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討論區規矩與守則
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we had rep on the old SPUF forums, guess what? it wasnt used the way it should have been used.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/1769259642866107785/#c1769259642867079060
https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/1769259642863429850/#c1769259642863472201
then, why do you assume that I want to co-operate with the community ?
I didn't open a Steam account to chat ?
if my trust factor is low, it is already low. the suggested idea won't change my trust factor.
please, think before you post. however, I thank you for the attention you showed, going through my posts.
fare thee well
https://ibb.co/9V1XVr8
what is this ?
this is the problem.
and what gives you the impression that scammers wouldnt start abusing a rep system?
finally... someone finally prompted a forum discussion. this is the thing I want to see here. not necessarily me being a part of it.
I just want to say this regarding your question:
Precautions are always taken everywhere, everytime. For example a medication against an illness.
Medications may not necessarily work on the patient. So medications can be changed by the MD, etc. - as long as the patient is up and alive.
Granted this example: If we have let time do the solution for us, people will get eventually bored, et cetera, and the forums&workshop&game reviews will get smarter... Only and only if we want to hasten things up, we must focus on the treatment - whether it will work or not.
So, I think your question is out of scene here - I explained why I felt that way above. I want to ask a question in return though, which I think more fitting for the setup:
"What can happen if the rep system won't work? Can the damage be lethal to Steam or even Valve ?"
The problem with rep systems is multiple layered
1. it gives a false sense of security, sthg that scammers and in general "bad actors" within the community love to exploit at their advantage. Just look at how many ppl still believe that someone having bunch of worthless "+rep" on their profile comments apparently means anything (it doesnt)
2. Such system would need constant supervision and would require more unnecessary workload than what the global moderators already have at hand.
3. The old SPUF forums had rep and it didnt worked, plain and simply but it was abused to hell and beyond.
Always keep in mind that there are ppl out there with enough free time on their hands to try and find every possible ways to game the system at their advantage and ultimately this is the crux with any systems like those: they are not failproofs.
The best way to deal with those ppl is to report them as many as possible and they will get dealt with. The ultimate solution would be to remove trading/ remove the API altogether as it would cut out a layer of attack for scammers
To sum up, the biggest danger of such is the false sense of security which in turn would make ppl finger pointing at Valve over it because "I got scammed by RandomJoe who had high reps!!" and has the risk of opening a completely new can of worms altogether.
Sadly, after what happened with the /me command / winter coal event/ steam greenlight /etc : I simply have no faith that it wouldnt be misused in every possible way
good. I want to start with the final paragraph, and try to summarize a result - yet it is too early to come to a conclusion.
So, the first thing is, everybody knows we are "not" looking for a failproof system here. Just a system to deploy, and before it eventually and certainly will fail according to current human society setup, the "deployers", the Valve employees should have time and assets remaining to deploy a new one - to cure any problems they would at "that" time, which is not visible from now. This is of course if the strategy fits, that was why I asked for a harm analysis.
This needs to be cured, and it needs to be started to getting cured. The "virus" minded people out here trying to harm people's attentions of course will develop new ways to overcome the system, the battle can only be won by staying one step ahead. Not in current situation though. The moderators and The scammers&People who have no clue just looking for attention, currently is sitting in the same line - nobody can expect the moderators to be one step ahead for now - it looks like they left this to wheels of time.
I want to go through your inputs lastly, in case people have questions similar to those you wrote.
1.-2. They will continue to exist - only if the suggested system will drop them out as well writing +reps etc. in other's profiles. I really don't want to see c___ or d___ ASCII art when going through player profiles. there are better websites for those which are full HD.
But as far as I can tell from the official explanation of trust factor system (which rep system is something you got your mind fixed at, not me), is something like an automated software - where automation comes from the fact that no other human other than the one using the account can effect the account's trust factor <- this I am not sure about, yet I don't think +reps on profiles or forum upvotes etc. won't or if it does currently, shouldn't even the trust factor. Please read the official trust factor explanation to get a much more credible knowledge about it.
So, as it is automated, no supervision should be necessary at all.
3. I didn't know about SPUF before you first posted it much above this thread. But as far as I can tell from what search engine finds about it, it was NOT official no ? for some time, until it was merged ?
People spend thousands of $ in this software infrastructure. So, the reason the system similar in SPUF failing may be just unrelated for official Steam community wirework (which, rep system isNEVER the same with trust factor - remember, Steam has much more clear access to game buys, game achievements, etc. where the user profile might be set private at for unofficial resources ).
"To sum up, the biggest danger of such is the false sense of security which in turn would make ppl finger pointing at Valve over it because "I got scammed by RandomJoe who had high reps!!" and has the risk of opening a completely new can of worms altogether.
Sadly, after what happened with the /me command / winter coal event/ steam greenlight /etc : I simply have no faith that it wouldnt be misused in every possible way "
^
you edited your post and these are new.
you see, Valve still and will hold the HAMMER here. And it is far more easier to crush 1-2 high reps than 10000s of level 2 accounts opened each day that is only for purpose of scam.
And who can disagree with the fact that Valve with get less enjoyment to HAMMER down high rep RandomJoe who has 120930912 $ of games and items in his account compared to level 2 "just f2p games" scammers ?
This is software age. And proving something is quite easy, as fooling is. We are humans, independent of each other. RandomJoe should know not to meddle with risky malware to have him implanted in his PC and/or from his account to leave fake traces of transaction between him and the proposed complainer.
I suggested it to REDUCE the work that Valve should put into people that deserves NONE of their attention, players such as you and me deserve it - because we came here just to spend some time, our intentions proven by our involvements.
If we are to create scenarios.... Please relax to know the fact that there are INFINITE number of them. Creating scenarios is unhealthy - and should be abandoned.
That was why I asked from "current" perspective what could be the harm if it was deployed today, without having scenarios involved relating to variables that do not exist - so to get an idea if the suggestion is deploy-worthy-until-fails, or just full of harm from the good-go.
Thank you for the discussion.
Spam tends to follow very similar formats, tends to be quite unlike regular posts and by it's very nature tends to occur a lot in a short timeframe all of which make it very possible to detect in an automated fashion.
Even if you just went the third+ copy of any post with identical text will be auto flagged you would catch a lot of spam and likely not impact any actual users (since cross posting is ALSO not allowed).
Personally, I don't think implementing something like this on steams forums is a good idea at all.
If a person buys a game and has a problem with it, one of the first lines of support is to go to that games forum and ask for help. This could seriously interfere with the persons ability to do that. Not to mention that it sounds way over complicated/overkill for the vast majority of game forums and possibly something people could abuse.
good solution for spams... but will fail with game review/forum moderation involving flame posts that has no constructive value.
yes, it will be a problem if it'd like the way you stated. but the "specific" problems about a game should already be "moderated" by the game company(publisher&developer) itself rather than loading this unto Steam moderators' shoulders. so, this can be worked around.