Faster Downloads with BitTorrent protocol.

[Vapor]

I'm very disappointed by download speeds.

I'm currently downloading a game update that should have finished in a couple minutes but I've been waiting over half an hour. The client says my peak speed was was about a fifth of what I consider to be my average download speed from other sites and services. On top of that, the download seems to suspend for several minutes at a time.

(I'm no novice to troubleshooting Internet connectivity but, yes, I did go over the troubleshooting tips looking for anything I might have missed. I've also tried several mirrors. Please note, I'm not posting in the Suggestions/Ideas section for troubleshooting advice.)

I am convinced that the problem lies with Steam's content servers being overwhelmed. Although I feel things could be improved, download speeds for normal game installs seem ...meh... tolerable. But, game updates are terrible. And, really, I'm not surprised. Some game updates are massive and hardware infrastructure is expensive. It isn't reasonable, from a business standpoint, for Valve to maintain the equipment needed for peak activity.

When a game update comes out, everyone I know who plays the game is downloading it at about the same time. The content servers are probably red-lining and traffic slowly tapers off as downloads finish and players move on to playing. During this time, we're all competing for the content server's bandwidth, reducing each other's speed.

If Steam were to offer "BitTorrent" as one of the download mirror options, the problem would become a feature. Using the BitTorrent protocol, more players downloading at once means faster downloads for everyone. There may be some technical hurdles but that's why I'm suggesting the option of BitTorrent rather a full replacement to the mirror system. For those that use BitTorrent to receive their games and updates, the limit to their download speed would be their own Internet connection rather than Valve's equipment. This is also beneficial for Valve because their servers will need to use far less bandwidth to distribute the same content to the same number of users.

So, that's my suggestion: A BitTorrent option.

[Vapor]

引用自 Start_Running：

Valve can already saturate your connection. . Meaning they can send data about as fast as your connection/ISP can handle.

Well I wish they would then. If they saturated my connection, I would've been playing a game instead of writing this post.

引用自 Start_Running：

Think of it this way. Valve already has their own proprietary torrent protiocol builtt into steam.

I'm not sure that's true. I recently looked into it, trying to figure out if I needed to forward ports to increase download speeds, and I didn't find any evidence Steam deviates from standard HTTP connections. That said, I haven't done any packet sniffing to be sure. Where's the sauce?

[Radene]

引用自 Satoru：

引用自 Radene：

Leeching is a thing....

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/2650881941764955398/#c2650881941765262846

I mean i'd be nice if you actually read the post you were replying to

Touché! Critical hit! Radene crumbles under Satoru's well-placed rhetoric assault! Satoru once again proves why he is the top dog on Steam forums, while Radene isn't!

ALL HAIL OUR LORD AND SAVIOR SATORU! ALL HAIL!

[Ettanin]

引用自 Vapor：

引用自 Start_Running：

Valve can already saturate your connection. . Meaning they can send data about as fast as your connection/ISP can handle.

Well I wish they would then. If they saturated my connection, I would've been playing a game instead of writing this post.

Not Valve's fault if your ISP doesn't have good peering agreements or is intentionally a cheapskate.

By the way, such ISPs are also often cutting down on BitTorrent traffic or are also badly peered to other consumer ISPs. so BitTorrent in fact won't help you.

[Vapor]

引用自 Ettanin：

引用自 Vapor：

Well I wish they would then. If they saturated my connection, I would've been playing a game instead of writing this post.

Not Valve's fault if your ISP doesn't have good peering agreements or is intentionally a cheapskate.

Maybe not but if that's the case then BitTorrent would help Valve work with me (and everyone else that uses my ISP and Steam) to get around my ISP's shenanigans.

[Radene]

引用自 Ettanin：

引用自 Vapor：

Well I wish they would then. If they saturated my connection, I would've been playing a game instead of writing this post.

Not Valve's fault if your ISP doesn't have good peering agreements or is intentionally a cheapskate.

Not Valve's fault, true. I mean, even if they implemented "You must have THIS much bandwidth and data to use this service", they're free to do so.

Hell, it would even give people who do have THIS much bandwidth and data a sort of an exclusivity ego boost. And if people don't have THIS much bandwidth and data, well, it sucks to be them, the losers, right?

(And don't get on my case, I gave 1Gb both ways with no data limit)

[Vapor]

引用自 Ettanin：

引用自 Vapor：

By the way, such ISPs are also often cutting down on BitTorrent traffic or are also badly peered to other consumer ISPs. so BitTorrent in fact won't help you.

BitTorrent traffic can be encrypted and it can be dynamically assigned to non-standard ports. So, if Valve is a little clever in implementing it, my ISP won't be able to necessarily determine I'm even using BitTorrent.

[Radene]

引用自 Vapor：

BitTorrent traffic can be encrypted and it can be dynamically assigned to non-standard ports. So, if Valve is a little clever in implementing it, my ISP won't be able to necessarily determine I'm even using BitTorrent.

ISPs aren't stupid.

[Satoru]

引用自 Radene：

引用自 Satoru：

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/2650881941764955398/#c2650881941765262846

I mean i'd be nice if you actually read the post you were replying to

Touché! Critical hit! Radene crumbles under Satoru's well-placed rhetoric assault! Satoru once again proves why he is the top dog on Steam forums, while Radene isn't!

ALL HAIL OUR LORD AND SAVIOR SATORU! ALL HAIL!

I mean you obviously didnt read it. Since you simultanously say they shoudl leech, yet somehow ignore the fact that torrenting by default doesnt do that. Then claim that torrenting woudl only download the data you wanted, despite thats not how torrenting works by default

So you not only didnt read the post, you also somehow dont know how torrenting works

[Radene]

引用自 Satoru：

引用自 Radene：

Touché! Critical hit! Radene crumbles under Satoru's well-placed rhetoric assault! Satoru once again proves why he is the top dog on Steam forums, while Radene isn't!

ALL HAIL OUR LORD AND SAVIOR SATORU! ALL HAIL!

I mean you obviously didnt read it. Since you simultanously say they shoudl leech, yet somehow ignore the fact that torrenting by default doesnt do that. Then claim that torrenting woudl only download the data you wanted, despite thats not how torrenting works by default

So you not only didnt read the post, you also somehow dont know how torrenting works

I mean, all of this is only relevant in Satoru mind while the rest of the world gets on with their lives.

Except for me, of course. You have defeated me fair and square, and I still await your demands for whatever tribute you want of me.

[Satoru]

Torrenting isnt goign to get you faster downloads. Steam already does what torrenting basically does. Which is simultaneous independent threads that download 'chunks' of data. Theyre larger than typical torrent chunks but the concept is pretty much idential to the only real benefit of how torrenting is potentially 'faster'. ITs why steam when downloading can kill low end routers that have tiny NAT tables.

Steam already does the equivalent of the one feature that potentially makes torrenting faster.

If your downloads are slow

1) its your ISP
2) your disk cant keep up with the IO requests
3) your CPU cant keep up with the decompression/patching

Torrenting isnt going to fix any of the above

[Nx Machina]

引用自 Vapor：

Just like HTTP, BitTorrent is a protocol, not a service. Unlike HTTP, it has security built into it in the form of data integrity checks (just like like when Steam verifies the game files). Even if someone were to try to inject malicious code into the torrent's data, the protocol would eliminate it because it doesn't match the hash distributed by Steam. Using BitTorrent to download illegal software from a pirate website may (and probably will) get you a virus. Integrating BitTorrent into the Steam client would be as safe as the current method. Plus, as I mentioned, it would benefit Valve because their bandwidth costs would be significantly reduced.

There is no requirement for Steam to join BitTorrent nor to expose its customer base to potential viruses and malware.

Assuming it is safe does not make it safe. BitTorrent uses tracking and I do not require to be tracked nor have my privacy invaded nor to open ports I do not require opening.

Integration is not required, you changing your download location is.

[Start_Running]

引用自 Vapor：

引用自 Start_Running：

Valve can already saturate your connection. . Meaning they can send data about as fast as your connection/ISP can handle.

Well I wish they would then. If they saturated my connection, I would've been playing a game instead of writing this post.

Your COnnection/ISP.
FUn story, very few residential ISP packages will guarantee given amount of bandwidth.
In all liklihood your ISP is the SPeedbump.

引用自 Start_Running：

Think of it this way. Valve already has their own proprietary torrent protiocol builtt into steam.

I'm not sure that's true. I recently looked into it, trying to figure out if I needed to forward ports to increase download speeds, and I didn't find any evidence Steam deviates from standard HTTP connections. That said, I haven't done any packet sniffing to be sure. Where's the sauce?

And none of that would tell you anything anyway. Thats the funny thing about proprioetary software. The output can seldom be used to determin the process.

As others have said. Valve will saturate your connection as far as your ISP's network can handle.

[Vapor]

引用自 Satoru：

Torrenting isnt goign to get you faster downloads. Steam already does what torrenting basically does. Which is simultaneous independent threads that download 'chunks' of data. Theyre larger than typical torrent chunks but the concept is pretty much idential to the only real benefit of how torrenting is potentially 'faster'. ITs why steam when downloading can kill low end routers that have tiny NAT tables.

Steam already does the equivalent of the one feature that potentially makes torrenting faster.

As I mentioned, I'm not sure that's the case. I've already looked into it and didn't find any evidence to support that. Can you provide a source so I can look into it again?

引用自 Satoru：

If your downloads are slow

1) its your ISP
2) your disk cant keep up with the IO requests
3) your CPU cant keep up with the decompression/patching

Torrenting isnt going to fix any of the above

1: If it is, its due to throttling and BitTorrent might fix that.
2: LOL no.
3. LOL no.

引用自 Start_Running：

Your COnnection/ISP.
FUn story, very few residential ISP packages will guarantee given amount of bandwidth.
In all liklihood your ISP is the SPeedbump.

My bandwidth from any other source is five times faster than steam. Whatever I'm guaranteed, Steam and only Steam doesn't keep up with whatever else I might try to download. Yes, my ISP COULD be the problem here but, if that's the case, its because they're choking my connection to Steam and only Steam.

Again, I am not in Suggestions/Ideas for troubleshooting advice. I appreciate the attempt to help but that's not what I'm here to discuss. I'm here to make a suggestion for an OPTIONAL improvement to Steam which should help some people download games faster and reduce stress on Valve's servers.

Satoru, you seem to be against having an option to implement BitTorrent into Steam's methods for distribution. Is the only reason you seems to be against it because you believe it would be redundant? If that's true, that's definitely a valid consideration. Can you point me to some kind of official release verifying that it is? Is there any other reason why you don't support the suggestion?

[Ettanin]

引用自 Vapor：

BitTorrent traffic can be encrypted and it can be dynamically assigned to non-standard ports. So, if Valve is a little clever in implementing it, my ISP won't be able to necessarily determine I'm even using BitTorrent.

https://github.com/arvidn/libtorrent/issues/1489

already broken by ISPs.

BitTorrent inherently doesn't support TLS because TLS requires a valid and trusted server certificate to function against Man-in-the-middle, something that's impossible to provide in a peer-to-peer scenario.

[Radene]

引用自 Vapor：

Satoru, you seem to be against having an option to implement BitTorrent into Steam's methods for distribution. Is the only reason you seems to be against it because you believe it would be redundant? If that's true, that's definitely a valid consideration. Can you point me to some kind of official release verifying that it is? Is there any other reason why you don't support the suggestion?

Satoru is against everything; his entire act is calling people stupid or intellectually inferior. Don't beat yourself up over what he says.