Phantom Controller Input in Old Game

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, please tell me if it isn't.

I'm starting an old game through Steam (Jazz Jackrabbit 2) for convenience, Steam streaming and such, but unfortunately this causes a phantom controller to always send an "up" input. This doesn't happen when starting the game without Steam.

I went to the game's controller settings in Big Picture Mode and set Steam Input to "Forced Off" but that doesn't make a difference. Any idea what's going on?

Originally posted by SOLUTION I FOUND but can't mark as thread solution because it's my own answer:

I've experimented a little more and kind of as I figured, the problem is that I can't disable Steam Input for the game. The option is set to "Forced off" but Steam ignores this and sends Xinput anyway. I think I'll just send a bug report, but first I'll try to figure out if the option to force Steam Input off won't work with any game or only with Steam native games or something.

To clarify, this means that it's not actually "phantom" input that's being sent, but rather Steam sending Xinput to the game instead of Dinput causes the up movement axis to be read as being permanently held down.

One solution for Jazz Jackrabbit 2 is to change your Steam controller configuration on your controllers to mouse and keyboard, no Xinput. This stops the permanently held down up axis from being sent to the game by Steam. Unfortunately this poses a problem for split-screen multiplayer because only two players are allowed to use keyboard input, player 3 and 4 must use controllers. Additionally, if this issue exists for other old games where you want to make use of analog input then this obviously isn't a suitable solution either.

Alternatively, for the second solution I found, you can disable all controller configuration support in your global settings by unticking the checkboxes prior to starting the game. This way old games will work, but if a Steam Controller is connected then keep in mind that its support cannot be disabled. So your Steam Controller ADDITIONALLY needs to be set to be mouse and keyboard anyhow no matter which solution you choose. Sadly, this solution is very cumbersome as you will have to remember to change your global configuration support settings every time when starting and quitting this game and potentially other old games; a major pain in the butt.

Ideally, Steam would just include Dinput mapping in Steam Input for older games, anyways; I can't wait for that feature as I have a lot of old games in my collection. But as long as that option isn't there and the only thing you can do is disable Steam Input to get controllers to work, it's a major problem when that option also happens to be bugged and not deactivatable.

[Cathulhu]

Any USB devices besides keyboard or mouse connected?
Ever used a controller wrapper/emulator or tool to use a controller with a game?

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

Again, this only happens when I launch the game through Steam, so Steam itself is causing the issue.

[Cathulhu]

This doesn't answer ANY of my questions.

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

Your questions are irrelevant given the above info, don't you think?

[Cathulhu]

Looks like you just want to rant and are not looking for help. Bye.

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

How is this even a rant, lol? Your questions are just not useful. It would have made sense to just tell me what you're suspecting and then ask because this is going nowhere. Fact of the matter is, the problem is caused by Steam. Of course I use other USB devices but none are for input beside my controllers, which however are not sending the input; Steam is. I don't use controller emulators either. All my controllers are physical.

[Nx Machina]

No one can help troubleshoot if you fail to provide answers. You are asking for help are you not.

If it works outside of Steam then use Obs or another program to Stream.

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

I'm asking for help, yes, but that wasn't help. Just pointless questions that didn't tell me anything, and I told you why they're pointless, because the issue doesn't exist whatsoever without launching the game through Steam. Meaning it's an issue with Steam. Not my USB devices or virtual controllers or whatever.

If you wanna help me just tell me what you suspect rather than merely ask questions about my USB devices, don't you think that makes more sense? :)

Also, I'm talking about Steam in-home streaming, of course. That's why I'm launching through Steam. OBS is of no use here.

[Nx Machina]

You are not asking for help when help needs to define a category you set.

No one can help without you answering questions and those answers can assist with troubleshooting the problem.

Based on your responses you do not want help but you can very clearly come up with your own suggestions as to why and solve the problem on your own.

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

It's a Steam software issue, can we get back on track with that...? I will respond to you but it's unfortunate how much this has been derailed already. Maybe I should just send a bug report. To be honest, I'd hoped someone in the know or maybe someone from Valve looking here from time to time would tell me what's up with their software.

Originally posted by Shogun Blade:

You are not asking for help when help needs to define a category you set.

What, do you think when someone asks for help, it's normal to ask questions back and refuse to explain why you want to know the things you're asking for? I'm not defining a category; I actually responded saying that the question was pointless, and I asked why they don't think the question's pointless, and they refused to give me any info, in a rather flippant way to boot. If you don't want to explain why you're asking evidently pointless questions then you either can't or don't want to help me.

As the question was not containing any info at all, I was by all means a request to provide a full list of my connected USB devices. That's a waste of my time as well as yours. I have stated, as clearly as I could, that the phantom input is only sent by Steam and when the game is launched through Steam. NOT launching the game through Steam does not send phantom input. Ergo, Steam is the culprit, and not my USB devices or even virtual controllers if I had any – I think we have done enough to establish that the question is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Shogun Blade:

Based on your responses you do not want help

Lol, listen. I DO want help with this STEAM-RELATED ISSUE but I don't want to provide you a list of my USB devices, alright? I have a lot of them and I don't need to waste that time when I have clearly concluded and demonstrated that it's a software issue with Steam. As soon as the person at least tells me why they need that list I might be convinced to provide it :P

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

I've experimented a little more and kind of as I figured, the problem is that I can't disable Steam Input for the game. The option is set to "Forced off" but Steam ignores this and sends Xinput anyway. I think I'll just send a bug report, but first I'll try to figure out if the option to force Steam Input off won't work with any game or only with Steam native games or something.

To clarify, this means that it's not actually "phantom" input that's being sent, but rather Steam sending Xinput to the game instead of Dinput causes the up movement axis to be read as being permanently held down.

One solution for Jazz Jackrabbit 2 is to change your Steam controller configuration on your controllers to mouse and keyboard, no Xinput. This stops the permanently held down up axis from being sent to the game by Steam. Unfortunately this poses a problem for split-screen multiplayer because only two players are allowed to use keyboard input, player 3 and 4 must use controllers. Additionally, if this issue exists for other old games where you want to make use of analog input then this obviously isn't a suitable solution either.

Alternatively, for the second solution I found, you can disable all controller configuration support in your global settings by unticking the checkboxes prior to starting the game. This way old games will work, but if a Steam Controller is connected then keep in mind that its support cannot be disabled. So your Steam Controller ADDITIONALLY needs to be set to be mouse and keyboard anyhow no matter which solution you choose. Sadly, this solution is very cumbersome as you will have to remember to change your global configuration support settings every time when starting and quitting this game and potentially other old games; a major pain in the butt.

Ideally, Steam would just include Dinput mapping in Steam Input for older games, anyways; I can't wait for that feature as I have a lot of old games in my collection. But as long as that option isn't there and the only thing you can do is disable Steam Input to get controllers to work, it's a major problem when that option also happens to be bugged and not deactivatable.

[Cathulhu]

FYI XInput is a Microsoft thing and has nothing to do with Steam.

But what do i know, allegedly i only ask pointless questions.

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

FYI XInput is a Microsoft thing and has nothing to do with Steam.

But what do i know, allegedly i only ask pointless questions.

Yeah, either you know nothing or you can't read properly. Steam Input hooks your controllers and then sends Xinput to games. So yes. It indeed would appear that you know nothing, ask pointless questions, and act like a massive turd all in the same breath. Thank you, don't come back.

But I guess I should at least try to educate you even though it does seem rather pointless if after all that you still believe it has nothing to do with Steam. Xinput was invented by Microsoft. That means nothing. Any software or hardware can use it and do its own thing with it, which is what Steam is doing. What you're saying doesn't even make sense. You know what else has nothing to do with Microsoft? Mayflash and Wii U controllers. And yet, those two things combined send Xinput to my games. Huh, what do you know! It's almost like any hardware or software developer can make use of Xinput regardless of who invented it.

[Cathulhu]

Steam Input is a wrapper which supports DirectInput as well. Or it wouldn't work at all in older games.
Don't embarrass yourself even further.

[The Nintendo Patent Lawsuit Fest]

No, dude. Xinput is backwards compatible with DirectInput, hence why it may or may not work with old games when Steam hooks it. Steam Input does not support DirectInput.

I don't know what your problem is but you're beyond hilarious. You're not welcome here, though. You have a serious problem with your attitude and you obviously like to pretend to know more than you do.

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

Don't embarrass yourself even further.

The irony.

Here's a challenge for you: If you can explain to me how unmapping your controllers from sending Xinput in Steam fixes this problem, and how disabling "Xbox support" in Steam makes your controllers send normal Dinput again, when allegedly "Steam has nothing to do with it" in your words, then I will take everything back.

Otherwise, you shut the hell up and don't embarrass yourself even further, alright?