The offense of unauthorized enrichment.

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fukot.sk [>] hidden bored gamer 15/dez./2017 às 10:20

The offense of unauthorized enrichment.

Steam allows third parties manipulate with our accounts.
I experienced how steam deactivated the game after 1.5 years of activation. When I asked Steam support how is it possible, the answer was, Steam has nothing to do, contact the seller (of course, the statutory time for a claim is only 0.5 years for paypal payments, this is a small amount where postage on court costs more, you do not even have the game and the money).

So, Steam allows third parties to deactivate the code on your account at any time but Steam has nothing to do with it. Really?
As if your landlord apartment has opened your apartment anytime to anyone, who will take your things without your consent and then the landlord says, I have nothing to do with it. For me you only have a leased apartment, and I'm just leaving other people there.

This is an offense across the EU.

Imagine sending an email to your mailbox, and someone will delete it at some distance without your consent. Imagine that this would allow Google, Microsoft, Yahoo. It would be a scandal. But Steam does it.

Why am I writing this?
I was witnessing the following conversation, it is already deleted

Treasure of a Blizzard http://steamcommunity.com/app/508260/discussions/0/1618346571421501019/

13 Dec @ 7:39pm
Duplicate key of this game
A month ago approx i bought from Indiegala, after a few weeks i tried to activated and it has come out that it is duplicated. Please i need a new key.

Flaming Firefly [developer] 5 minutes ago
Hi. Unredeemed keys have been locked in a month after the sale.
The reason is the resale of the keys on the illegal sites.
Send me a private message with proof of purchase. And we will solve the problem.

What's the problem:
The game creator will sell you the steam code, gets paid and then deactivates that code.
This is an unjustified enrichment, a crime.

You have purchased a license as much as we buy other works, such as books, music, videos. The one who sold you the license will ever deactivate it with justification, you should have used it earlier.
Christmas is comming. You buy a book. You donate it to someone. He opens the package, the book is not there. You ask the seller as much as possible? The answer, you did not read it for a month, so I took it.

What to write about it? This is a crime and Steam is involved.
I recommend Steam, intensively review your steam code policy, the possibility of deleting them, deactivating them because your behavior is at least within the EU against the law.
There is nothing simpler than writing the initiative to the European Commission. You may have heard that Apple has decided to pay 13 billion euros for taxes, a thing that Apple has refused for years.
Damage for the customer can be counted from the price of the game without a steam discount.
Steam enabled to remove the game from account that Steam sells for 10, 20, 30, 60 Eur.
In court, you can then argue what a real injury to the customer with whom Steam has manipulated. In any case, it is an interference with personal property.

I also recommend that the steam reassess a policy against game makers who just deactivate the codes. Codes are not stolen, were voluntarily put into circulation and the creator of games just deactivates them anytime. Because Steam allows it.
This is a crime, especially if he had previously sold them.

I will give another case, AMD, NVidia sometimes offer the games to their products. Now imagine that they are asking Steam to deactivate all the codes after 2 years. Steam does this with justification, we have nothing to do with it.
The game price of 60 Eur has been deactivated from your Steam account. Multiply this by x 100 000. At one point of deactivated game from Steam accounts at the sales price 6 000 000 Eur.
Really Steam you will not have anything to do with it?
Steam, you will claim in the court that no one has been harmed?
Will you claim that AMD, that NVidia and Steam have nothing to do with it?
How do you explain in court that you allow third parties to deactivate games on accounts?

In 2014, Steam also refused refund (other threads have been deleted by moderators) http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/616187839214888734/
Will be now Steam smarter?

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Exibindo comentários 31–45 de 46

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER 15/dez./2017 às 17:58

Escrito originalmente por DocShady:

No he doesn't. Valve took thaty right away as well. It'll go to arbitration which Valve will win regardless. Hence why Valve forces arbitration.

I wouldn't doubt it'll be in a court in Los Angeles, which is geared to handle Hollywood legal matters. That fine print that always favor these corporations, let alone IF you do win the NDA folks have to sign, too.

Yeah, hire an attorney. Nice and smug, right?

#31

fukot.sk [>] hidden bored gamer 16/dez./2017 às 17:21

I see that a lot of people, which advocate the following:

1. I'll sell you code from the game
2. I'll take your money
3. I will deactivate your code

If I sell you a license, for example, a music CD, I have no right to delete the music from that CD in case it has not been agreed in advance, rent.

It is suspicious that Steam moderators advocate an offense of unauthorized enrichment.
Imagine you buy a Steam gift. Steam gets 20 euros from you. After a month, Steam will delete the game from your account for a reason, you have had a game in the inventory in the month so that you can not sell or donate it, we will delete it without a refund and notice.
Moderators will write:
That's okay, a license, we can.

Another example:
Your employer will send you money to your account.
After a month, the employer will remove the money from your account with a justification you did not use them for a month, to prevent them being given to someone.
That's the theft!
And the bank says, we do not have anything to do with it, just give third parties access to your account.
It's a crime. This is only the right for state authorities.

Another example:

Escrito originalmente por wiscoke:
I got a notification from steam that they had to remove motorsport manager from my library due to request of the publisher. I bought this game in June on WinGameStore. And now after 5 months it isn't legal anymore?! If I want to play it again, I have buy it again or activate a gifted copy. Well, I don't own a gifted copy and why on earth should I pay again for a game wich I already payed for. is this a new way of making money on games?! or is wingamestore selling illegal keys?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/415200/discussions/0/1488866813765908674/

I personally have unused codes in the Amazon library, HumbleBundle, BundleStars. Everything paid. Now Christmas. I give someone a game, key, "license" which I paid and I find that the codes are destroyed because the creator of the game has decided.
He has my money but I do not have a countervalue from him, a valid game license. This is a crime of unauthorized enrichment.

See your own criminal codes, the following apply to us (Slovakia, EU):

(1) Whoever enriches himself or herself by improperly interfering with the technical or software equipment of a computer, slot machine or other similar device or technical device used for the automated sale of goods, changing or withdrawing money or providing paid services, services , information or other fulfillment that the goods, services or information will be obtained without the required reimbursement or the money will be obtained unlawfully and will cause minor damage to the foreign property, shall be punished by imprisonment for up to two years.

(2) Deprivation of liberty for six months to three years shall be punished by the offender if he commits the offense referred to in paragraph 1
(a) causing more damage,
(b) of a special motive, or
(c) more serious conduct.

(3) The offender shall be liable to a term of imprisonment of three to eight years if he commits the offense referred to in paragraph 1 and causes considerable damage.

(4) The offender shall be liable to a term of imprisonment of between seven and twelve years if he commits the offense referred to in paragraph 1
(a) causing large-scale damage,
(b) as a member of a dangerous grouping, or
(c) in a crisis situation.

So, you buy a game, for example, to support charity. You do not use the code because you does not want the game, or you already have it. You decide to give it to someone. Duplicate code. Now you find that all the codes are destroyed. Year 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016. All codes destroyed. The developer took the money for the licenses and prevent you from owning the license. The developer took the money for nothing. Scam.

Now find out what happened. The store says, like HumbleBundle or retail shop, this is the code from the developer, we just gave it to you. Steam says, we have nothing to do with it. Paypal says, returning money is only 180 days. A developer? He does not have any business relationship with you.
You do not have money, you do not have a license. Perfect scam.

I want to emphasize, Steam has removed game from my library for more than a year and a half from activation! To the question, revocation is time-limited? No.
Anyone can lose games from Steam account after year, two, three, ten.
The answer: Steam has nothing to do with it.
What? Was the license revoked from my Steam account and Steam has nothing to do with it?
Are there third parties deleting licenses from Steam accounts?
Is Steam a trustworthy service?

#32

El poco nuez del muerte 16/dez./2017 às 17:55

Escrito originalmente por fukot.sk:
I see that a lot of people, which advocate the following:

1. I'll sell you code from the game
2. I'll take your money
3. I will deactivate your code

After all these explanations you still have not understood ANYTHING at all. This is amazing, just absolutely amazing.

#33

Glimmer 16/dez./2017 às 18:08

Escrito originalmente por fukot.sk:
1. I'll sell you code from the game
2. I'll take your money
3. I will deactivate your code

99% of the time, that is not an accurate depiction of what happens. (in a general sense, there's a handful of variations but they all end the same)

1) I sell a code to Bob for $10
2) Bob sells the code to you for $5
3) Bob initiates a chargeback forcibly withdrawing the $10 from my bank account
4) I cancel the code Bob bought since at this point he hasn't paid for it
(at this point you're out $5 and a code. I'm slapped with fees from the charge back and nothing from you or Bob. Bob's $5 richer)
5) You rant and rave about how you were scammed by Valve/myself
Bonus points if during the ranting and raving step there's a declaration to continue to buying from people like Bob in order to teach Steam/me a lesson.

0.9% are like the indiegamestore where a bunch of unsold keys were stolen and the Dev kills the keys to protect himself and then works to fix the problem with legitimate purchases.

The 0.1% where it does happen as you describe...I've never heard of it happening (at least not on Steam) but I'm feeling charitable.

Última edição por Glimmer; 16/dez./2017 às 18:09

#34

fukot.sk [>] hidden bored gamer 16/dez./2017 às 18:20

Can game developer sell Steam codes?
YES!
Will the game developer get the money for the codes?
YES!
Can the game developer invalidate the sold codes?
YES!
Will you have a game for money that you paid for?
NO!

You can lose your license AT ANY TIME! Revocation (deleting from your Steam account) or destroyed unused code (say duplicate).

Your fixation on indiegamestore is your problem. Or Amazon, HumbleBundle are small, insignificant shops?

#35

Zekiran 16/dez./2017 às 18:51

"our" fixation?

Dude, you have zero idea of how things in the real world work.

You're told straight up when you buy these codes: they are for digital media only, and cannot be transferred. You cannot make money off them after you've played them on a PC.

You cannot refund them after a fair amount of time (2h/2w) but Steam allows for refunds *at all* which brick and mortar shops and most other companies online *do not do*.

The game developer can invalidate whatever they want - it's theirs, and you are basically renting their product. They don't just do this at a whim, they only remove codes when they believe there's a good chance of those codes having been illegally created or stolen from a valid dealer. That is their right.

If you bought a 'used car' from some guy and it turned out his entire lot of cars were stolen from the dealership up the street, you would still have to give the car back to the dealer, because it was stolen.

It really is that simple.

You've dragged this on for 3 pages, and still don't comprehend that what you want is not real and reality doesn't care what you think.

#36

fukot.sk [>] hidden bored gamer 16/dez./2017 às 19:30

Escrito originalmente por Zekiran:
"our" fixation?
The game developer can invalidate whatever they want - it's theirs, and you are basically renting their product. They don't just do this at a whim, they only remove codes when they believe there's a good chance of those codes having been illegally created or stolen from a valid dealer. That is their right.

If Steam cancels your account because it's a Steam account, their service and games are not yours but the developers, on your steam account there is nothing yours, will you be fine, because Steam, game developers have the right whatever they want?
So you do not have a problem if they ever remove, revoke from your account for example Prey, Fallout 4, because The game developer can invalidate whatever they want?

You have no problem if Apple, Microsoft ever deactivate all licenses, systems? Whatever they want - it's theirs, and you are basically renting their product?

#37

Glimmer 16/dez./2017 às 20:06

At this point, most of have accepted that it's a possibility. It's a standard component in just
about every piece of current software. Our options are to either not use software, write our own software, or accept the current reality and hope that the fact that it hasn't happened in a couple decades will continue not happening.

If you feel that strongly about it
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4650-SDKC-0716

#38

Zekiran 16/dez./2017 às 20:48

Escrito originalmente por fukot.sk:

You have no problem if Apple, Microsoft ever deactivate all licenses, systems? Whatever they want - it's theirs, and you are basically renting their product?

I have an XP laptop and a Windows 7 desktop.

Windows could try, but I have avoided the Windows 10 / software as a service thing entirely.

Our point here is: you can either shut up and never use software, and deny yourself the enjoyment that they bring, or you can shut up and deal with the reality of the way things are distributed.

I'm not arguing that their way is "RIGHT", I'm saying that is simply how it IS, and complaining here of all places will NOT help you win a case. (Or apparently, even understand the case you keep trying to make, which has in fact been put forth in a court - and lost in the important ways that you wanted it to win.) If you want to make actual changes to how these things are done? Get into politics and start being active in your area about laws regarding the process. Because anything outside of that is basically pissing in the wind.

#39

Flava Clown 17/dez./2017 às 6:02

Escrito originalmente por Zekiran:

Our point here is: you can either shut up and never use software, and deny yourself the enjoyment that they bring, or you can shut up and deal with the reality of the way things are distributed.

Or he could start to buy from sites like gog.com where the games purchased are DRM free and once downloaded, are his to keep. (for as long as his storage device allows)
No forced updates either.

#40

Tito Shivan 17/dez./2017 às 6:11

Escrito originalmente por Flava Clown:
Or he could start to buy from sites like gog.com where the games purchased are DRM free and once downloaded, are his to keep. (for as long as his storage device allows)
No forced updates either.

Fun fact: The same can happen there. The dev can void a GOG license as much as another one. And keeping the software without a valid license would legally count as piracy.

#41

Flava Clown 17/dez./2017 às 6:46

Escrito originalmente por Tito Shivan:
Escrito originalmente por Flava Clown:
Or he could start to buy from sites like gog.com where the games purchased are DRM free and once downloaded, are his to keep. (for as long as his storage device allows)
No forced updates either.
Fun fact: The same can happen there. The dev can void a GOG license as much as another one. And keeping the software without a valid license would legally count as piracy.

So what you basically saying is, that piracy would be the best way to avoid this kind of problems along with all the problems caused by DRM.

#42

Tito Shivan 17/dez./2017 às 6:55

Escrito originalmente por Flava Clown:
So what you basically saying is

What I'm saying is licenses work the same way with and without DRM.

Última edição por Tito Shivan; 17/dez./2017 às 6:55

#43

fukot.sk [>] hidden bored gamer 22/dez./2017 às 19:46

Steam is publicly informed about this (Steam function), so that you can not later claim that Steam does not know anything about it:

Escrito originalmente por Gianan:
Same situation as other.
I bought the bundle, and my key now is not valid (start with 9276F- ecc)

Are you kidding, developer??!!
You cannot do that, you're going to have very serious conseguences.
Fix this, ASAP.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/508260/discussions/0/1621724915776681460/

"devotee 39 minutes ago
Indie Gala The Anime Treasure Bundle
I'm pretty sure I posted a message on this discussion board but I can't seem to be able to find it...

I bought this game from Indie Gala's "The Anime Treasure Bundle" a couple of months ago and when I try to redeem the Steam key it won't work. Can you please tell us what's going on?
Thanks in advance! "
Now deleted: http://steamcommunity.com/app/508260/discussions/0/1621724915776342721/

I feel that your German branch should look for lawyers.

#44