How about getting a human to review your refund requests?

[Bregu]

Hi guys, big fan here (although significantly less so lately). Few small issues that I have recently encountered: when I made a refund request on fallout 4 vr I was informed that I can't get one due to exceeding more than 14 days from purchase, so I had to make a second request clarifying that you can't really do that without violating consumer statutory rights in EU. To which you have replied that my refund cannot be granted because I played for more than 2h. And here is where my problem is: there is no way that I have played fallout 4 vr for more than 2h but I really wish that I could! We wouldn't had an issue then as 30 bucks per hour I can live with. I will go further and say that if I have really played for 4h (as my steam app now claims) or 5h (as steam web portal claims) I would recommend fallout 4 vr to my friends. But I couldn't because the UI is so damn ridiculous that the game is unplayable, every-time I'm in the building my head is on the second floor, I had to use a game pad rather than vr controllers to cycle through the inventory and it crashes every-time I manage to do anything remotely fun.

In my following refund request I have informed you that it was impossible for me to accumulate more than 30 minutes of game play that day as during my one hour lunch break I managed to get home, play the game, write an extensive refund request and get back to the office... somehow that sub 1h playtime increased my total playtime by 3-4 hours that day so I asked for the logs of the times when I have played that game as I can prove that your record is incorrect. To which you have replied that my refund cannot be granted because I have played more then 2h... To which once again I have replied asking for more details about the times when I have allegedly played the game. I have also asked for a link to a procedure where I could appeal or at least complain about the fact that you have completely ignored the content of my refund request. To which the exact same auto response was send to me for the third time.

If no one reads this refund requests why telling me that they are reviewed on case by case basis? Seriously frustrating having to find out that I'm wasting my time trying to convince a bot... if it wasn't a bot my suggestion is that you are wasting money on labor as the outcome is the same as if I was talking to one. Thank you for your consideration.

[Count_Dandyman]

A human did review it and yes they can do that and are not violating any EU directive by doing it.

[Start_Running]

One the 2 week period is what is mandated by EU kaw, That's your right to withdrawal period if I'm not mistaken.

Did you make sure the application process was terminated because really that can happen if your os or tae application goofs the wrong way,. The UI closes the window closes but the process remains running and all steam can see is that it was running.


They aren't ignoring. But the simpole truth is, they see one set of facts they can objectively verify and then they look at your claims and allegations which they cannot verify. Which would you base your actions on. Video footage or word of mouth?

[Bregu]

if it was a human s/he was lacking in ability to understand written text. I'll refer you to the Sale of Goods and Associated Guarantees Directive 99/44/EC which gives rights and remedies to the consumer of goods that are not in accordance with the contract of sale (a.k.a. broken game). These statutory rights cannot be overwritten by any t&c unless in favor of the consumer so technically both 14 days policy and 2h of use policies on steam are breaching these statutory rights so if you want to discuss it I would appreciate it if you could add some substance to your contributions to this discussion. Thanks in advance!

[Gwarsbane]

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

Guarantees and returns

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised.

If you bought a good or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Hmmm they seem to say you can do it within 14 days. They don't however say it can be done after that point.

14 days to cancel and return purchases made outside shops (online, by phone or mail order)

In the EU you have the right to return these purchases within 14 days for a full refund. You can do so for any reason – even if you simply changed your mind.

The 14-day "cooling off" period does not apply to all purchases. Some of the exemptions are:

plane and train tickets, as well as concert tickets, hotel bookings, car rental reservations and catering services for specific dates
goods and drinks delivered to you by regular delivery – for example delivery by a milkman.
goods made to order or clearly personalised – such as a tailor-made suit
sealed audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have unsealed upon receipt.
online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it
goods bought from a private individual rather than a company
urgent repairs and maintenance contracts – if you call a plumber to repair a leaking shower, you can't cancel the work once you have agreed on the price of the service.

Please note that this list is not exhaustive.

If you buy goods in a shop, you have no EU legal right to return the goods (for exchange or refund) unless the item is faulty. However, many shops voluntarily allow customers to return or exchange goods during a certain time period. Make sure you check the returns policy of the shop where you made your purchase.

The "cooling off" period expires 14 days after the day you received your goods. For service contracts, the "cooling off" period expires 14 days after the day you concluded the contract. If the cooling off period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended till the next working day.

Still nothing about being allowed after the 14 days.

Within the first 2 hours of playing the game, you would have discovered that the UI is something you dislike, so you had your chance to return it then, but you didn't, you kept playing.

So no you are not going to get a refund, you waited too long. Next time do more research on it BEFORE you buy.


https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by Bregu:

Hi guys, big fan here (although significantly less so lately). Few small issues that I have recently encountered: when I made a refund request on fallout 4 vr I was informed that I can't get one due to exceeding more than 14 days from purchase, so I had to make a second request clarifying that you can't really do that without violating consumer statutory rights in EU. To which you have replied that my refund cannot be granted because I played for more than 2h. And here is where my problem is: there is no way that I have played fallout 4 vr for more than 2h but I really wish that I could! We wouldn't had an issue then as 30 bucks per hour I can live with. I will go further and say that if I have really played for 4h (as my steam app now claims) or 5h (as steam web portal claims) I would recommend fallout 4 vr to my friends. But I couldn't because the UI is so damn ridiculous that the game is unplayable, every-time I'm in the building my head is on the second floor, I had to use a game pad rather than vr controllers to cycle through the inventory and it crashes every-time I manage to do anything remotely fun.

In my following refund request I have informed you that it was impossible for me to accumulate more than 30 minutes of game play that day as during my one hour lunch break I managed to get home, play the game, write an extensive refund request and get back to the office... somehow that sub 1h playtime increased my total playtime by 3-4 hours that day so I asked for the logs of the times when I have played that game as I can prove that your record is incorrect. To which you have replied that my refund cannot be granted because I have played more then 2h... To which once again I have replied asking for more details about the times when I have allegedly played the game. I have also asked for a link to a procedure where I could appeal or at least complain about the fact that you have completely ignored the content of my refund request. To which the exact same auto response was send to me for the third time.

If no one reads this refund requests why telling me that they are reviewed on case by case basis? Seriously frustrating having to find out that I'm wasting my time trying to convince a bot... if it wasn't a bot my suggestion is that you are wasting money on labor as the outcome is the same as if I was talking to one. Thank you for your consideration.

Purchased in June... No chance.

[Count_Dandyman]

Originally posted by Bregu:

if it was a human s/he was lacking in ability to understand written text. I'll refer you to the Sale of Goods and Associated Guarantees Directive 99/44/EC which gives rights and remedies to the consumer of goods that are not in accordance with the contract of sale (a.k.a. broken game). These statutory rights cannot be overwritten by any t&c unless in favor of the consumer so technically both 14 days policy and 2h of use policies on steam are breaching these statutory rights so if you want to discuss it I would appreciate it if you could add some substance to your contributions to this discussion. Thanks in advance!

The game not running properly on your system with the settings you want does not mean its broken as the many people that are playing it happily shows.

[Bregu]

> One the 2 week period is what is mandated by EU kaw, That's your right to withdrawal period if I'm not mistaken.

Change of mind is different from faulty product

> Did you make sure the application process was terminated because really that can happen if your os or tae application goofs the wrong way,. The UI closes the window closes but the process remains running and all steam can see is that it was running.

No I didn't and that is my hypothesis that as the game has crashed it hasn't closed properly hence the extra time but using a time the process was active of my machine after it has crashed to justify refusing a refund is simply wrong I hope you agree

> They aren't ignoring. But the simpole truth is, they see one set of facts they can objectively verify and then they look at your claims and allegations which they cannot verify. Which would you base your actions on. Video footage or word of mouth?

I can provide objective evidence that I haven't been playing the game during that time if I will be provided the times when I allegedly played, to which the response was:
"We are unable to refund this purchase to your Steam Wallet at this time. Your playtime of an included product exceeds 2 hours (our refund policy maximum)."

I'm sorry but talking to a wall is more productive

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by Bregu:

> One the 2 week period is what is mandated by EU kaw, That's your right to withdrawal period if I'm not mistaken.

Change of mind is different from faulty product

> Did you make sure the application process was terminated because really that can happen if your os or tae application goofs the wrong way,. The UI closes the window closes but the process remains running and all steam can see is that it was running.

No I didn't and that is my hypothesis that as the game has crashed it hasn't closed properly hence the extra time but using a time the process was active of my machine after it has crashed to justify refusing a refund is simply wrong I hope you agree

> They aren't ignoring. But the simpole truth is, they see one set of facts they can objectively verify and then they look at your claims and allegations which they cannot verify. Which would you base your actions on. Video footage or word of mouth?

I can provide objective evidence that I haven't been playing the game during that time if I will be provided the times when I allegedly played, to which the response was:
"We are unable to refund this purchase to your Steam Wallet at this time. Your playtime of an included product exceeds 2 hours (our refund policy maximum)."

I'm sorry but talking to a wall is more productive

You have owned the game for half a year. You are not getting a refund.

[Bregu]

> The game not running properly on your system with the settings you want does not mean its broken as the many people that are playing it happily shows.

I'm afraid you are missing the point all together

[Bregu]

> You have owned the game for half a year. You are not getting a refund.

I haven't played the game as I wasn't able to during that time, I haven't requested a refund earlier as I was hoping they will fix it they didn't so I'd like to see my money back. I really really really want to play this game and I would be more than happy with the purchase if I would have seen some effort towards making it playable this hasn't happened in my opinion quite the opposite Bethesda abounded this product, I'm a big fan of the fallout series but this really is the worst 60 quids that I have ever spent in my life and I do feel that my trust as a consumer in the quality of the Bethesda product sold on steam has been abused here

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by Bregu:

> You have owned the game for half a year. You are not getting a refund.

I haven't played the game as I wasn't able to during that time, I haven't requested a refund earlier as I was hoping they will fix it they didn't so I'd like to see my money back. I really really really want to play this game and I would be more than happy with the purchase if I would have seen some effort towards making it playable this hasn't happened in my opinion quite the opposite Bethesda abounded this product, I'm a big fan of the fallout series but this really is the worst 60 quids that I have ever spent in my life and I do feel that my trust as a consumer in the quality of the Bethesda product sold on steam has been abused here

Irrelevant.

The rules are very clear. It is not anyones fault but your own for failing to request a refund within the required limits.

[Bregu]

> Within the first 2 hours of playing the game, you would have discovered that the UI is something you dislike, so you had your chance to return it then, but you didn't, you kept playing.

again I did not played this game for more than 2 hours of that I'm 100% certain

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by Bregu:

> Within the first 2 hours of playing the game, you would have discovered that the UI is something you dislike, so you had your chance to return it then, but you didn't, you kept playing.

again I did not played this game for more than 2 hours of that I'm 100% certain

The game time is not relevant. The owned time is.

[Bregu]

> Irrelevant.

We will have to agree to disagree here


> The rules are very clear. It is not anyones fault but your own for failing to request a refund within the required limits.

There are other rules than steam's T&C governing customer protection and I prefer to go with my statutory rights so:

"Traders selling consumer goods in the European Union (EU) are obliged to remedy defects which existed at the time of delivery and which become apparent within 2 years. EU rules guarantee consumers a minimum level of protection, especially if the goods do not meet the standards promised."

Sale of Goods and Associated Guarantees Directive 99/44/EC

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by Bregu:

> Irrelevant.

We will have to agree to disagree here


> The rules are very clear. It is not anyones fault but your own for failing to request a refund within the required limits.

There are other rules than steam's T&C governing customer protection and I prefer to go with my statutory rights so:

"Traders selling consumer goods in the European Union (EU) are obliged to remedy defects which existed at the time of delivery and which become apparent within 2 years. EU rules guarantee consumers a minimum level of protection, especially if the goods do not meet the standards promised."

Sale of Goods and Associated Guarantees Directive 99/44/EC

Valve is completely compliant with all laws regarding refunds.

You can agree to disagree with it but it does not make it any less true.