FPS Pacing in PAL?

[TomzzZ_]

(DVB-T broadcast formatting, my bad)

Edit:

Tried to delete dumpster fire of thread about frame rate pacing issues.

Most feedback implied the game should be fine at VRR or fps locked for supported systems and the engine is not pacing at 25fps DVB standards/ 30fps ATSC standard.



Thx! Sorry for the confusion.

[metamec]

TomzQQ の投稿を引用：

PAL came to mind but idk if they even use PAL in Europe anymore.

Most of Europe has transitioned to digital broadcasting standards like DVB-T, DVB-C, and DVB-S. These standards have replaced PAL for broadcasting.

[Lithurge]

Or it's just badly programmed physics that are tied to the framerate.

Like the original Dead Space that's tied to 30fps, if you go over that framerate you can't get through the door near the start, or Skyrim where anything over 60 causes objects to behave in odd ways.

[DC-GS]

Lithurge の投稿を引用：

Or it's just badly programmed physics that are tied to the framerate.

There are even recent examples like Forza. Speed/physics are tied to FPS, so the game limits the FPS to make it fair.

[rawWwRrr]

PAL? NTSC? What century are we in?

[nullable]

Locking a game at 25FPS isn't PAL, 30FPS isn't NTSC. It's a grossly oversimplified way to represent things.

There's nothing special about 25 or 30FPS, except it's just poor performance on modern PC games.

FPS and hz aren't necessarily interchangeable.

Monitors don't behave the same as 20th century TVs, even when the monitors were from the 20th century.

[nullable]

TomzQQ の投稿を引用：

Someone disagrees.

I'm oversimplifying my explanation because obviously know very little about what I'm talking about. But was asking if anyone experience

The game may be setup for the standard DBV frequency of 50hz and the games engine is paced at 25fps or 50fps?

US consoles are locked at 30fps or variable up to 60fps? But I didn't know if the pacing on console was broke as well.

Because others including myself had issues with adaptive sync and variable fps, pacing and physics issues.

I noticed some differences at lower fps locks but more dedicated studies would be needed.

Of course I don't expect anyone to want to play at 25fps, just mentioning it over the pacing issues which is what we're talking about. I mentioned broadcasting formats in the nature of tv/monitor refresh standards. 50hz/60hz or the standard fps of 25fps/30fps.

Thx 🤮

I'm oversimplifying it. I'm at work will be home later for a better post.

I'll try to address some of the points here, because I think you're making some assumptions that certain values have a hard relationship to certain standards rather and that relationship may just be "coincidental".

1. I'm not too familiar with DVB, but couldn't find any specific reference to 50hz so if you have a resource explaining that, you could provide it. Regardless DVB, like NTSC or PAL is a transmission standard and not something that's necessarily hard coded into games. For consoles the hardware may do the work of managing the difference between NTSC/PAL.
   
2. These days consoles "target" 30-60FPS. Some of that is because 30FPS has been a sufficient minimum for decades, and even if it once had some relationship to old transmission standards the reality is console hardware is typically modest enough that you have to make trade offs between performance and visuals. When you're focusing on visuals what performance level should you target? Again it's a target, games will often dip below 30FPS because it's not some hard/sacred number.
   
3. From #2, this is one of the reasons why using FPS and hz interchangeably is a mistake. Even in the NTSC/PAL days games could run at less than 25/30FPS lots of games ran in the teens FPS or even single digit FPS, hardware takes those limited rendered FPS and displays them on a screen what whatever hz, which could mean displaying the same frame several times until the next frame is available. FPS != hz. Which is why locking games at 25 or 30FPS doesn't necessarily have anything to do with NTSC or PAL or any specific broadcast standard for that matter.
   
4. So why do we use stuff like 30-60FPS? A lot of it's just traditional at this point, it worked well enough as a performance target. And hardware hasn't reach a point where it's trivial, arbitrary or obsolete. A lot of PS5 games in fidelty mode run at ~30FPS (give or take as needed), it's a compromise. Why not 20? Lower FPS wouldn't look as good. (I prefer performance mode).
   
5. And as far as hz goes, depending on hardware you can run a monitor at anything from 30hz to hundreds of hz (although anything under 60hz is abysmal in my opinion). In early generation LCD screens 60hz was just the compromise between cost and performance. 60hz screens looked pretty good at the time, as good as my CRT at 85hz, way better than my CRT at 60hz. So it's just the defacto baseline, modern TV's monitors have many options above 60hz unless you're buying the cheapest piece of crap you can. My newer Viewsonic monitor only offers 100/144/240hz by default, so much for 60hz, maybe it is on its way out (yes, I could use something like Custom Resolution Utility to create a 60hz option)

[nullable]

The game is definitely not designed to run at 25/30FPS. I've played it just fine for dozens of hours (93) at high FPS. Although I generally adjust settings to hit 80-90FPS at 1440p. I mean you're free to set whatever frame limits or use whatever settings you want. If the game feels better to you at 25FPS, then you do that. There's no accounting for taste, or quirks on individual systems.

The game was launched on consoles, so the game was tested a lot at ~30FPS so it's not a huge shocker the game runs correctly there.

The game was launched on PC's and 60FPS is a pretty common performance target, so yeah, you'd expect that to function correctly too.

I've played the game at much higher FPS and it's seemed fine to me, but user perceptions can differ.

At 120+ FPS I dunno maybe issues start cropping up at high FPS. I think you might be reading into some pretty mundane circumstances in a weird way, assuming that certain FPS performance targets are associated with random broadcast standards. I can understand the convenience of the assumption, but it doesn't really make sense for a game like CyberPunk 2077. End of the day, running something at 25FPS != PAL, not automatically or by default, unless you're playing some old game from the PAL era maybe. And even then, that wouldn't really apply to PC's.

[TomzzZ_]

nullable の投稿を引用：

The game is definitely not designed to run at 25/30FPS. I've played it just fine for dozens of hours (93) at high FPS. Although I generally adjust settings to hit 80-90FPS at 1440p. I mean you're free to set whatever frame limits or use whatever settings you want. If the game feels better to you at 25FPS, then you do that. There's no accounting for taste, or quirks on individual systems.

The game was launched on consoles, so the game was tested a lot at ~30FPS so it's not a huge shocker the game runs correctly there.

The game was launched on PC's and 60FPS is a pretty common performance target, so yeah, you'd expect that to function correctly too.

I've played the game at much higher FPS and it's seemed fine to me, but user perceptions can differ.

At 120+ FPS I dunno maybe issues start cropping up at high FPS. I think you might be reading into some pretty mundane circumstances in a weird way, assuming that certain FPS performance targets are associated with random broadcast standards. I can understand the convenience of the assumption, but it doesn't really make sense for a game like CyberPunk 2077. End of the day, running something at 25FPS != PAL, not automatically or by default, unless you're playing some old game from the PAL era maybe. And even then, that wouldn't really apply to PC's.

Thx for the replies. I understand it should play fine in vrr or locked framerates.