Banned from using a specific mod?

[Kerry]

According to user Kreeg here on Steam, I can be banned by a mod author from using a specific mod.

In relevance to this topic, I have apparently been banned from using the mod WeaponCore for the game Space Engineers.

Does this not violate the Steam Subscriber Agreement?

Steam Admins or Moderators, I would like to hear from you regarding this ban and whether or not it can be lifted and whether or not this is actually a thing that can be or is done by a mod author.

And if disallowed, I would like action to be taken against Kreeg and the makers of WeaponCore for violating my right to use Valve property, which any mod on the Workshop, is.

[Cathulhu]

How does that violate the SSA?
It's the author's content and they can decide who can use it and who not.
If they can ban you in the first place.

Mods are not Valve property.

SpaceEngineers is not even Valve's property.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

How does that violate the SSA?
It's the author's content and they can decide who can use it and who not.
If they can ban you in the first place.

Mods are not Valve property.

SpaceEngineers is not even Valve's property.

Take another look at the SSA. There's a whole section dedicated to mods and the Workshop.

Here's a link to the appropriate section: https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement#6


Subsection B refers to the Workshop and, simply put, it states that once released on the Workshop, mods become Valve's property and the Workshop is essentially their "library" which they can "lend" you mods from, like books from a real library.

The Workshop is merely curated by Valve, who owns everything on it. And they can modify it, make you pay for it, or even make their own derivative works from a mod another person makes, and sell it as their own game.

It's how Garry's Mod and several other Valve games came into existence, originally being mods for the Half-Life series.

In other words, once you publish your mod you're signing over control of it to Steam. At that point, banning someone from using your mod is a breach of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and is grounds for being banned from Steam. Permanently.

The only recourse you have if you desire to ban people from using your mod, is to take it off the workshop.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

Take another look at the SSA. There's a whole section dedicated to mods and the Workshop.

Here's a link to the appropriate section: https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement#6

Simply put, it states that once released on the Workshop, mods become Valve's property and the Workshop is essentially their "library" which they can "lend" you mods from, like books from a real library.

The Workshop is merely curated by Valve, who owns everything on it. And they can modify it, make you pay for it, or even make their own derivative works from a mod another person makes, and sell it as their own game.

It's how Garry's Mod and several other Valve games came into existence, originally being mods for the Half-Life series.

In other words, once you publish your mod you're signing over control of it to Steam. At that point, banning someone from using your mod is a breach of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and is grounds for being banned from Steam. Permanently.

The only recourse you have if you desire to ban people from using your mod, is to take it off the workshop.

Except you missed - Valve is the sole owner of the "derivative works created by Valve from your User Generated Content."

Valve does not own the "original" user generated content.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

Take another look at the SSA. There's a whole section dedicated to mods and the Workshop.

Here's a link to the appropriate section: https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement#6

Simply put, it states that once released on the Workshop, mods become Valve's property and the Workshop is essentially their "library" which they can "lend" you mods from, like books from a real library.

The Workshop is merely curated by Valve, who owns everything on it. And they can modify it, make you pay for it, or even make their own derivative works from a mod another person makes, and sell it as their own game.

It's how Garry's Mod and several other Valve games came into existence, originally being mods for the Half-Life series.

Except you missed - Valve is the sole owner of the "derivative works created by Valve from your User Generated Content."

Valve does not own the original user generated content.

Actually, yes they do.

Valve:

Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.

Valve essentially has co-ownership and if the mod author desires to ban someone from that mod, you're SOL.

Banning someone from using a steam workshop contribution is a breach of the SSA and grounds for being banned from Steam.

[Chompman]

Is the person the actual author of the mod or just some random person who made a post in the mods comments as that means nothing?

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Actually, yes they do. Valve essentially has co-ownership and if you desire to ban someone from that mod, you're SOL.

Read it again:

Valve is the sole owner of the "derivative works created by Valve from your User Generated Content."

Valve does not own the "original" user generated content.

Derivative = based on original content.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Chompman:

Is the person the actual author of the mod or just some random person who made a post in the mods comments as that means nothing?

Apparently user Kreeg is one of the mod's senior developers. Not listed as a mod author but still someone who would have knowlege of any bans that have taken place.

As for me, no. I'm just a standard user.

[Lithurge]

I'd be curious how they could police the ban, as far as I'm aware Steam doesn't provide tools to enable this and does the games multi-player have the tools to enable it?

Sounds like somebody trolling to me.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Actually, yes they do. Valve essentially has co-ownership and if you desire to ban someone from that mod, you're SOL.

Read it again:

Valve is the sole owner of the "derivative works created by Valve from your User Generated Content."

Valve does not own the "original" user generated content.

Derivative = based on original content.

You read it again.

Valve:

Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.

Bans. Are. Illegal.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Lithurge:

I'd be curious how they could police the ban, as far as I'm aware Steam doesn't provide tools to enable this and does the games multi-player have the tools to enable it?

Sounds like somebody trolling to me.

Well, since I'm currently unable to use the mod in question or any submods, and according to numerous checks there's nothing wrong with the game or the mod, my guess is that this is not only enforceable, but also very much a thing.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

You read it again.

Valve:

Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.

"Rights to use" is not ownership.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

You read it again.

Valve:

Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.

"Rights to use" is not ownership.

Those "rights to use" belong to the consumers, not to valve.

According to my quote, bans that prevent specific players from using specific workshop mods are illegal according to Valve's SSA.

That's what this thread was originally about, shall we get back on that topic?

[Cathulhu]

You still haven't provided evidence that you must be granted access to user generated content.

Based on your "interpretation" you could sue a game developer because they banned you from a game.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

Those "rights to use" belong to the consumers, not to valve.

According to my quote, bans that prevent specific players from using specific workshop mods are illegal according to Valve's SSA.

That's what this thread was originally about, shall we get back on that topic?

We are on topic.

Secondly thank you for proving my point. Neither Valve nor the consumer owns the content but only the right to make use of it.

Which goes back to and you keep misreading.

Valve is the sole owner of the "derivative works created by Valve from your User Generated Content."

Valve does not own the "original" user generated content.

Derivative = based on original content - "from your User Generated Content."

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

You still haven't provided evidence that you must be granted access to user generated content.

Based on your "interpretation" you could sue a game developer because they banned you from a game.

Difference is that you charge for games. Steam Workshop is free.

According to my quote (which is direct from the SSA's section on the workshop) you must be guaranteed the same access to the workshop and the mods on the workshop, as you are to any subscription on Steam, including your Steam account itself.

If a modder bans you from using their mod on the Workshop, then they are essentially violating the terms of the SSA because the SSA guarantees everyone access to your mods no matter what.

Also, can I get someone from Valve Corp to weigh in on this? I'm seeing a lot of what people THINK is the right answer, but what I really want is a Valve employee to chime in and give me something definitive.