Forums are too strict.

[The Gut]

I can't post topics on these forums without mods locking them.


Why don't you guys loosen up your rules, because all I see here is a bunch of people agreeing with each other, then when someone gets mad about a game, they complain, and get their topics locked and get banned.

This is not a Public Forum, its a watered down group of cultists and fanboys defended by developers and mods, who only seek fanboys and oust everyone who does not like their bad decisions both on game making and moderation of these forums.

Constructive Posting is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t concept and is being largely abused here, as an arbitrary way to selectively ban people who are disliked, have an objective complaint, or flat out say unpopular things. These is no real rule here, its just a nebulous thing to kick people out. Bad bad stuff guys.

Baiting people.
What in the actual ♥♥♥♥ is baiting people?

How about let people argue and hash is out on the forums instead of treat people like they are your kids, and somehow you are some moral authority on what is right and wrong?

Oh wait, you're just going to say you have to keep the boards sterile and clean or others will be driven off, right?
Wrong, you have a language filter and explicit rules, most of which I do not break but somehow these forums are so soft and petty that I cannot talk about anything interesting or controversial here without worrying about reporting and mods locking or banning me.

Does anyone else see this as a problem or am I just one unique all powerful person who makes people do things driving them beyond their own self control and therefor pose a danger to this online community.

Give me a break people.....

[The Gut]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Tito Shivan:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

I will make it ANYTHING GOES forums.

That's a utopy.
I've seen it happen over and over in and outside of Steam. Eventually every 'anything goes' place ends requiring a set of rules and enforcers to limit 'something' from going.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

I would keep the rules as they are except I would change the non constructive rule, and the baiting people into arguments rule.

We have an Off Topic forum for threads non game or Steam related.
Also there's a fundamental distinction between discussing a subject with someone and baiting someone into an argument.
Both actions set different grounds for discussing the same subject and only one of those is prone to raise the levels of toxicity while discussing the subject. Hence why baiting is not well received in the forums.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

but disagreeing with people on stuff in games or decision developers make is not trolling.

As I said earlier it all depends on following the rules or not. You can disagree with someone and discuss a subject all within the boundaries of the forum rules. I've done it for years and years before even becoming a mod around here.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

If someone says they love a Kawaii Lol girl samurai and gushes all over the forums about it, then I can turn right around and make a post about why I hate that same character.

And as long as both threads are constructive and within the rules they can go on.

Alright cool.
As I said before, I am giving some credit here and now for this post not being deleted. I guess I am currently following the rules.

On game specific forums it’s likely to be different though given the large quantity of people who identify with games and get very upset and the slightest sneeze in the wrong direction about their game.

[AmsterdamHeavy]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

On game specific forums it’s likely to be different though given the large quantity of people who identify with games and get very upset and the slightest sneeze in the wrong direction about their game.

...and when you are in a game forum, you are in a dev/publisher's embassy on Steam.

They pay for that forum. They decide how to mod that forum, and that forum is a gateway to new and potential customers.

So, NO, most publishers dont appreciate you going into their house and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the middle of the floor.

No business is going to let you sit inside of it and cost them revenue. The cops get called if you wont leave. In this case you get banned.

You dont need to break a law to get kicked out of a business; all you need to do is an act like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ by making other customers unhappy.


Edit: Just came across this thread. Posting it for reference purposes. This is an example of what I am talking about. If you think that posting this kind of thread in a game forum, where the devs can talk to their users, and new people come to ask questions is "OK", then ya, we found the problem.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1741138420011375897/

Do I personally have a problem with this? No, I dont. But Im not trying to sell games and keep people happy, either. From their perspective it is the equivalent of standing inside the door at Starbucks and telling every person who comes in that the coffee sucks, the pastries are stale, and they hate baby seals if they buy anything there.

They obviously arent going to tolerate that. No business would (that wants to be successful).

[Crazy Tiger]

I haven't read everything since this post, so if it has been addressed, apologies.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

Keep in mind that game hubs are run by the game developers and that they not only appoint their own moderators, they also can have their own ruleset.

That said, while there are bad actors, it often has to do with the tone. People can have various opinions and disagree with other people, Valve and game devs, but when they start posting one-liners without substance ("The game sucks", "Steam sucks") there is nothing to discuss. There is also no need for the posts, as they add nothing and have no meaning.

If people voice their opinion in an attacking way, there is also no need to post. People should calm down and have the decency to talk in a normal, regular manner.

Same goes for controversial subjects. If it's a subject which is known to be volatile, there is no reason to post is as it's only there to generate controversy. Again, no need for them.

I see your point, but I disagree that people should just remain calm.

People do not remain calm when I criticize games they love, they outright flame and use one liners, and bacause its in defense of the game or the developer, it is therefore okay.

Not cool.

When people make bad things or features in games, I get angry, and rightfully so. Then people want to resort to being insular fanboyism and boot anyone out who doesn't identify with the game under scrutiny.

As for tone, okay, there are some work arounds and being civil is always a good choice, however refer to the aforementioned paragraph, they come in and flame and Mods take the side of the 'Pro their game' people.

Personally I don't see the point in getting angry over forum posts. But that could be me.

The thing is, while you are allowed to criticize things (in my opinion and certainly if it is constructive), others are allowed to defend it (same). If people feel things are okay, why shouldn't they say that if it is their opinion?
You might have to provide examples for me, but currently it reads like "I want to criticize things and people who disagree with me are fanboys". Things go both ways, so if they are fanboys for their opinion, that automatically makes you a hater for your opinion.

But as I said, examples might shed a different light on that. Hence why I mentioned that it depends on how things are being said.

[The Gut]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย AmsterdamHeavy:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

On game specific forums it’s likely to be different though given the large quantity of people who identify with games and get very upset and the slightest sneeze in the wrong direction about their game.

...and when you are in a game forum, you are in a dev/publisher's embassy on Steam.

They pay for that forum. They decide how to mod that forum, and that forum is a gateway to new and potential customers.

So, NO, most publishers dont appreciate you going into their house and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the middle of the floor.

No business is going to let you sit inside of it and cost them revenue. The cops get called if you wont leave. In this case you get banned.

You dont need to break a law to get kicked out of a business; all you need to do is an act like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ by making other customers unhappy.


Edit: Just came across this thread. Posting it for reference purposes. This is an example of what I am talking about. If you think that posting this kind of thread in a game forum, where the devs can talk to their users, and new people come to ask questions is "OK", then ya, we found the problem.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1741138420011375897/

Do I personally have a problem with this? No, I dont. But Im not trying to sell games and keep people happy, either. From their perspective it is the equivalent of standing inside the door at Starbucks and telling every person who comes in that the coffee sucks, the pastries are stale, and they hate baby seals if they buy anything there.

They obviously arent going to tolerate that. No business would (that wants to be successful).

Maybe you’re right, but is it successful for developers to be fanboy hunters instead of generally being interested in making a good product, which is something people will criticize even if it’s not expressed on a forum for their game?

People may or may not play it. If someone like me perse says something negative about the game, chances are I care about the direction the game or developer is going, and if they just want to shut me down and not hear it, they might be losing a fan and patron, so why would they conduct business like that for the sake of “feelings”?
Doesn’t make sense to me from a business perspective, no matter if they pay for this space or not.

I paid for the game.

[Crazy Tiger]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

I paid for the game.

That doesn't give you the right to act like a jerk, nor does it mean that others have to listen to it or even have to tolerate it.

Not accusing you of being a jerk, but just saying that paying for things doesn't excuse behaviour.

Goes both ways, of course. If moderators and game devs actually are abusing, they can be reported to Steam support.

[KillahInstinct]

Rules are always quite subjective, and some people just don't like them. In the end, we all love gaming and it helps if the forums are a constructive way for developers to interact with their customers and gather feedback.

That said, I do sometimes think locking (or deleting) is too easily used, especially by the paid mods - who just don't do any community management - but just go by reports.

[The Gut]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

I paid for the game.

That doesn't give you the right to act like a jerk, nor does it mean that others have to listen to it or even have to tolerate it.

Not accusing you of being a jerk, but just saying that paying for things doesn't excuse behaviour.

Goes both ways, of course. If moderators and game devs actually are abusing, they can be reported to Steam support.

I guess I’m not the type of person to care if someone gets reported, that doesn’t solve anything anyway.
I’ve been reported by people, and I am still here, and nothing has been solved.
I have my opinions and contribute my concerns no matter how other receive them. People here are not always civil, polite and receptive, and I am not a push over, so that makes me seem like a jerk sometimes, but I do what I can to stay within the guidelines and rules.

I am still surprised this topic remains here, but it’s a good thing. Maybe the forums need someone like me every once in a while to test how good they really are.

[Crazy Tiger]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

I am still surprised this topic remains here, but it’s a good thing. Maybe the forums need someone like me every once in a while to test how good they really are.

I'm not surprised. Topics like these come around like every other month or so and they always stay up. Until there comes a moment where someone breaks the rules, turns it into a flamefest and it eventually gets locked. The lock then, however, has nothing to do with the subject, but the behaviour.
As long as something is duscussed in a normal manner, there is no readon for the mods to act on it.

People also keep confusing game hubs with the actual Steam discussion forums. Different sections run by different parties. Whatever happens in a game hub is not representative for the state of the whole thing. Vice versa for what happens in the Steam discussion forums.

[The Gut]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

I am still surprised this topic remains here, but it’s a good thing. Maybe the forums need someone like me every once in a while to test how good they really are.

I'm not surprised. Topics like these come around like every other month or so and they always stay up. Until there comes a moment where someone breaks the rules, turns it into a flamefest and it eventually gets locked. The lock then, however, has nothing to do with the subject, but the behaviour.
As long as something is duscussed in a normal manner, there is no readon for the mods to act on it.

People also keep confusing game hubs with the actual Steam discussion forums. Different sections run by different parties. Whatever happens in a game hub is not representative for the state of the whole thing. Vice versa for what happens in the Steam discussion forums.

Clearly this is the case.
If someone flames then they flame. I doubt it though because it’s not insulting a game that someone can identify with.

[The Gut]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Community is its downfall:

You could always find a less strict forum if you have a problem with this one.

I have. It’s called GameFAQs.

I still use steam, and therefore it’s forums.

[76561198407601200]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Community is its downfall:

You could always find a less strict forum if you have a problem with this one.

I have. It’s called GameFAQs.

I still use steam, and therefore it’s forums.

And as you probably have realized, steam is not gamefaqs.

[The Gut]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย The Living Tribunal:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Haradasanz' Gut:

I have. It’s called GameFAQs.

I still use steam, and therefore it’s forums.

And as you probably have realized, steam is not gamefaqs.

And it should be more like it, and learn from it. GameFAQs are clean and more hands off. They still moderate it well, and I don’t see issues there like I do here. GameFAQs is not too strict but it’s not a hot mess either. Good balance. I come here because it’s kind of a more direct way to comment on a game when you’re playing it on steam and the developers are on here to see it vs GameFAQs the Devs don’t really track topics about their games as far as I can tell.

[Crazy Tiger]

GameFAQs is the way it is because the game devs aren't there. So if Steam is to learn from it, that means that game devs have to leave, which also means less support for gamers.

Doesn't really sound like a good thing, though.

[The Gut]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Crazy Tiger:

GameFAQs is the way it is because the game devs aren't there. So if Steam is to learn from it, that means that game devs have to leave, which also means less support for gamers.

Doesn't really sound like a good thing, though.

Well we can have game support and make it separate from the forums and still make it balanced and good. I would like to see less fanboy hunting on these forums for sure, the forums would be a lot better I think.

Not knocking fanboys, but they lack the ability to see a game clearly and criticize some of the flaws with design. They are more willing to tolerate certain nonsense in games which regular players won’t, because they have affection for a particular developer and a game as a fan, vs seeing the game’s problems due to them identifying with the game and seeing problems with the game as problems with themselves. It’s a weird phenomenon.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

I haven't used the GameFAQs forums but I've heard that it's a bit of a mess.

I have used MyAnimeList's forums and my guess is that it's comparable. There is more chaos and pointless arguing and pointless memeing there than I see on the Steam forums, to some extent (depending on the thread/topic/forum/etc.).