Steam's no returning stolen goods policy: potentially illegal in Europe

[programainutil]

Recently, my Steam account (specifically, this one) got hacked, including an assigned email change. Whilst, thankfully, I have been able to recover this account, the hacker returned a game bundle I had purchased, and Steam's policy means they would not undo the operation (and I cannot repurchase the game as it was bought on a Christmas discount)

Now, here is where it gets interesting. Directive 2015/2366, regarding payment services (which the Steam platform operates as, as stated in Annex I of said directive), Article 73 states that "In the case of an unauthorised payment transaction, the payer’s payment service provider refunds the payer the amount of the unauthorised payment transaction immediately, and in any event no later than by the end of the following business day, after noting or being notified of the transaction". A return is a payment transaction so, by this article, they should return the good

Whilst the following article describes that I may be subject to a maximum liability of 50 euros, said article is not applicable if the transaction was not detectable to me prior to being commited and I was not acting fraudulently. Of additional note, I was operating under email-based 2factor, which means this was done under Steam's security systems.

Any notes, comments, or opinions?

[RedLightning]

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

Escrito originalmente por Boblin the Goblin:

It isn't.

The account was compromised and a game was refunded. Nothing was stolen.

Stealing someone's account is a crime. Doesn't matter if social engineering was involved.

Exactly this.. I often wonder why all these *users* here come down on those that had contact with 'criminals'

Love how the innocent are blamed when the bad guys steal their ♥♥♥♥.

There really needs to be something done about this as I've never seen so *MANY* of these damned posts saying 'my account was hacked' 'I lost all my stuff' ..

The only ones who makes out here is criminals, who are of course, going to keep doing what they are doing cause, well, you know they can.

[Lamiosa]

It is not the topic, but how did you get hacked? Just wanting to expand my knowledge about security.

[Zarineth]

Escrito originalmente por Lamiosa:

It is not the topic, but how did you get hacked? Just wanting to expand my knowledge about security.

Considering some of the groups OP is in, I would guess he handed credentials for his account for a promise of free stuff.

[Lamiosa]

Escrito originalmente por Zarineth:

Escrito originalmente por Lamiosa:

It is not the topic, but how did you get hacked? Just wanting to expand my knowledge about security.

Considering some of the groups OP is in, I would guess he handed credentials for his account for a promise of free stuff.

So the reason how 98% of "hackers" get it: social engineering or input of user.

[Tito Shivan]

Escrito originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Escrito originalmente por Stormer:

why are you putting it here instead of filing a complaint with your government then

Because people who talk about litigation over stolen CS2 skins, etc. Always want someone else to start the litigation process "just in case".

Just like boycotts, it's always better if it's someone else putting their face first.

Escrito originalmente por Jenkem Junkie:

Yeah, but the problem is that if someone is logging in from another country and then suddenly back from their normal location it becomes extremely suspicious.

Or someone is just using a VPN.

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

Stealing someone's account is a crime. Doesn't matter if social engineering was involved.

One quite nasty to sort out though. Your US account gets stolen by a russian citizen located in Singapore through a phishing site hosted in a throwaway server in Thailand paid with botcoins.

Just the number of jurisdictions involved make the thing a bloody mess.

Escrito originalmente por RedLightning:

There really needs to be something done about this as I've never seen so *MANY* of these damned posts saying 'my account was hacked' 'I lost all my stuff' ..

Oh my sweet summer child. The account theft nowadays is a mere drop in the ocean of all the existing Steam accounts. Security has made Steam Accounts watertight to the point where it's unconvenient for the user sometimes. You're always going to have victims falling for scams though.

It seems you weren't around when these forums were little more than pages upon pages upon pages of people getting hijacked and stolen of all their items. Hundreds of threads, daily, on every subforum...

The actual situation isn't 'that bad' in any shape or form.

[Jenkem Junkie]

Escrito originalmente por Tito Shivan:

Escrito originalmente por Jenkem Junkie:

Yeah, but the problem is that if someone is logging in from another country and then suddenly back from their normal location it becomes extremely suspicious.

Or someone is just using a VPN.

Already brought that up. Read my posts instead of joining the discussion last minute under the assumption you know everything.

[Paratech2008]

Escrito originalmente por RedLightning:

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

Stealing someone's account is a crime. Doesn't matter if social engineering was involved.

Exactly this.. I often wonder why all these *users* here come down on those that had contact with 'criminals'

Love how the innocent are blamed when the bad guys steal their ♥♥♥♥.

There really needs to be something done about this as I've never seen so *MANY* of these damned posts saying 'my account was hacked' 'I lost all my stuff' ..

The only ones who makes out here is criminals, who are of course, going to keep doing what they are doing cause, well, you know they can.

If people share their account information with others, what is Valve supposed to do?

People are supposed to know better than share account info.

And if they're using 3rd party trading sites that's not permitted by Valve either.

People handing over Steam account info to strangers need to understand that behavior will have consequences.

[KarmaKrazi]

Another person that got phished and thinks that Steam should be held accountable for the users inability to keep their account information secure. Also, a return is what was granted when the refund was given, so the law you were quoting is irrelevant. What you are talking about here is a "repurchase". There is no law stating that a seller must allow you to repurchase an item that you've returned at the sale price that you bought it for when you first bought it. Stop trying to twist laws in your favor. Secure your account, and keep it that way. Your account is your responsibility.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por RedLightning:

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

Stealing someone's account is a crime. Doesn't matter if social engineering was involved.

Exactly this.. I often wonder why all these *users* here come down on those that had contact with 'criminals'

Love how the innocent are blamed when the bad guys steal their ♥♥♥♥.

There really needs to be something done about this as I've never seen so *MANY* of these damned posts saying 'my account was hacked' 'I lost all my stuff' ..

The only ones who makes out here is criminals, who are of course, going to keep doing what they are doing cause, well, you know they can.

I was referring to Valve not allowing him to buy the game again at the original discount he bought it.

[Chika Ogiue]

Escrito originalmente por Jenkem Junkie:

Yeah, but the problem is that if someone is logging in from another country and then suddenly back from their normal location it becomes extremely suspicious. You'd have to be able to teleport if you wanted to realistically accomplish that.

Bob has two PCs. He has his super computer home gaming PC beast and a relatively powerful laptop that's pretty good at handling games, too. Bob doesn't like to close out every app at night after a major gaming session, so he uses hibernate on his gaming beast. This means he never signs out of Steam unless he has to.

Mr Cleg is Bob's rather annoying boss. He's suddenly realised there is urgent business on the other side of the world and only Bob can handled it, Bob suddenly finds himself on a super-sonic jet to sunnier pastures for the next week. Luckily for Bob, he's got his laptop to game on. He's got Steam on there, too. So Bob enjoys his week playing games and doing that boring work stuff.

Meanwhile back at home, Alice, Bob's not-so-better half (at least when it comes to gaming and PCs) boots up Bob's beast so she can have a little go of her favourite hack and slash. As soon as Bob's PC springs to life, Steam recognises he's logged in at home despite having been logged in a few moments ago on the other side of the world via his laptop. Now, Bob had just finished his gaming session at 4 am, and gone to bed with his laptop also on hibernate.

So, Steam doesn't auto sign him out, on either PC. It notices that he's accessed Steam services from two wildly different locations. And no foul play was needed for that to be the case.

And yes, this works in real life. No teleport needed. No VPN needed. Just one person with two PCs, and an irritating boss that likes to drop surprises and use of hibernation.

[Crashed]

Escrito originalmente por RedLightning:

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

Stealing someone's account is a crime. Doesn't matter if social engineering was involved.

Exactly this.. I often wonder why all these *users* here come down on those that had contact with 'criminals'

Love how the innocent are blamed when the bad guys steal their ♥♥♥♥.

There really needs to be something done about this as I've never seen so *MANY* of these damned posts saying 'my account was hacked' 'I lost all my stuff' ..

The only ones who makes out here is criminals, who are of course, going to keep doing what they are doing cause, well, you know they can.

I don't see the same victim blaming on any other service, and more likely other services having a dedicated place to report phishing.

[Chika Ogiue]

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

I don't see the same victim blaming on any other service, and more likely other services having a dedicated place to report phishing.

Took a two second search on Google:

https://devforum.roblox.com/t/please-help-me-i-got-hacked-and-all-my-robux-was-spent/2964749

"Account security is your responsibility"
"Your 'bux won't be returned"
"You must protect your own account"

In other words, pretty much what people say here, with a similar channel for reporting phising.

[Paratech2008]

As long as people share their account info what do you expect?

People choose to share account info. They aren't forced to do it.

Usually people who never visited the Steam forums.

After getting phished they come here and "warn" people, the majority who get scammed aren't even visiting this site.

The issue gets discussed almost daily and nothing changes.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Given how easy it is to not get phished on Steam, you have to be blinded by greed or borderline complicit with getting your account phished.

They quite literally need THREE data points. Your Steam login username (which should remain different from any other website login), your Steam password (again, common sense. Don't make it obvious, keep it different from otherwebsites), and your SteamGuard code (which...you shouldn't be putting into ANY website other than Steam itself).

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

You are responsible for the confidentiality of your login and password and for the security of your computer system. Valve is not responsible for the use of your password and Account or for all of the communication and activity on Steam that results from use of your login name and password by you, or by any person to whom you may have intentionally or by negligence disclosed your login and/or password in violation of this confidentiality provision.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/