How does the Steam Refund Policy protect developers?

[Blade]

I hope this is the right place to ask this, but first and foremost, this is just my perspective as a consumer.

How does refunding a game harm developers? Steam doesn't supply physical copies of games so there wasn't any money put into creating a disc and package. From my perspective, if someone purchases a game and refunds it, the developers haven't lost anything, they still have exactly what they had before said person purchased the game. If anything the 2 hour and 14 day policy are in fact harmful to the developers and consumers. As more and more games are advertised these days, they receive biased reviews prior to release and misleading trailers that make them look absolutely fantastic, but then once you start playing you realize it isn't at all what you expected or was advertised. With inflation going up even further and new games already almost $100 regardless of quality, size, and budget, gamers are already growing more and more skeptical about pre-ordering or purchasing them at all because gaming has become a high risk hobby.

The Steam return policy is the source of 90% of the hostility and toxicity among the forums, when people are mislead into believing a game is for them and over-hyped for it, just to find out it isn't at all what they were expecting or it has downright terrible design choices that ruin the over-all experience and they spent almost a $100, yeah they're going to be pissed. That doesn't make it right for them to take it out on everyone in the forums but these posts often impact the developer negatively and cause them to lose money. When people aren't sure about a game before buying, they go to the forums. If there are a bunch of posts and comments about how disappointing the game was or that they felt ripped off, players are going to be discouraged from buying the game. Not to mention it just creates an air of toxicity around the game itself.

In other words, it's the consumers that get worst end of it when the developers don't lose anything if the game is refunded, but if it isn't, the consumers have lost almost $100 and this also affects the sales of a game when players aren't willing to take the risk to give the game a chance. This results in gamers directing their frustration towards the developers, for example death threats and other hateful emails. I mean, Ubisoft has mental health counselors to help developers through that, that's ridiculous and Steam's Refund policy is the source. You can't blame gamers for buying a game when they were mislead unless you want to destroy the trust between consumer and developers.

I personally had a recent experience with Dragons Dogma 2 where I purchased it in February, played it once and left it on the title screen for around an hour so Ionly have two hours logged. It wasn't just unfun, design choices like being stun-locked to death and other cheap gimmicks actually made miserable, I just didn't want to play it. Unfortunately my father passed away this year and my mind is constantly racing with anxiety so I'm constantly forgetting things I need to do. One of those things was refund Dragon's Dogma 2 because I'd genuinely forgotten until a few days ago when I was scrolling through my Steam library. I've been able to refund games that had 10 hours played or were owned for a couple months once or twice over the 15 years or so I've had a Steam account and to be honest I still don't understand why those refunds requests were accepted. I hardly ever refund a game so I'm not mad as much I'm just like "why?".

I can fully understand the 2 hour rule, although even that is unreasonable because most games take longer than that to know if they're worth the money or not. I get that Steam isn't for "trying out games", but when you go to Walmart and purchase equipment or other products, you're not trying them out, you bought them because you wanted or needed them, that or they were advertised as something you wanted. Same with games on Steam. If it turns out those products don't perform as advertised, refunding them is hardly ever an issue, so it should be the same with Steam.

More people would take chances on games, giving the developers more opportunity to profit as opposed to otherwise when players are too scared to take the risk and buy it on sale. That in fact harms the developers too because they could have had more people purchasing at full price, but instead they lose money on people waiting for sales because they don't want to take the risk on Steam's Return Policy. Therefore Steam's Refund policy genuinely seems far more harmful to developers and consumers than beneficial. It's borderline predatory and it makes sense when players feel they've been scammed because the game wasn't as advertised but they can't get a refund.

So with all that said, I wanted to see how it is in fact harmful to the developers to refund a game with only 2 hours, regardless of how long ago it was purchased. The consumer clearly isn't playing it and isn't getting what they paid for, but here's the developer pocketing their money with no shame. The Refund policy is a double edged sword and ultimately exists just to make consumers feel like they're taking less of risk when in fact they aren't, and it seems like it's a good deal until players have enough bad experiences with it to figure out what it's really there for. It comes across to me as predatory and it always has because it creates this illusion of safety that isn't really there for a false sense of security.

When Steam takes 30% of the revenue for each game sold, it's clear they're trying to protect themselves rather than the developers and give no thought to the consequences of their greed. It has steadily over time caused the developer/player relationship and trust to deteriorate to an unacceptable level where people are boycotting and flooding forums with hatred. They are sabotaging developers that trust them to distribute their games.

But what are the facts? I may be completely wrong, I'm not a developer, accountant, or a business owner so I can only go by my perspective as a consumer, thus I want to see if there's actually a valid argument to made about this or if someone could explain how it actually protects the developers.

[Crazy Tiger]

A refund is a sale taken back, it's money earned taken back. That alone harms them.

Keep in mind that it doesn't matter if you play or enjoy the game and that it's entirely on you if you forget about a game. There are no satisfaction guarantees nor is it a stores concern whether you actually use the product.

Also keep in mind that the refund policy is not a substitute for demos.

Any argument is valid, people just call arguments they don't like "not valid" cause that's easier to dismiss then.

[nullable]

Well who's claiming the refund policy does harm developers?

Why do you think the original numbers were settled on?

Why is Valve and its refund policy responsible for protecting users from their own foolishness?

The refund policy is never going to be a remedy for advertising.

Your baseless claims about the problems the refund policy causes makes me wonder if you're old enough to remember pre-refund days.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by Blade:

How does refunding a game harm developers? Steam doesn't supply physical copies of games so there wasn't any money put into creating a disc and package. From my perspective, if someone purchases a game and refunds it, the developers haven't lost anything, they still have exactly what they had before said person purchased the game.

The developer gets 70%. You refund they get 0%. Definitely a loss to them.

Originally posted by Blade:

If anything the 2 hour and 14 day policy are in fact harmful to the developers and consumers.

Refund policies - Take your pick. Note: (***) same refund policy.

(1) (***) Steam - Within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime.

(2) (***) Epic - Games and products are eligible for refund within 14 days of purchase. However, you must have less than 2 hours of runtime on record.

(3) (***) Ubisoft (UPDATED) - You can request a refund for a digital PC game within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the game has not been played for more than two hours.

Previously it was: (You can request a refund for a digital order within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the content has not been launched).

(4) EA Play - Whichever comes first.

a) Within 24 hours after you first launch the game.

b) Within 14 days from the day you bought it, if you have not launched the game.

c) Within 14 days from the release date if you pre-ordered the game, if you haven't launched it yet.

(5) Blizzard - The game is newly purchased within the last 3 days. You haven't started the game; if the game has been played at all it won't qualify for a refund.

(6) GOG - starting now, you can get a full refund up to 30 days after purchasing a product, even if you downloaded, launched, and played it. That's it. #

# (Open to abuse and they monitor for abuse and reserve the right to refuse a refund as do all PC stores). https://ibb.co/ZzXPMwv


Even GOG the people's champion have set criteria for refunds.

How often can I refund my games? Is there some sort of limit?

We trust that you're making "informed purchasing decisions" and will use this updated "voluntary" Refund Policy "only" if something doesn't work as you expected.

We reserve the right to refuse refunds, or only offer Wallet Funds conversions, in individual cases.

Please respect all the time and hard work put into making the games you play and remember that refunds are not reviews. If you finished the game and didn't like it, please consider sharing your opinion instead.

Also, please don't take advantage of our trust by asking for an unreasonable amount of games to be refunded. Don't be that person. No one likes that person.

Originally posted by Blade:

I personally had a recent experience with Dragons Dogma 2 where I purchased it in February, played it once and left it on the title screen for around an hour so I only have two hours logged.

The refund policy is WITHIN 2 weeks of purchase AND with LESS than 2 hours playtime. Both conditions must be met (AND).

You AGREE to the terms of the refund policy at checkout.

[JamesF0790]

I'm sorry, all I'm getting from this is that some gamers refuse to take any responsibility for their own decisions.

[J4MESOX4D]

The refund policy protects consumers, not developers.

[Haruspex]

Originally posted by JamesF0790:

I'm sorry, all I'm getting from this is that some gamers refuse to take any responsibility for their own decisions.

A very common thread among these kinds of topics.

[Blade]

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

A refund is a sale taken back, it's money earned taken back. That alone harms them.

Keep in mind that it doesn't matter if you play or enjoy the game and that it's entirely on you if you forget about a game. There are no satisfaction guarantees nor is it a stores concern whether you actually use the product.

Also keep in mind that the refund policy is not a substitute for demos.

Any argument is valid, people just call arguments they don't like "not valid" cause that's easier to dismiss then.

Not exactly because you're argument isn't valid, not trying to be a butt hole, but rather use an example. It doesn't address the main topic which is the unseen damage it has caused over time to the relationship between developers and consumers. That's what I'm looking for and meant by "valid". It's more of an evasive answer than an argument.

[Blade]

Originally posted by JamesF0790:

I'm sorry, all I'm getting from this is that some gamers refuse to take any responsibility for their own decisions.

No offense, but that sounds like a you problem. You can interpret it however makes you feel superior but it doesn't change anything. Sorry to be blunt but I need to set a boundary since so many people project themselves on other people on the Forums.

[Blade]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Originally posted by Blade:

How does refunding a game harm developers? Steam doesn't supply physical copies of games so there wasn't any money put into creating a disc and package. From my perspective, if someone purchases a game and refunds it, the developers haven't lost anything, they still have exactly what they had before said person purchased the game.

The developer gets 70%. You refund they get 0%. Definitely a loss to them.

Originally posted by Blade:

If anything the 2 hour and 14 day policy are in fact harmful to the developers and consumers.

Refund policies - Take your pick. Note: (***) same refund policy.

(1) (***) Steam - Within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime.

(2) (***) Epic - Games and products are eligible for refund within 14 days of purchase. However, you must have less than 2 hours of runtime on record.

(3) (***) Ubisoft (UPDATED) - You can request a refund for a digital PC game within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the game has not been played for more than two hours.

Previously it was: (You can request a refund for a digital order within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the content has not been launched).

(4) EA Play - Whichever comes first.

a) Within 24 hours after you first launch the game.

b) Within 14 days from the day you bought it, if you have not launched the game.

c) Within 14 days from the release date if you pre-ordered the game, if you haven't launched it yet.

(5) Blizzard - The game is newly purchased within the last 3 days. You haven't started the game; if the game has been played at all it won't qualify for a refund.

(6) GOG - starting now, you can get a full refund up to 30 days after purchasing a product, even if you downloaded, launched, and played it. That's it. #

# (Open to abuse and they monitor for abuse and reserve the right to refuse a refund as do all PC stores). https://ibb.co/ZzXPMwv


Even GOG the people's champion have set criteria for refunds.

How often can I refund my games? Is there some sort of limit?

We trust that you're making "informed purchasing decisions" and will use this updated "voluntary" Refund Policy "only" if something doesn't work as you expected.

We reserve the right to refuse refunds, or only offer Wallet Funds conversions, in individual cases.

Please respect all the time and hard work put into making the games you play and remember that refunds are not reviews. If you finished the game and didn't like it, please consider sharing your opinion instead.

Also, please don't take advantage of our trust by asking for an unreasonable amount of games to be refunded. Don't be that person. No one likes that person.


Look, I'm sorry to seem like a jerk but can you re-read the post? You didn't provide a counter-argument as much as you evaded my argument. I'm not upset about the refund policy, I was inquiring into the long term and unseen damage it may be causing among the industry.

[rawWwRrr]

Originally posted by Blade:

I'm not upset about the refund policy, I was inquiring into the long term and unseen damage it may be causing among the industry.

Then perhaps you didn't write it well enough. You also posted in the Help and Tips forum which is generally where people want help with a refund, not have a philosophical debate about the merits of the policy.

[Blade]

Originally posted by nullable:

Well who's claiming the refund policy does harm developers?

Why do you think the original numbers were settled on?

Why is Valve and its refund policy responsible for protecting users from their own foolishness?

The refund policy is never going to be a remedy for advertising.

Your baseless claims about the problems the refund policy causes makes me wonder if you're old enough to remember pre-refund days.

They're not baseless and I even said at the end I could be completely wrong. There' no reason to start bullying and act superior. It makes me wonder the same thing about you. :/

[Blade]

Originally posted by rawWwRrr:

Originally posted by Blade:

I'm not upset about the refund policy, I was inquiring into the long term and unseen damage it may be causing among the industry.

Then perhaps you didn't write it well enough. You also posted in the Help and Tips forum which is generally where people want help with a refund, not have a philosophical debate about the merits of the policy.

I'll agree it might not be written perfectly. But user reading comprehension as well as rushing through it and missing key points because it's long is also to blame. Along with the fact they're projecting what other people have done in this forum on me. Obviously, I stated at the beginning I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post it, and at the end I straight up said I could be completely wrong. That alone should have been enough to tell you you're assumption about me might not be correct. So if we're all done being bullies and acting superior, where should I post it? This is the help section after all, I should be able to get a straight answer for that without being insulted at least.

[miamew3]

Steam discussions forum is probably the best place for this debate:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/

[Blade]

Originally posted by miamew3:

Steam discussions forum is probably the best place for this debate:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/

Thank you so much! :) Is it even worth it though? After this I'm a bit hesitant to post it anywhere else on Steam and it won't let me delete this one anymore or I would. Will I get an intelligent debate or is it just going to get flooded with hate and toxicity by people who don't actually read it or rush through before commenting something rude/hateful?