John Hadley 2013 年 9 月 23 日 下午 6:45
How do I know when a game is actually released not "Early Access"?
I've noticed a disturbing number of unfinished games being released on Steam under the "Early Access" program. I have no interest at all in playing Early Access games so is there some way I can tell when these games are actually done and ready for consumption? Or will Steam just be a dumping ground from now on with all manner of incomplete product and no way to locate a quality game?
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 33 条留言
Satoru 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 1:24 
引用自 John Hadley
I've noticed a disturbing number of unfinished games being released on Steam under the "Early Access" program. I have no interest at all in playing Early Access games so is there some way I can tell when these games are actually done and ready for consumption? Or will Steam just be a dumping ground from now on with all manner of incomplete product and no way to locate a quality game?

Looking at ARMA3 which is more or less the only game thta I'm aware of that has left Early Access you'll see that

A) When the game launches on Early Access it shows up on "New Releases"

B) When the game gets a full release it shows up again in "New Releases"

Basically you don't need to 'keep checking'. It'll show up in New Releases.

Also on the full-desktop site. When you're looking at "New Releases", those games will have the "Early Access" tag on the game.

If you're REALLY REALLY lazy, get the Enhanced Steam addon. It now filters those 'pesky' Early Access games that you're so abhorently against.
最后由 Satoru 编辑于; 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 1:26
John Hadley 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 1:27 
I am the only one that matters to me. Do I care if other people want to buy games that are unfinished and not worth playing? No, what I care about is that I have to waste my time clicking on games that aren't ready to buy. Someone that wants to sell games to me should be showing me games that I will think are worthy of buying not waste my time showing me stuff that I won't ever want to buy.

If you go to the department store and ask to see refrigerators, do they start off by showing you a refrigerator that does not even work and should be in someone's garbage can?
Ultrapwnd 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 1:29 
引用自 John Hadley
I am the only one that matters to me. Do I care if other people want to buy games that are unfinished and not worth playing? No, what I care about is that I have to waste my time clicking on games that aren't ready to buy. Someone that wants to sell games to me should be showing me games that I will think are worthy of buying not waste my time showing me stuff that I won't ever want to buy.

If you go to the department store and ask to see refrigerators, do they start off by showing you a refrigerator that does not even work and should be in someone's garbage can?

No, but at the same time, you can't expect all of the refurbished refrigerators to be hidden, just becuase you don't want to see them.

I understand your concern, but what exactly do you think should be done? If there were a hide button for Early Access games, this would mean reduced sales as some people would never see them.
最后由 Ultrapwnd 编辑于; 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 1:33
Satoru 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 1:35 
引用自 John Hadley
If you go to the department store and ask to see refrigerators, do they start off by showing you a refrigerator that does not even work and should be in someone's garbage can?

A straw man argument just makes you look silly.

As I said before if you're so against Early Access games and you feel the entire world should revolve around your needs, use the Enhanced Steam browser addon to filter out Early Access games.
Zefar 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 1:51 
I checked up that Kerbal Space program game and it seems to a pretty big warning about Early access.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/220200/?snr=1_7_15__13

I'm quite sure it have had that the entire time because it's still in Beta. Most other games in Beta does the same thing.
Ridge Racer Drifttopia have the same warning on it as well.

Surely you must have noticed those two signs right?
John Hadley 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 3:12 
I didn't say that Early Access games are not marked as such. What I said is that I've tried early access games and come to realize that early access means is "incomplete game". These are unfinished and unpolished games that I should be waiting to buy until they are finished and that's just what I plan to do. It annoys me that I have to wade through this garbage on Steam to try to find good quality games that are ready for consumption. If there were a checkbox to avoid showing any early access content while I am shopping on Steam I would certainly use it.

I shall look into the enhanced steam browser extension. I typically don't use a browser to shop on Steam so I'm not sure that will work for me or not. This is the first time I've heard of it so I will explore this option.

I bought Kerbal Space Program not fulling understanding that early access may mean alpha stage product. I understood that the game was still under development but didn't realize half the game is not even implemented. I played a demo and it had a campaign or story mode or something grayed out and I thought that was because it was disabled in the demo not that the functionality didn't even exist in the game. It was my mistake and I've learned from it. The lesson learned is "never buy early access games". The game still interests me and I know eventually it will be something ready to play, but the progress on it has been fairly slow so at this rate I would not be surprised if it still takes a year or more to reach completion.

Ridge Racer Driftopia is a free to play game. I didn't pay anything to play it so I am not especially bothered that it is incomplete and I knew this before playing it. It was just illustration that early access can mean "still contains serious glaring bugs that might ruin what would have been an excellent gaming experience". I don't want to spend money on something like that when I could spend it on a game that is finished and has had a proper layer of polish applied to it. The only reason I gave this game any chance at all is because I didn't have to spend any money on it.

It is good to know that I will at least again see the early access games in the New Releases section when they are done being early access. That was the main question, how I was supposed to know when they are done being early access and ready to play. I'd not seen any of the early access games reach that stage of completion yet.

It still annoys me to see early access games in the new releases section when they aren't really releases yet and might not be for numerous months, but if I'm at least notified when they are done then I won't miss out on them because I was never offered them in a form that was worthy of spending my time and money on.
Zefar 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 10:30 
引用自 John Hadley

It is good to know that I will at least again see the early access games in the New Releases section when they are done being early access. That was the main question, how I was supposed to know when they are done being early access and ready to play. I'd not seen any of the early access games reach that stage of completion yet.
When the Early access notice is gone it's the full game on the store.

引用自 John Hadley
It still annoys me to see early access games in the new releases section when they aren't really releases yet and might not be for numerous months, but if I'm at least notified when they are done then I won't miss out on them because I was never offered them in a form that was worthy of spending my time and money on.
There are still a lot of games that have been released and have been extremely buggy on launch and ever a month or two down the line. Early Access makes very little difference in that part.
John Hadley 2013 年 9 月 24 日 下午 11:37 
引用自 Zefar
引用自 John Hadley
It still annoys me to see early access games in the new releases section when they aren't really releases yet and might not be for numerous months, but if I'm at least notified when they are done then I won't miss out on them because I was never offered them in a form that was worthy of spending my time and money on.
There are still a lot of games that have been released and have been extremely buggy on launch and ever a month or two down the line. Early Access makes very little difference in that part.

So what your argument is that there are some poor games on Steam so all of them should be poor and Steam should sell them when they are half finished instead of even bothering to try to sell quality games? I'm sorry I don't agree with that.

A game that is released is basically saying to people "hey our game is working and ready for you to play". Because the developer/publisher has done that they feel obligated to make the game work and they will do the best they can to make that happen as soon as possible. Their reputation depends on it.

An early access game is saying to people "hey our game is not finished or working properly, so don't expect much". Because the developer has not already told you that the game is working he feels very little obligation to fix problems as soon as possible. You have no right to expect that. If you do expect that then you are in the wrong. No one promised you a working game at this point in time. They aren't held accountable for the quality of the game at all until some unspecified future date.

When it comes down to spending my money I know I want to spend it with the guy that is going to be held accountable for quality now not the one that says "hey man I told you its not ready, check back next year."
Satoru 2013 年 9 月 25 日 上午 8:14 
引用自 John Hadley
What I said is that I've tried early access games and come to realize that early access means is "incomplete game". These are unfinished and unpolished games that I should be waiting to buy until they are finished and that's just what I plan to do.

Considering there are gigantic warnings plastered everywhere concerning Early Access 'I didnt realize' is a hard thing to justify. Not to mention, this also implies you're playing games blind without doing any research. KSP has been out for MONTHS. You're currently on the Internet, which gives you instantaneous access to information. Use it.


It is good to know that I will at least again see the early access games in the New Releases section when they are done being early access. That was the main question, how I was supposed to know when they are done being early access and ready to play. I'd not seen any of the early access games reach that stage of completion yet.

As I indicated before, ARMA3 went retail, and when it does it will re-appear on the New Releases tab without the Early Access moniker.
John Hadley 2013 年 9 月 25 日 上午 9:42 
What's hard to justify is listing early access games under new releases since they haven't been released. They aren't ready for sale and to act like they are and like they should be seen as an acceptable replacement for new complete working games puts a stain on Steam's reputation.
Satoru 2013 年 9 月 25 日 上午 9:51 
引用自 John Hadley
What's hard to justify is listing early access games under new releases since they haven't been released. They aren't ready for sale and to act like they are and like they should be seen as an acceptable replacement for new complete working games puts a stain on Steam's reputation.

The store page is extremely clear about the state of what Early Access means.

Showing up on the New Release tab is pretty important to devs in terms of exposure. If you're going to remove the game from New Releases, then you might as well can the entire project because without exposure no one is going to bother putting their game on EarlyAccess. That exposure on the front page is really critical for devs. Any mroe than when the game goes full retail.

Early Access is something some people are willing to pay for. If you don't want to that's fine. But it's not a 'stain' on Steam.
最后由 Satoru 编辑于; 2013 年 9 月 25 日 上午 9:52
Ultrapwnd 2013 年 9 月 25 日 下午 1:28 
I for one don't mind getting a game early if it's early access if I know I will get a discount. Look at Arma 3.
Irregular Seconds 2013 年 9 月 25 日 下午 1:40 
引用自 John Hadley
So I need to check the store page for every Early Access game on Steam each day to determine when they are ready to play for real?

Be careful with this; while this is technically true, you can end up burning yourself. You need to research the games you wish to buy especially if you do not wish to buy an unfinished product. Simply put, if a game moves out of early access into release, this does not imply that it is not a finished product -- it should, but unfortunately, it does not.
smeg 2013 年 9 月 26 日 上午 1:53 
引用自 Satoru
引用自 John Hadley
What's hard to justify is listing early access games under new releases since they haven't been released. They aren't ready for sale and to act like they are and like they should be seen as an acceptable replacement for new complete working games puts a stain on Steam's reputation.

The store page is extremely clear about the state of what Early Access means.

Showing up on the New Release tab is pretty important to devs in terms of exposure. If you're going to remove the game from New Releases, then you might as well can the entire project because without exposure no one is going to bother putting their game on EarlyAccess. That exposure on the front page is really critical for devs. Any mroe than when the game goes full retail.

Early Access is something some people are willing to pay for. If you don't want to that's fine. But it's not a 'stain' on Steam.

But why are both on the same shelf? When I looked at the new releases here on Steam a few years ago, I saw 7 out of 10 new games, 2 DLC's and 1 pre-order. Now I am lucky if there is one single game there that is a final finished game. The rest is pre-order, early access and season passes. That is the problem here: the shelf is called 'new released' but there're plans, designs and half baked breads on it. I can see a title is not finished, but I cant see one that is!

Rockhead Gaz 2013 年 9 月 26 日 上午 2:47 
引用自 John Hadley
I am the only one that matters to me. Do I care if other people want to buy games that are unfinished and not worth playing?

But you are not the only consumer making use of the Steam platform. Unfortunately, although you are only concerned with yourself, Valve have to be concerned with the community as a whole. It would be neither practical or even possible to cater to the desires of every single individual using the platform.

Also, whilst many of these games may not be ready for release, they are ready for purchase. Have you never pre-ordered a game before? I know I have. Sometimes months, or years in a few cases, in advance. I don't see much in the way of a difference here, other than the fact that you're laying down the money beforehand, but seeing as the Early Access programme offers alpha and beta versions for the purposes of community testing and bug reporting, to some people, it may be worth opening their wallets for straight away.

It's not a system that everyone's going to want to take part in, obviously, but there are a lot of people who do, and you have to consider the fact that they have as much right to be offered the service as you do not to partake in it. And the best way to make the service known to those who do want it is to advertise it on the front page. After all, these are products that can be bought and played, albeit not necessarily for the same purposes as final release versions of games. I don't particularly want any of the non-game software available on Steam, but I wouldn't suggest they remove it from the new releases section simply because it's not a game.
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发帖日期: 2013 年 9 月 23 日 下午 6:45
回复数: 33