conflicts with a developer

[Shinoskay]

Hey guys, I need some help here. So I played a free version of a game for a while (age of fear) and it was nice. As a smart advertisement trick, the developers added pay content into the free version and had it tell you that it needed to be paid for, Most games with free versions will do this, no surprise.

Well, it worked, after years of free I got convinced to pay for the full game. I reached out to the dev to explore what version of the paid game would be best,

I have ADHD and have accidentally paid for inferior versions of games before. And thats actually kind of what happened, I paid for one and found out it wasnt the one I wanted.

They were helpful for the most part, except they were also incorrect about their own game.
I was told all the games had all the content and the only real differences were what leading characters you could choose.

I asked them to let me have a version they said was what I wanted... and I found out it was missing content. So then I asked them to just land me on a newer version because I'd rather the content then the leading unit.

They then accused me of key fishing and told me to just refund and walk away from their products. Like, wth? So I tried appealing to them to help them see I'm just a dude trying to play a game. I mean, really though, how hard would it have been to just swap out the keys I had for the one I wanted? not at all. but no, they didnt even consider that. They just accused me of being a bad person and told me to go away. After another attempt or two to appeal to them, I finally gave up and just settled for what I had.

a month or so later, I found that the game suddenly stopped initializing. I tried it on another computer I'd just purchased to troubleshoot and got a similar error. I did searches and saw no one else was complaining about the error and there was no previous complaints about it.

So I decided to confront the developer to ask if they did something to cut me off from the game. They then act like I'm an audacious thief and lock the topic. I reconfront them telling them they have deeply encroached into civily criminal territory and I want them to stop and to undo whatever they did to block me from the product I purchased.

They instead delete that last post, leaving it so it looks like I didnt say anything when they called me a criminal and they ban me from that community. So now, if anyone goes there and sees the post they will think I am a criminal.

So now, here I am, trying to get help. Eventually, I plan to contact steam and ask steam what I can do as well.

[Lonely FireWolf]

Publicado originalmente por John:

Publicado originalmente por Lonely FireWolf:

Omg. Dev can't do that. If dev revoked key, then you can't run game at all. You would even don't had that game in your library, if that is the case. Your assumptions are wrong. Your computer is obviously in bad shape because user using it don't know anything about PC.

yes, for dozenth time, they can. and that particular point has already been discussed plenty in the thread. If you bring it up again I will ignore you.

Patent 9852113? And do you even understand, what that patent is? Ok, ignore me, because I tried to help you. And that was mistake. You don't want help. Error is at your side, in your computer, but whatever.

[Shinoskay]

Publicado originalmente por Lonely FireWolf:

Publicado originalmente por John:

yes, for dozenth time, they can. and that particular point has already been discussed plenty in the thread. If you bring it up again I will ignore you.

Patent 9852113? And do you even understand, what that patent is? Ok, ignore me, because I tried to help you. And that was mistake. You don't want help. Error is at your side, in your computer, but whatever.

you mean the patent that explains in its synopsis that;

((Embodiments of the present invention provide a method, system and computer program product for content driven selection of a rendering engine. In an embodiment of the invention, a method for or content driven selection of a rendering engine can include retrieving content for display in a content browser executing in memory by a processor of a host computer, mapping at least one directive embedded in the retrieved content to a target rendering engine, selecting the target rendering engine for rendering the content, and passing the content to the selected target rendering engine. In this regard, in an aspect of the embodiment, multiple directives embedded in the retrieved content can be mapped, each to one of a selection of different target rendering engines, and a most often mapped one of the target rendering engines can be selected for rendering the content.))

Blindly offering what you think is a sound suggestion, regardless of whether that suggestion has already been offered and addressed... then insulting the person and saying the persons devices are ♥♥♥♥ without even know anything about the persons devices, is not in any way helping.
It's almost the antithesis of helping, its as close to sabotage as you can get while still being able to claim positive intent.

You arent helping, you are insulting me.

[MagicMight]

Publicado originalmente por C²C^Guyver |NZB|:

If the dev does report the account and Valve does find that the account did something that constitutes piracy, something can certainly happen to the account.

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4F62-35F9-F395-5C23

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=961168214

Well. If he pirated he can be banned. But there is no proof that he either pirated, found a key published somewhere online, or attempted typing random keys to 'game the system'. Using a legit key issued by the developer himself will not get him banned. If that legit key was first obtained by a shady third-party reseller through nefarious means then the key should eventually be revoked and he will just lose the game.

I mean I can certainly see where you guys are coming from but fearmongering is not the answer.

[Callahan420]

I want to know how Les would single you out in a single player game in which if there is an update that it only affects you John and no one else. Just curious.

Edit: Never mind just seen that weird post above. Not buying it though.

Publicado originalmente por Les:

Publicado originalmente por Callahan420:

I bought the games as I said I would.
https://i.imgur.com/S3jgaGf.png

Thanks a lot! Have fun and any feedback is welcome.

Btw, if by any luck you have Steam Deck - the last version *should* be compatible. You just might need to switch to Linux Runtime compatibility mode.

Take care, Les

Your welcome and I do have a Steam Deck so I will keep that in mind.

[Shinoskay]

Publicado originalmente por Callahan420:

I want to know how Les would single you out in a single player game in which if there is an update that it only affects you John and no one else. Just curious.

Publicado originalmente por Les:

Thanks a lot! Have fun and any feedback is welcome.

Btw, if by any luck you have Steam Deck - the last version *should* be compatible. You just might need to switch to Linux Runtime compatibility mode.

Take care, Les

Your welcome and I do have a Steam Deck so I will keep that in mind.

i do not know enough about Age of Fears code, or how steam passes data, to answer that.

However, I do know servers can require certain validations and to log thoughs validations (I cant remember the official name for it, but this is one way hackers can gain access to places. they copy someone elses access certs).

I have been able to verify when I download the game it has a specific Steam appid file with a very specific number attatched. I'd explain to you how Steam APPID's are used for cracking but that could get me in trouble AND could enable others to commit bad things... needless to say those validate the game when it starts up... among other unique Identifiers.

Any one of these could be used to cross triangulate me, especially through the key les gave me... as if using his generosity as a trojan horse. Even cross valdiating that through the free version since I've played that. Allowing him to effectively Identify me in his games validation or rendering servers... that patent demonstrates one way such rendering would allow him to do that. Then, it becomes a matter of acting on that data.

This is just one theory, anyways. There are too many possibilities for me to try to reverse validate all of them and I have exhausted nearly all trouble shooting on my end that at this point there is no point in putting any more effort into investigating. All I can do now is ask if he did or not.

However, it's clear at this point he is not going to answer that... even though I have offered multiple times to put this all behind me if he did. Strange considering he kept trying to say he just wanted to be done with me... I dont actually understand why the hell he has escalated things so much, I'd have considered perhaps he had some deeply rooted sense of justice... but then if that was true then he should have gone through steam. It's evident that steam is still handling their site.

I have a theory of what it could be but to say such could be taken as flaming and I dont want to flame people.

[Shinoskay]

hopefully he didnt see what I just posted, because I just found ironclad proof hes blocking me... and that steam has not done anything to my keys. most likely he is indeed using my steam appid. Ganna just tuck this away and show it to steam later.

[Lonely FireWolf]

I have never in my life seen someone that much paranoid. He gave you key, he doesn't know what are your files and specific info in them. If he wanted, he could simply revoke your key. Why he would be going this way? You think he just released update, which only affect you? Do you know how stupid that sounds? So you tried game with another account and it worked fine? It was on the same PC? Maybe is something wrong with your user data then.

[Shinoskay]

Now that I have found it clear that Les is blocking me from using the steam subscription. here are some relevant steam user agreement lines.

I post the following in part because so many seem unaware of why it even mattered that les was blocking me, or at least to me it seemed. Hopefully any who were unaware will now be so.

((F. Ownership of Content and Services

All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Content and Services and any and all copies thereof, are owned by Valve and/or its or its affiliates’ licensors. All rights are reserved, except as expressly stated herein.))

This means, steam owns that key... not I. However... it also means

((G. Restrictions on Use of Content and Services

You may not use the Content and Services for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms. Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Content and Services or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.

You are entitled to use the Content and Services for your own personal use,[/b] but you are not entitled to: (i) sell, grant a security interest in or transfer reproductions of the Content and Services to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Content and Services to others without the prior written consent of Valve, except to the extent expressly permitted elsewhere in this Agreement ))
Entitled is legally defined;
[[Legal Definition of entitlement
1 : the state or condition of being entitled : claim evidence of victim's entitlement to money seized — National Law Journal. 2 : a right to benefits that is granted especially by law or contract (as an insurance policy)]]


this means that as a subscriber of age of fear 2 and 3, so long as steam does not deem me in violation of any agreements... it is my legal right to use that game. The fact that steam has not revoke it makes it clear they do not yet see me in legal violation of any of their agreements.

Furthermore, it is in the steam online conduct rules:

STEAM™ ONLINE CONDUCT

((Institute attacks upon a Steam server or otherwise disrupt Steam.))

And

((Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying Steam services, software or other content.))

and technically I think this last one may apply too, since my access to the game has been through steam.
(Harvest or otherwise collect information about others, including e-mail addresses.)
.

seeing as you, so too, are a steam subscriber per the definition of the same and per steam agreements, you too must abide by the online rules of conduct.

there is also;

((4. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND PROCESS TAMPERING ⏶

Your online conduct and interaction with other Subscribers should be guided by common sense and basic etiquette. They must notably comply with the Steam Online Conduct Rules, to be found at http://steampowered.com/index.php?area=online_conduct. Depending on terms of use imposed by third parties who host particular games or other services, additional requirements may also be provided in the Subscription Terms applicable to a particular Subscription.))

Furthermore.

if this is the correct valve developers forum/community
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Developer_Community:Terms_of_Use
((Your License to Valve and Other Users.
Game Sites

With regard to Posted Material that You post, edit, or otherwise contribute to a Game Site, You grant (a) to all users of the Game Site a nonexclusive, nontransferable license to use the Posted Materials for personal use, and (b) to Valve a worldwide, nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty free, fully paid up license, in connection with Valve products and services, to: (1) make, use, copy, modify, create derivative works of such Posted Material, (2) publicly perform or display, import, broadcast, transmit, distribute, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease or lend copies of the Posted Material (and derivative works thereof), and (3) sublicense to third parties the foregoing rights, including the right to sublicense to further third parties. Your license to other users is further subject to the terms of the users' valid license(s) to Valve games, including the Steam Subscriber Agreement. ))


All of this, of course, means a developer should go through steam processes to enact any efforts to stop someone from playing their game. Doing otherwise, at least to me, seems like a violation of agreements.

[Ogami]

This entire thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

[Bee🐝]

What even is this thread…

Anyway, solution is simple and nothing else matters:

All OP needs to do is send proof of purchase to the dev. If they don’t, the dev can revoke the key and report the account because the key was bought from a grey market seller.

That’s it. OP has a choice and it’s been explained to them.

[Shinoskay]

Why is it that so many people seem to come now and post stuff that is incorrect as demonstrated shortly above their post? It's kind of baffling. Especially when they have clearly read at least some of the thread history.

Publicado originalmente por Lonely FireWolf:

I have never in my life seen someone that much paranoid. He gave you key, he doesn't know what are your files and specific info in them. If he wanted, he could simply revoke your key. Why he would be going this way? You think he just released update, which only affect you? Do you know how stupid that sounds? So you tried game with another account and it worked fine? It was on the same PC? Maybe is something wrong with your user data then.

Also, you dont know my mental state or health, please do not try to make statements on either.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

John, buddy. You of course are allowed to reply, but you say you have proof. Les is the one you're upset with and want to talk to, but Les doesn't want to talk to you.

Is this productive? These people who keep posting here are just trying to start something for the "Thread Drama". If you feel okay to handle them, that's fine and you're perfectly allowed to keep battling their claims.

but is it worth it? maybe it's time to focus on the issue with Les, purely and solely? again it's your choice.

[Bee🐝]

Publicado originalmente por Zero, Dark Knight:

John, buddy. You of course are allowed to reply, but you say you have proof. Les is the one you're upset with and want to talk to, but Les doesn't want to talk to you.

Is this productive? These people who keep posting here are just trying to start something for the "Thread Drama". If you feel okay to handle them, that's fine and you're perfectly allowed to keep battling their claims.

but is it worth it? maybe it's time to focus on the issue with Les, purely and solely? again it's your choice.

OP literally doesn't need to post anymore - a totally reasonable request has been made. Proof of purchase from a legit seller and OP can walk away.

OP either sends that or they don't.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

Yessir, that's what I've been saying since page 21.

[Shinoskay]

Publicado originalmente por Zero, Dark Knight:

John, buddy. You of course are allowed to reply, but you say you have proof. Les is the one you're upset with and want to talk to, but Les doesn't want to talk to you.

Is this productive? These people who keep posting here are just trying to start something for the "Thread Drama". If you feel okay to handle them, that's fine and you're perfectly allowed to keep battling their claims.

but is it worth it? :2018salienbeast1: maybe it's time to focus on the issue with Les, purely and solely? again it's your choice.

I appreciate your attempt at guidance, by and large you are right zero. Thank you for being so awesome btw.

in large, this thread has helped me collect my thoughts and while yes, there were a few times I almost was successfully taunted into violating rules... this thread has also been an invaluable source in navigating the situation with Les. I would have never solved so much, in such a short time, with regards to this situation if it werent for this thread.

And also, one thing I am deeply concerned about is that if I try to go to les in private that I could be seen as harrassing him given that he has expressed he does not want me to engage with him even if he came here. While here, I am free to engage with him precisely because he came to me and not the other way around.

there is still a little left to get through.

To emphasize, to you even though you just recently joined and to all those who have helped me up to now. I am deeply grateful for all those who have come here and helped me. I'm actually a very sensitive person and people like you have helped a great deal.

I do understand that there is a lot of interest in just handling this between steam, myself, and les...

Maybe you could offer some advice on how to appropriate untangle this thread? separating the support aspects from the actual conflict resolution aspects?