Early Access transition to full release...do they honor the purchase?

[J Thom123]

Hello Everybody,

I recently played a trial of Subnautica, it was pretty fun and I'm considering buying the early access (a.k.a. paid alpha/paid beta). The primary stated risk of early access, the game's development stalling and a 'full' version never coming to fruition, is totally acceptable. There is one thing I'm a little leery about and that is the following statement in the "Introducing Early Access" FAQ:

"You keep access to the game, even if the game later moves from Early Access into fully released."

Does anyone have any experience with games from Early Access moving into full release? If so, how did it work? Was that statement honored?

My biggest worry is that I buy the game, go to play it one day and get a "this alpha/beta is over, go buy the full game" or worse, the project falls through and it simply disappears.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by J Thom123:

Does anyone have any experience with games from Early Access moving into full release? If so, how did it work? Was that statement honored?

If this promise was broken any time in the past, you'd have seen the biggest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the history of Steam since the removal of grenades in TF2. Is there a specific reason you doubt this promise?

[J Thom123]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

If this promise was broken any time in the past, you'd have seen the biggest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the history of Steam since the removal of grenades in TF2.Is there a specific reason you doubt this promise?

Specifically:
1) The 'promise' (I avoided calling it that) is actually stated in the FAQ rather than on the game's store page or in the developer's early access description. Such a blanket statement carries less weight than a term of sale stated with the item...it also just seems different from most EULA/legalese. I would expect that a binding statement (perhaps in the EULA/purchase agreement) would be something along the lines of: "by purchasing this prerelease item you release [developer] from all liability...[blah blah blah]...additionally, should [game] transition from early access to full release or cease development, purchaser shall retain all rights of access to latest updates...[liability limitations, BS, etc., etc., etc.]...."

2) The statement on access is vague, it doesn't say what you retain access to. Do you get the full game if released? Or do you get the last update to Early Access? (this wouldn't be a deal breaker...it would just be annoying if developers sold a bunch of different versions of the same game at different levels of complete-ness...like trim levels on cars)

3) Not a great reason...but, gut feeling. You ever see a deal and just feel that something is off about it?

I know...kind of paranoid...humor me.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by J Thom123:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

If this promise was broken any time in the past, you'd have seen the biggest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the history of Steam since the removal of grenades in TF2.Is there a specific reason you doubt this promise?

Specifically:
1) The 'promise' (I avoided calling it that) is actually stated in the FAQ rather than on the game's store page or in the developer's early access description. Such a blanket statement carries less weight than a term of sale stated with the item...it also just seems different from most EULA/legalese. I would expect that a binding statement (perhaps in the EULA/purchase agreement) would be something along the lines of: "by purchasing this prerelease item you release [developer] from all liability...[blah blah blah]...additionally, should [game] transition from early access to full release or cease development, purchaser shall retain all rights of access to latest updates...[liability limitations, BS, etc., etc., etc.]...."

2) The statement on access is vague, it doesn't say what you retain access to. Do you get the full game if released? Or do you get the last update to Early Access? (this wouldn't be a deal breaker...it would just be annoying if developers sold a bunch of different versions of the same game at different levels of complete-ness...like trim levels on cars)

3) Not a great reason...but, gut feeling. You ever see a deal and just feel that something is off about it?

I know...kind of paranoid...humor me.

1. The statement comes from Valve and they're the one who run Steam.
2. The statement is clear. You'll retain access to what you bought: The game. Which will cease to exist in Early Access.
3. Yes, but this isn't that kind of deal. It isn't too good to be true.

[J Thom123]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

1. The statement comes from Valve and they're the one who run Steam.
2. The statement is clear. You'll retain access to what you bought: The game. Which will cease to exist in Early Access.
3. Yes, but this isn't that kind of deal. It isn't too good to be true.

Valve is an intermediary (middle man), that actually weakens the implied warranty of the statement vs an explicit statement made by a developer.

As for the game ceasing to exist in Early Access and being entirely replaced (not to mention the transfer of access rights) by the fully released version. That is sensible, that is what I would like to happen, but the statement that I quoted is complete. There are no other parts, it doesn't say that the Early Access version will cease to exist and be 'updated' to a released version. That is the vagary that I was speaking of, in matters of trade or law anything not explicitly stated, no matter how sensible, is not guaranteed. So no, the statement really isn't clear, what you said is the most logical interpretation of the statement, but the scenario I presented is an alternative interpretation of the exact wording of the statement, one which is potentially more profitable for the developer.

Thanks for replying to my question, but what I was hoping for was evidence that this deal isn't too good to be true...I haven't gotten that yet. Evidence, precedent, would negate the need consider things like semantic structure.

[ReBoot]

This is pretty logical. When the game gets fully released, you'll get to keep it. Tthat's it. I added everything else tonclarify the situation. Which is, quite frankly, already unambiguous

[J Thom123]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

This is pretty logical. When the game gets fully released, you'll get to keep it. Tthat's it. I added everything else tonclarify the situation. Which is, quite frankly, already unambiguous

Alright, thanks. It's really interesting to see that apparently outside of me, business execs, and Lawyers no one seems to understand that anything not explicitly stated and defined in any sort of contract is simply not true, a contract cannot imply, a contract cares nothing for "logic" or "common sense", if it isn't said it isn't true. If the contract doesn't say "you get the FULL game and all updates" than any time that's what happens constitutes a voluntary act of kindness on behalf of the developer. They aren't bound to do that at all.

Thanks again.

[ReBoot]

Weird, because on the EA information page, it reads

You keep access to the game, even if the game later moves from Early Access into fully released.

I don't get how this is not explicitely binding. You really should first read the information available and then claim that things are not said.

Besides, when dealing with customers, there's a simple rule. It goes something like "Don't be bloody evil". US companies tend to adhere that mostly. When I heard that Windows Vista will restrict access to my MP3 collection from some FSF affictionado, I knew it was a lie simply from this rule. Microsoft would never do that, it would be a corporate suicide. Same here, if Valve would remove your access the moment EA for a game is over, that would be too evil to be true. While sure, there are some contractual details that are there only to screw the customer (ISPs are notorious for that), they are well-hidden. No big company would ever screw customers in such a blatant way as you describe that.

That's what YOU need to understand. It's like I, as an engineer (which I am), never write in a specification "It should work" because that's, again, logic and/or common sense. You're being too much of a lawyer and too less of a normal person with a tad of world experience.

[Vicold]

thx

[Muppet among Puppets]

Originally posted by J Thom123:

Alright, thanks. It's really interesting to see that apparently outside of me, business execs, and Lawyers no one seems to understand that anything not explicitly stated and defined in any sort of contract is simply not true

Well, its interesting that you read then: Early AND limited access is granted.

How can it be true without stating its limited?

Just using your logic.

[Cathulhu]

Generally, the only difference is that the Early Access tag is removed and the game declared as finished and released.
Had that with Plague Inc. Evolved and Darkest Dungeon. You as a user won't notice anything.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by J Thom123:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

This is pretty logical. When the game gets fully released, you'll get to keep it. Tthat's it. I added everything else tonclarify the situation. Which is, quite frankly, already unambiguous

Alright, thanks. It's really interesting to see that apparently outside of me, business execs, and Lawyers no one seems to understand that anything not explicitly stated and defined in any sort of contract is simply not true, a contract cannot imply, a contract cares nothing for "logic" or "common sense", if it isn't said it isn't true. If the contract doesn't say "you get the FULL game and all updates" than any time that's what happens constitutes a voluntary act of kindness on behalf of the developer. They aren't bound to do that at all.

Thanks again.

Except that there's that implicit contract "Don't screw your users too blatantly". Every CEO who's in business longer than a day knows that. Besides, this contract (the Steam EA one) clearly says you get to keep the game. It's a simple as that: YOU GET TO KEEP THE GAME.

[Washell]

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

Generally, the only difference is that the Early Access tag is removed and the game declared as finished and released.
Had that with Plague Inc. Evolved and Darkest Dungeon. You as a user won't notice anything.

Same with Kerbal Space Program, and a big update to the game adding features and promoting it to 1.0.