Why is it not okay to talk about emulation, there are emulators on steam

[Rocket]

I own castlevania advance trilogy, bought on steam, that is an emulator. also other actual standalone emulators are on steam, yet somehow I got banned from a subforum for mentioning that I was emulating a game that I own, on my PC. I'm feeling a bit confused and not entirely sure where the line is here, this seems really arbitrary and kind of unfair. can any cast any light on this?

[mimizukari]

You're not allowed to talk about "Encouraging or engaging in piracy or theft", console emulation has been removed from the rules. If you talk about emulation and don't own the legal licenses or cartridges/etc and dump them yourselves to make a legal backup as per your state's laws/etc, then you're engaging in piracy.

You must dump the ROM yourself, can't get it from another source and need to dump the BIOS of your device, such as GBA entirely by yourself. If you didn't do this you're engaging in piracy.

[Rocket]

That's what I thought. I never mentioned anything about piracy. just that I'm playing my new game on my PC in 4k. That should surely be completely within the rules, right?

[mimizukari]

Originalmente postado por Rocket:

That's what I thought. I never mentioned anything about piracy. just that I'm playing my new game on my PC in 4k. That should surely be completely within the rules, right?

Only if you followed all the proper procedures of dumping the game and BIOS yourself, would help if you had your own country's legislature/laws on the issue handy as well as a step-by-step guide of what you did to get the game working, otherwise people will assume otherwise. It's only piracy if you don't own the original hardware and game according to most of the new rules/laws in jurisdictions.

So to put it bluntly, it's a "grey area". Avoid piracy talk and then there's no issue because console emulation talk is no longer completely disallowed.

[Rocket]

I don't fully understand what you're saying... do you mean that even though there are emulators on steam (cemu?), any time anyone wants to mention emulating a game, they must include all that information in their post as a disclaimer? I'm sure you don't mean that, as it would be very problematic... so are you saying emulators are absolutely fine but we're not allowed to talk about these things that exist on steam and are fine? Do you see why I am confused?

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

it's because emulation by itself also make piracy much easier to achieve , it's make it a taboo subject on most games forums.

[mimizukari]

Originalmente postado por Rocket:

I don't fully understand what you're saying... do you mean that even though there are emulators on steam (cemu?), any time anyone wants to mention emulating a game, they must include all that information in their post as a disclaimer? I'm sure you don't mean that, as it would be very problematic... so are you saying emulators are absolutely fine but we're not allowed to talk about these things that exist on steam and are fine? Do you see why I am confused?

Emulators on Steam do not include the BIOS necessary to run the games, nor the ROMs for the games themselves. Emulators are fine as stated by courts, but you must use all your own original hardware to dump the BIOS and make the emulator work, and use specialized hardware to transfer cartridge data to your PC AKA this thing: https://youtu.be/XqgmR1Hqvbk?t=778

you are NOT allowed to use ROMs uploaded by other people for any reason, that is 100% piracy. You are also not allowed to use a BIOS dumped by someone else or in another program, as that is breach of copyright, reverse engineering and also a type of piracy if not for personal backup purposes.

[Haruspex]

Originalmente postado por ロザリンド:

Only if you followed all the proper procedures of dumping the game and BIOS yourself...

Or, if you didn't do this, just don't mention how you got it.

I personally like to play a lot of legally purchased and personally owned old console games that I dumped myself on my Steam Deck... ahem.

[One-Per-Cent]

Out of interest, what were the exact words you used that got you banned?

[Rocket]

Originalmente postado por Gen-X-Rated:

Out of interest, what were the exact words you used that got you banned?

I don't know how to find it again, they deleted the topic and .....

edit: I found a way toview it, it was this... still no idea how this is against any rules :-

Just been playing my new zelda game on my PC, emulating a full system. sure the system I'm emulating is fairly low powered, but the emulator is being done by amateurs and emulating, not running native, and the cpu usage is low and the game runs like a dream at 4k...

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

Emulation is different from talking about the actual piracy part that is usually what people on forums are talking about when it comes to emulation.

Emulating using the actual legal methods ie obtaining bios from console you actually own and not from someone else on the internet.

[Rocket]

Originalmente postado por Judgmental Amaterasu:

Emulation is different from talking about the actual piracy part that is usually what people on forums are talking about when it comes to emulation.

Emulating using the actual legal methods ie obtaining bios from console you actually own and not from someone else on the internet.

I do that stuff. using these different things on my memory card, a lockpick and an fbi or something. I don't really understand it all so i follow a guide.

[One-Per-Cent]

Interesting. Giving the moderation team the benefit of the doubt, I can only suppose that it was removed not because they thought we you were guilty of piracy but because you may have been, perhaps inadvertently, encouraging others to engage in that kind of activity, pretty much what the first reply mentioned. Possibly a little harsh - a "grey area" as was previously mentioned - but I can see that Valve would probably feel like they need to have a zero tolerance policy on stuff like this in order to protect themselves.

[Rocket]

Originalmente postado por Gen-X-Rated:

Interesting. Giving the moderation team the benefit of the doubt, I can only suppose that it was removed not because they thought we you were guilty of piracy but because you may have been, perhaps inadvertently, encouraging others to engage in that kind of activity, pretty much what the first reply mentioned. Possibly a little harsh - a "grey area" as was previously mentioned - but I can see that Valve would probably feel like they need to have a zero tolerance policy on stuff like this in order to protect themselves.

so I got banned because they thought other people might decide to pirate after seeing me talking about emulating a game that I own.. okay that's crazy but I appreciate your explanation, it doesn't sound too far fetched.

I mean I actually took care not to be specific anyway. maybe I should have been specific. Maybe they thing I mean THE new zelda game, rather than the one I bought the other day. I am scared to even say anything more in case they ban me again!

[Iceira]

Try see it as if it was made so by game devs, then its legal,
you need steam forum group like C64 or amiga, then you can post there.

you can call it a Mighty fine line, and why you see so many odd reply, with it, steam policy
actual its almost impossible to say anyting

and stop debating it you wont win here steam has the right to judge here we dont.

Discussions Rules and Guidelines
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/6862-8119-C23E-EA7B

sub section, ( they have change and update it. )
it was mention before specific that word, and now its a problem then game devs is doing it. to run old game with original content, so its not illagaly then they do it.

gl with it find own steam privat group, best advice i can give you.


ps.
to run a crack or emulator in itself is not illigaly, its matter did you bought it or not. many think it is just because steam say this and they are Wrong.

even a cheat trainer , just dont do it in a online game, noone care if you cheat in a single player game, you only hurt yourself here, not even sure a game devs will bother with what you do or brake own game with fiddel with it, they will say restore original content have a nice day, i bet.

That is the RED thin line, if you bought it or not. and dont effect other with your moddfied version of the game. to my knowledge no single player has ever done that, watch out for ladder or other new ways that can do this then its actual a MP game then its actual single player game, there are greyzone here.

[Rocket]

Yeah.
To be honest steam are only going to hurt themselves in the long run. Discussion forums is one of the reasons I'm loyal to steam. My ability to talk about whatever game I'm playing has generally been a boon. But recently I'm not so sure. I get banned for talking about something that is perfectly legal, doesn't hurt anyone and was creating interesting conversation. Not the trolls though. I had a look at the ones who were repeatedly griefing the other users and I reported multiple times and they are not banned, just hanging around and griefing everyone.

I think loyalty to steam is not good for me. I used to avoid buying games on epic or origin etc. Because they don't have steam forums, but I don't think I want to use steam forums any more. They should rethink their policies, this is not the only way their business is being damaged.

Sorry offtopic.