Jackal Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:03pm
forcing new versions means mods wont work long term,
allow us to pause a version or stop updates completely, stop forcing updates on us.
all future games will mean all mods will be immediately incompatible with no choice to stop an update or prevent it. making entire games and playthroughs unplayable
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Showing 1-15 of 174 comments
Start_Running Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:07pm 
Ask the dev/pubs of the game. Mods are literally not their business or concern. Their concern is making sure their product is up to date and as stable and bug free as they can make it. You after market additions are your own problems.

That's how it be with modding.
Jackal Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:09pm 
nope this is a feed back to the steam platform, making it publisher basis isn't a thing, let us control and maintain our own game versions and not force us to take mandatory unnecessary updates which can break our game, or ruin our saves. even with fully released games this happens.
Start_Running Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:22pm 
Originally posted by Jackal:
nope this is a feed back to the steam platform, making it publisher basis isn't a thing,
It is. Thats how the platform was designed from the ground up. Simple as that. Valve's policy has always been to give dev/pubs as much control as possible while providing the tools and options to implement whatever they want.

let us control and maintain our own game versions and not force us to take mandatory unnecessary updates which can break our game, or ruin our saves. even with fully released games this happens.
Actually the updates don't break the game. They break your unlicensed after market additions to the game.

and unfortunately dev seem to demonstrably prefer mandatory. Solves a lot of their problems.
Last edited by Start_Running; Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:23pm
Originally posted by Jackal:
allow us to pause a version or stop updates completely, stop forcing updates on us.
all future games will mean all mods will be immediately incompatible with no choice to stop an update or prevent it. making entire games and playthroughs unplayable
Yes.

This.



Meantime, though, since Steam's shown itself to be unreliable in regards to allowing mods and customization, I suggest taking note of the following suggestions, which I've posted elsewhere in regards to anything related to Steam's practice of forcing updates:

1. Set Steam to only update on launch and then play the game without running Steam.

2. Set Steam to only update on launch and then play the game in Offline Mode.

3. Back up the game files of the present version, then whenever an update hits, replace the game files with your backup copy.

4. Modify files and/or file permissions used by Steam in order to trick Steam into thinking that the game is updated and/or prohibit Steam from updating the game.

5. Download old versions of the game from Steam's servers, if they're still available.

6. Buy the game from a site that sells it DRM-free.

Some of these options may or may not be available at any given time for any particular game.

But these are options you can try without needing to wait for Steam and/or any particular game developers to make other options available to you.

The conventional wisdom around here is that Steam isn't just gonna let people not update their games, so that's why users have to take matters into their own hands to properly manage their games and mods.





Originally posted by Start_Running:
Originally posted by Jackal:
nope this is a feed back to the steam platform, making it publisher basis isn't a thing,
It is. Thats how the platform was designed from the ground up. Simple as that. Valve's policy has always been to give dev/pubs as much control as possible while providing the tools and options to implement whatever they want.
Except that's not Valve's policy, considering that they just messed up how patch notes work for devs (not to mention for players who want to read them, too).

Originally posted by Start_Running:
let us control and maintain our own game versions and not force us to take mandatory unnecessary updates which can break our game, or ruin our saves. even with fully released games this happens.
Actually the updates don't break the game. They break your unlicensed after market additions to the game.
Oh so now mods are "unlicensed after market additions" [sic].

You should probably be made aware that modding is one of the core features of PC gaming.

Then again, I've told you this before, many times, but you still ignore it.

Originally posted by Start_Running:
and unfortunately dev seem to demonstrably prefer mandatory. Solves a lot of their problems.
They don't "prefer mandatory". They just use what Steam offers because that's what Steam offers and Steam has the biggest customer base, like it or not.
Last edited by Quint the Alligator Snapper; Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:57pm
Mad Scientist Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:58pm 
Originally posted by Jackal:
nope this is a feed back to the steam platform
]Great, so let the modders update their mods when a game update rolls out instead of thinking this is Steams fault.

Originally posted by Jackal:
making it publisher basis isn't a thing, let us control and maintain our own game versions and not force us to take mandatory unnecessary updates which can break our game, or ruin our saves. even with fully released games this happens.
Devs have the option to make a "Branch" you can select which will not update, this is literally a tool at their disposal, ask the Devs to make a branch. They aren't obligated to, but might if asked.

This is all just a part of modders and users standard circle of things; games not made in an overly mod-friendly way will need the mods updated when the game updates, usually a line or few lines of code, push the update out and done. This is entirely normal for mods, and if you want to play a game that receives frequent updates, you just gotta get used to it or don't use mods until the game no longer receives updates.
Yzal Sep 25, 2021 @ 9:01pm 
No, it means mod makers need to update their mods.
Originally posted by Mr. Gentlebot:
Originally posted by Jackal:
nope this is a feed back to the steam platform
]Great, so let the modders update their mods when a game update rolls out instead of thinking this is Steams fault.
Originally posted by Lazy Dog:
No, it means mod makers need to update their mods.
No reason to prevent players from playing the game before the modders update their mods.

Originally posted by Mr. Gentlebot:
Originally posted by Jackal:
making it publisher basis isn't a thing, let us control and maintain our own game versions and not force us to take mandatory unnecessary updates which can break our game, or ruin our saves. even with fully released games this happens.
Devs have the option to make a "Branch" you can select which will not update, this is literally a tool at their disposal, ask the Devs to make a branch. They aren't obligated to, but might if asked.
Better to just do something with more immediate results.
76561198407601200 Sep 25, 2021 @ 9:26pm 
Originally posted by Jackal:
allow us to pause a version or stop updates completely, stop forcing updates on us.
all future games will mean all mods will be immediately incompatible with no choice to stop an update or prevent it. making entire games and playthroughs unplayable
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

From the ssa you signed.
2. LICENSES ⏶

A. General Content and Services License

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Steam may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Content and Services and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Content and Services may change over time. You consent to such automatic updating. You understand that this Agreement (including applicable Subscription Terms) does not entitle you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Content and Services associated with a particular Subscription, although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.
Start_Running Sep 25, 2021 @ 9:51pm 
Also OP. Given how long Steam has been around. It pretty much has worked long term.
Jackal Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:03am 
this dude busting out a contract talking about EULA which is just broad picture painted by lawyers to cover all angles for lawsuits. im talking about steam needing to allow us to stop updates, freeze them or prevent them altogether , we should have the choice to prevent downloads and forced downloads for bandwidth purposes, for game stability purposes, and for mods
the game i recently played pathfinder would keep pushing out updates that would fundamentally break the game and make it unplayable, and now we have no way to roll back versions or prevent a patch that may make the game worse
Crazy Tiger Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:09am 
Originally posted by Jackal:
im talking about steam needing to allow us to stop updates
The only thing Steam needs to do is provide access to the game, since that is what you purchased. Everything else is what you want. Yes, that difference is important.

Unless forced by laws, publishers massively deciding to drop Steam or users massively deciding to drop Steam, this won't change. As said, Steam is build as an auto-updater first by Valve and it's known that Valve believes in "always up-to-date". Seriously, don't expect options to become broader than they currently are. This has been asked for for over a decade now and considering how it still hasn't changed, that should tell you something.
HappyDog4you Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:17am 
Originally posted by Jackal:
this dude busting out a contract talking about EULA which is just broad picture painted by lawyers to cover all angles for lawsuits. im talking about steam needing to allow us to stop updates, freeze them or prevent them altogether , we should have the choice to prevent downloads and forced downloads for bandwidth purposes, for game stability purposes, and for mods
the game i recently played pathfinder would keep pushing out updates that would fundamentally break the game and make it unplayable, and now we have no way to roll back versions or prevent a patch that may make the game worse

i can see both sides' points of view but the reason software gets updated is for two primarily important reasons, security and adding more content in a game.

software security updates to the source code to patch against known exploits in a game that can remain hidden from anti-cheat detection software. sometimes this requires multiple files of source code to be partially rewritten in such a way that it's more protected against different kinds of data gathering software and code manipulation scripts.

sometimes the code rewrites make the game less smoother but also protects more against hacking. and that's why it's heavily encouraged for any mmo game developers to keep their software up to date with security (if they can).

i think it becomes a security risk if heavily populated mmo games release outdated versions of their games to people because it exposes that to hackers which then essentially can use that outdated version to break into more existing code.

when an update rolls out for a game it shifts all the bytes that hackers use to make hacks, breaking their scripts and causing them to need to rework on making a new script. and if the new update is a security patch then their method of data gathering to make the exploit might not even work anymore, rendering their tools to hack unusable.
Last edited by HappyDog4you; Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:20am
RiO Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:18am 
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:
Unless forced by laws

Which is already coming[eur-lex.europa.eu] - at least for the EU.

While it won't give EU citizens a right to any old version of digital content, when an update impairs their access to or use of digital content it will give them the legal right to either continue to use the earlier version they already had or terminate the contract and obtain a full refund.

Considering the latter would put a firm dent in Steam's earnings, you can bet Valve will steer towards the former.

Or perhaps more realistically: they'll do the quintessential Valve thing. I.e. they'll do nothing and wait for the EU or one of its member states to sue or fine them. Again. After which they'll course-correct. Again.
Last edited by RiO; Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:24am
Brian9824 Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:36am 
Originally posted by Jackal:
allow us to pause a version or stop updates completely, stop forcing updates on us.
all future games will mean all mods will be immediately incompatible with no choice to stop an update or prevent it. making entire games and playthroughs unplayable

Make a shortcut to the exe and put it on the desktop and run that shortcut after setting the game to update only on launch.

Works fine for games like Fallout 4 and Skyrim
HappyDog4you Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:42am 
the other side of the argument is that you paid for a game that you now think is updated in such a way that you feel that it's not what you initially paid for.

and that has EULA all over it. the content might be subject to change in way you like/dislike it and that you understand that when you purchase the game.

does it have flaws? yes. however, if that wasn't in place then people could technically claim to refund their game as soon as the next update comes out by claiming it's not what they initially paid for (loopholes). and loads of people would just abuse this.

so, even though i sympathise with you because you clearly have a product you bought which has been updated in a way you dislike, i would have to side with the current system to ensure game integrity stays secure to protect mmo's and to protect game development studios having to refund their games over an update.

i hope my answers are a good-enough, nice, informative manner.

i do, however, think you should be entitled to a refund if a game updates itself to have unethical content such as gambling, etc. if you bought a game that doesn't have gambling to protect yourself from gambling addiction then you deserve full right to refund a game.
Last edited by HappyDog4you; Sep 26, 2021 @ 4:43am
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Date Posted: Sep 25, 2021 @ 8:03pm
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