral and showcase the positive/negative sides when they are both pretty even (for us in a subjective manner ofc)

I simply can´t understand, why it has to be either positive or negative.. It also ends up with a lot of people posting one of those two extremes, while saying "I want to give a mixed, but I gave it a or


Do other people agree with me on this? or are people happy enough with all the two extremes (negative/positive)

[AdahnGorion]

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

As the title says, the positive/negative extremes often leave me to never do reviews on game, that I actually want to review.

How so. Do you recommend or not recommend the game. If you would sex Mixed, then the answer to the question is 'No'.

A mixed review would give us an option to be rather neutral and showcase the positive/negative sides when they are both pretty even (for us in a subjective manner ofc)

That's not being neutral.. that's being indecisive. Neutral means you don't bring any biases into your review process. It doesn't mean you can't say yea or nay at the end of a review.

I simply can´t understand, why it has to be either positive or negative.. It also ends up with a lot of people posting one of those two extremes, while saying "I want to give a mixed, but I gave it a or

Because the question relates to an action (recommending). One either performs a specified action or does not perform a specified action.

One either stands, or one does not stand.

And they aren't 'extremes' They are halves of a spectrum.
If I say a company is profitable, do you you immediately conclude that the company has made a million dollars in profit? If I say a company is non-profitable or operating at a loss, do you assume they are millions in debt?

Do other people agree with me on this? or are people happy enough with all the two extremes (negative/positive)

Happy with the wide range provided.

I don´t think you can be fully objective, that is why I include the word biased (we are all biased by our enviroment and subjective taste) my point about mixed, is that I can see both positive and negative aspects of a game, but not enough to ie. recommend it, but also not enough to fully discurage people from trying it.. I think the current options are too extreme.



From what you aruge, maybe it should not really be called reviews? maybe it should just be called "recommendations" and then remove being able to write..


https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/reviews

Reviews are an easy way for customers to share their experience with your product, and to describe how your game or software has matched their expectations. Customer expectations can be set any number of ways—through the marketing on the product page itself, through gameplay videos or stills, and through pre-release copies sent to press, etc. It can be helpful to use reviews as a feedback channel to understand if expectations are being set and met correctly.


In many ways, we could even argue whom the reviews are meant for.

[Crazy Tiger]

I have no issue with the current system, I have no issue with it having another option.

Personally I don't care much about the "ratings" and I think that most people tend to put way too much emphasis on them anyway.

[Start_Running]

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

I don´t think you can be fully objective, that is why I include the word biased (we are all biased by our enviroment and subjective taste) my point about mixed, is that I can see both positive and negative aspects of a game, but not enough to ie. recommend it, but also not enough to fully discurage people from trying it.. I think the current options are too extreme.

You already gave your true answer though. You don't see enough positive to recommend it.
Also don't assume your thumbs down will discourage people. It might very well have the opposite.

From what you aruge, maybe it should not really be called reviews? maybe it should just be called "recommendations" and then remove being able to write..

The question you are asked, is "Would you recommend the game?" So you can think of it as a review that requires a recommendation or a recommendation that requires a review.

In many ways, we could even argue whom the reviews are meant for.

That's a decision for you to make when writing. SOme people write imagining that the audience is like themselves, others imagine that the audience is completely different.

The point ios to recommend or not can be seen as your conclusion, how you get to that conclusion is where the real meat of the matter is.

I don't give any review with two or three words, any weight in my decision making

[AdahnGorion]

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

I don´t think you can be fully objective, that is why I include the word biased (we are all biased by our enviroment and subjective taste) my point about mixed, is that I can see both positive and negative aspects of a game, but not enough to ie. recommend it, but also not enough to fully discurage people from trying it.. I think the current options are too extreme.

You already gave your true answer though. You don't see enough positive to recommend it.
Also don't assume your thumbs down will discourage people. It might very well have the opposite.

From what you aruge, maybe it should not really be called reviews? maybe it should just be called "recommendations" and then remove being able to write..

The question you are asked, is "Would you recommend the game?" So you can think of it as a review that requires a recommendation or a recommendation that requires a review.

In many ways, we could even argue whom the reviews are meant for.

That's a decision for you to make when writing. SOme people write imagining that the audience is like themselves, others imagine that the audience is completely different.

The point ios to recommend or not can be seen as your conclusion, how you get to that conclusion is where the real meat of the matter is.

I don't give any review with two or three words, any weight in my decision making

My point is, then they should not be "reviews" again.. not that I think most actually put up constructive reviews anyway, but I want to be able to showcase, that I am mixed towards recommending it... There is nothing more to it.

I understand your points. I welcome them to the debate.

[Crazy Tiger]

I've said on various occassions that the word "reviews" isn't the correct one. People that have complained about reviews and such seem to have a certain expectation due to the word used, as if they're informative pieces that are well written. On Steam, they're merely experiences and opinions and written by people who often aren't very good at writing pieces. So yeah, they should change the wording to reflect that.

[AdahnGorion]

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

I've said on various occassions that the word "reviews" isn't the correct one. People that have complained about reviews and such seem to have a certain expectation due to the word used, as if they're informative pieces that are well written. On Steam, they're merely experiences and opinions and written by people who often aren't very good at writing pieces. So yeah, they should change the wording to reflect that.

I have to admit that I am guilty of thinking that and often get annoyed by those oneliner reviews.. I guess it would be easier if the whole system was changed and there would be an actual review section.. Maybe I just need to start my own review site..

[DESTROYER]

Objective as possible is just something I fundamentally don't value from a review as it would make it read like the review of say a car and not, ya know, a piece of art.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

As the title says, the positive/negative extremes often leave me to never do reviews on game, that I actually want to review.

How so. Do you recommend or not recommend the game. If you would sex Mixed, then the answer to the question is 'No'.

If you would "sex Mixed", then we have a stranger problem on our hands.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

A mixed review would give us an option to be rather neutral and showcase the positive/negative sides when they are both pretty even (for us in a subjective manner ofc)

That's not being neutral.. that's being indecisive. Neutral means you don't bring any biases into your review process. It doesn't mean you can't say yea or nay at the end of a review.

That doesn't mean the yea or nay is actually the most important thing.

You can force an answer to a question, but that doesn't mean it's a good question.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

I simply can´t understand, why it has to be either positive or negative.. It also ends up with a lot of people posting one of those two extremes, while saying "I want to give a mixed, but I gave it a or

Because the question relates to an action (recommending). One either performs a specified action or does not perform a specified action.

If we go by your argument, then Steam is misrepresenting reviews by calling them positive and negative.

Alternatively, we can see that Steam intends them to be positive and negative and thus suggest a neutral option, discarding your argument.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

One either stands, or one does not stand.

And they aren't 'extremes' They are halves of a spectrum.

No, you just defined one state and then put everything that's not that state into a single category.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Happy with the wide range provided.

There's no "wide range" when there's only two choices.

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

You already gave your true answer though. You don't see enough positive to recommend it.
Also don't assume your thumbs down will discourage people. It might very well have the opposite.


The question you are asked, is "Would you recommend the game?" So you can think of it as a review that requires a recommendation or a recommendation that requires a review.


That's a decision for you to make when writing. SOme people write imagining that the audience is like themselves, others imagine that the audience is completely different.

The point ios to recommend or not can be seen as your conclusion, how you get to that conclusion is where the real meat of the matter is.

I don't give any review with two or three words, any weight in my decision making

My point is, then they should not be "reviews" again.. not that I think most actually put up constructive reviews anyway, but I want to be able to showcase, that I am mixed towards recommending it... There is nothing more to it.

I understand your points. I welcome them to the debate.

I've previously said, and I'll say again, that it ought to be possible to register recommendations without writing reviews, and to post reviews without selecting recommendations.

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

I've said on various occassions that the word "reviews" isn't the correct one. People that have complained about reviews and such seem to have a certain expectation due to the word used, as if they're informative pieces that are well written. On Steam, they're merely experiences and opinions and written by people who often aren't very good at writing pieces. So yeah, they should change the wording to reflect that.

I don't see the problem with the word "review", aside from the fact that a "review" can apparently be some meme one-liner attached to a recommendation -- which is a sort of review that should probably be removed anyway.

[AdahnGorion]

Quint the Alligator Snapper eredeti hozzászólása:

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

How so. Do you recommend or not recommend the game. If you would sex Mixed, then the answer to the question is 'No'.

If you would "sex Mixed", then we have a stranger problem on our hands.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

That's not being neutral.. that's being indecisive. Neutral means you don't bring any biases into your review process. It doesn't mean you can't say yea or nay at the end of a review.

That doesn't mean the yea or nay is actually the most important thing.

You can force an answer to a question, but that doesn't mean it's a good question.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Because the question relates to an action (recommending). One either performs a specified action or does not perform a specified action.

If we go by your argument, then Steam is misrepresenting reviews by calling them positive and negative.

Alternatively, we can see that Steam intends them to be positive and negative and thus suggest a neutral option, discarding your argument.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

One either stands, or one does not stand.

And they aren't 'extremes' They are halves of a spectrum.

No, you just defined one state and then put everything that's not that state into a single category.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Happy with the wide range provided.

There's no "wide range" when there's only two choices.

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

My point is, then they should not be "reviews" again.. not that I think most actually put up constructive reviews anyway, but I want to be able to showcase, that I am mixed towards recommending it... There is nothing more to it.

I understand your points. I welcome them to the debate.

I've previously said, and I'll say again, that it ought to be possible to register recommendations without writing reviews, and to post reviews without selecting recommendations.

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

I've said on various occassions that the word "reviews" isn't the correct one. People that have complained about reviews and such seem to have a certain expectation due to the word used, as if they're informative pieces that are well written. On Steam, they're merely experiences and opinions and written by people who often aren't very good at writing pieces. So yeah, they should change the wording to reflect that.

I don't see the problem with the word "review", aside from the fact that a "review" can apparently be some meme one-liner attached to a recommendation -- which is a sort of review that should probably be removed anyway.

That I could live with as well. (being able to post a review without a recommendations or not)

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Yeah, there's many ways to do this:
* reviews without recommendations
* reviews with a "neutral" or "mixed" status (seems to be the most common ways this suggestion is phrased)
* reviews with an "informational" status (consistent with the curation system)

The most important parts are that this be a selectable option for the reviewer and a selectable filter for the reader.

[AdahnGorion]

Quint the Alligator Snapper eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, there's many ways to do this:
* reviews without recommendations
* reviews with a "neutral" or "mixed" status (seems to be the most common ways this suggestion is phrased)
* reviews with an "informational" status (consistent with the curation system)

The most important parts are that this be a selectable option for the reviewer and a selectable filter for the reader.

I agree. This is a good post, I will pin it as the answer (to showcase what we debate)
This does not mean we can´t debate on ofc.

[Start_Running]

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

I've said on various occassions that the word "reviews" isn't the correct one. People that have complained about reviews and such seem to have a certain expectation due to the word used, as if they're informative pieces that are well written. On Steam, they're merely experiences and opinions and written by people who often aren't very good at writing pieces. So yeah, they should change the wording to reflect that.

I have to admit that I am guilty of thinking that and often get annoyed by those oneliner reviews.. I guess it would be easier if the whole system was changed and there would be an actual review section.. Maybe I just need to start my own review site..

A review will either be a recommendation or not even if it isn't stated. It takes a considerable degree of training and practice to keep our feelings from spilling over into our writing.


The point is here that the recommendation is simply clarity. And at the end of rthe day the reviews and their requirements are what Valve deems to be most useful to their purposes.

Starting your own revuiew site would not be a bad thing. or you could create a review group on Steam. Thing is. The question of mixed is rather irrelevant. All reviews, are mixed because I wager no one has ever played a game that didn't have a few niggling negatives that annoyed them. The question of yea or nay simply asks if the positiove points out weighed the negative points. It asks you to perform an internal evaluation to go along with the enumeration.

Informational is anothe redundant one since all reviews are informational. They all provide some information.

Once you stop seeing things as a gradient as opposed to extremes then you realize that the system is quite flexible. You can state which side of the gradient you're not on and then explain why you're on the side you are.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

A review will either be a recommendation or not even if it isn't stated.

So you can decide what to do with neutral reviews on your own; you don't need Steam to bin them for you.

Heck, given that you've previously argued that anyone who would use a neutral option is dishonest, you can always just ignore all such reviews.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

The point is here that the recommendation is simply clarity. And at the end of rthe day the reviews and their requirements are what Valve deems to be most useful to their purposes.

It's more like, whatever Valve has currently has on hand, which isn't guaranteed to be perfectly fit for their needs anyway. Don't idealize them.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Starting your own revuiew site would not be a bad thing. or you could create a review group on Steam.

Wouldn't serve well the many other people who (1) write reviews on Steam and (2) read reviews on Steam.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

The question of yea or nay simply asks if the positiove points out weighed the negative points. It asks you to perform an internal evaluation to go along with the enumeration.

No, Steam's review system doesn't have these lofty philosophical considerations. It just throws reviews into positive and negative categories, and that's all.

You've previously given an example of a meme one-liner review. What "internal evaluation" goes with that, or the many other meme one-liner reviews already in existence? Does the Steam review system actually capture said "internal evaluation"? No it doesn't.

Meanwhile, for those people who do said "internal evaluation" and find that they have a neutral opinion on the product, you'd rather they NOT leave their reviews, because you don't like their opinion.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Informational is anothe redundant one since all reviews are informational. They all provide some information.

But Steam has that as one of three mutually exclusive options for each curator review, despite all three options being "informational". This argument of yours is tautological, not meaningful.

Start_Running eredeti hozzászólása:

Once you stop seeing things as a gradient as opposed to extremes then you realize that the system is quite flexible.

Once the system stops forcing things into extremes, then the system will more properly represent that gradient.

[[N]ebsun]

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

I don´t think you can be fully objective, that is why I include the word biased (we are all biased by our enviroment and subjective taste) my point about mixed, is that I can see both positive and negative aspects of a game, but not enough to ie. recommend it, but also not enough to fully discurage people from trying it.. I think the current options are too extreme.

Reviews are based on your personal experience - there is almost zero "objectivity" involved.
That's the point, you are giving your personal opinion about your experience with the game.

If it's not a strong enough opinion, is it really worth writing (or reading) - a reader wants to know why they should or shouldn't buy the game or if there were any issues with it...
A review that says "meh" doesn't have any impact on that.

[Gwarsbane]

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

Seretti eredeti hozzászólása:

It is a yes or no question, as said by brian9824. Use your words to explain your thoughts.

Your "I don't know" to a question like "Do you recommend this?" isn't really helpful at all, at least to me.

As I said above.. sometimes I can´t recommend, but not say stay away.

Then that would be a no... because you can't recommend it.

Then you go into the text area and explain why you can't recommend it. If its because of price, or a feature or lack of a feature or what ever, then people can decide if thats a game stopper to them.

So if you are on the fence, wait some time, play it some more then decide but with what you said above, it doesn't sound like you are on the fence, because you say "I can't recommend it".