Digital VS Physical! It shall be Owned!

[Official King Willex]

I should of been on the debate team in school cause this is going to spark some conflation's here.
Some one on twitter say's Valve, Has Updated subscription agreement that these tax's we pay will be added up during check out but "We don't own these digital games"...

Now i'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. Physical or digital If it's sitting on my shelf in a collection or other wise. If I payed for it. I own it. I had physical games before and they ended up stolen. I buy digital copy's now cause they can't be stolen. Now trying to convince ME i down own these game's. You'll have a hard time getting me to believe as such.

I'll say this much right now. If a game is removed from the steam store and yet still in my library. Guess what that mean's? I still own it. No one's going to tell me otherwise.

So Valve. Be sure to speak Clearly next time you have an update like that. Cause other wise what am I paying for? Digital air? 😅 I don't think so.

[Toonen1988]

Postat inițial de Piston Smashed™:

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

CD's/DVD's came with a product key in the case or on a lose paper. If the CD or DVD got broken, you could easily contact the publisher and they would send you a new CD/DVD without a new product key.

If you lose the product key, that's your own fault. That's how it worked in the past.

I know how it worked (sometimes), I have Condition Zero on physical disc which I broke six months after I bought it back in 2004. Luckily for me I had already activated it on Steam, I could have probably got a new disc but what was the point when I could download it at any time.

I have games going back to the 70's on cassette, cartridges, floppy disc etc. Back on my Atari 2600 it was a cartridge, on my Spectrum it was cassettes, my Mega Drive cartridge, my Amiga floppy disc etc.

Can I get any of those games replaced if I break them or if they have degraded, after all I paid for them and I can physically touch them so I own them right?

What if I would say "no." Are you going to say that i'm contradicting myself with my last reply? You take everything massively out of context.

Games are now being distributed on digital platforms for years. The time when I ask for new data carriers from a publisher (cd's/dvd's) was in a time that the most games where still distributed through cd's/dvd's. Now it won't work anymore indeed, since games are now mostly being distributed online.

But since people are going back in time to give a argument, then I can do it to? Isn't it?

Saying "what about catrigdes from the 70's" You and me know 100% that those aren't in production anymore, which makes it a while different story.

[Crazy Tiger]

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Give a good reason why publishers won't help you now anymore?

Various game developers/publishers simply choose to not do such things anymore. And your anecdotes don't mean much in that. I mean, I have experiences with game developers/publishers on both ends. Some helping, others refusing to do so.

It also doesn't matter if there are "good" reasons, or reasons at all. Game developers/publishers who don't want to help simply have one "reason": they don't want to.

[Toonen1988]

Postat inițial de Crazy Tiger:

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Give a good reason why publishers won't help you now anymore?

Various game developers/publishers simply choose to not do such things anymore. And your anecdotes don't mean much in that. I mean, I have experiences with game developers/publishers on both ends. Some helping, others refusing to do so.

It also doesn't matter if there are "good" reasons, or reasons at all. Game developers/publishers who don't want to help simply have one "reason": they don't want to.

This is such a general answer, I don't see anywhere a specific reason why publishers wouldn't help you, which I ask in my reply I buy games from authorized sellers and I haven't got any problems so far. So, no idea why you have a different expierence.

[Crazy Tiger]

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Postat inițial de Crazy Tiger:

Various game developers/publishers simply choose to not do such things anymore. And your anecdotes don't mean much in that. I mean, I have experiences with game developers/publishers on both ends. Some helping, others refusing to do so.

It also doesn't matter if there are "good" reasons, or reasons at all. Game developers/publishers who don't want to help simply have one "reason": they don't want to.

This is such a general answer, I don't see anywhere a specific reason why publishers wouldn't help you, which I ask in my reply I buy games from authorized sellers and I haven't got any problems so far. So, no idea why you have a different expierence.

A general question gets a general answer. But also cause it doesn't matter whether there are "specific" reasons. It always boils down to a choice they make. People just want "good" or "specific" reasons because they want to judge those reasons, but their judgement is irrelevant.

Activision is one of the publishers who can be quite the annoying prick in such things, for example.

[Toonen1988]

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Give a good reason why publishers won't help you now anymore?

Because there's a problematically high percentage of people whowill and do take advantage of such charity and good will.. And that costs the publisher money.

You can't simply refuse support to honest customers because some people try to take the advantage. It's strange that many publishers still have a support team going on.

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

I don't understand which road you want to go with this conversation. RIght now, all my games are digital, so I don't need to bother them with broken CD's/DVD's. But if I have a issue with a product key, I just contact them, very simple.

Just saying that if you tried that now. You'd probably get turned down. I mean for starters with digital purchases there are no product keys to lose

"Turned down", what do you mean? And what do you mean "no product keys to lose". We where talking about physical products, remember? Someone ask when a CD or DVD got broken back in the day.

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Publishers only refuse giving support to people who bought keys from unauthorized sellers. As long you buy from authorized sellers and keep the proof of the purchase, they will help you.

Or any seller. Because the matter of the key is between you and the retailer.
If you bought it legitimately you can go to the site you bought it from and see it at literally any time. So there's no reason for them to get inviolved.

No, publishers only refuse support for keys that are bought from unauthorized sellers. I never saw a publisher giving no support to a person who bought the product from a authorized sellers.

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

You just can't stop giving support to customers, because some people try to "game the system".

Yes you can. especially when it costs you money.

If companies don't spend money on support or services, they will lose customers and give reputation damage. Which will end in losing even more money.

[Toonen1988]

Postat inițial de Crazy Tiger:

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

This is such a general answer, I don't see anywhere a specific reason why publishers wouldn't help you, which I ask in my reply I buy games from authorized sellers and I haven't got any problems so far. So, no idea why you have a different expierence.

A general question gets a general answer. But also cause it doesn't matter whether there are "specific" reasons. It always boils down to a choice they make. People just want "good" or "specific" reasons because they want to judge those reasons, but their judgement is irrelevant.

Activision is one of the publishers who can be quite the annoying prick in such things, for example.

So, you have a opinion and people can't ask why you have this opinion or expierence, because you think it's judgemental and therefor irrelevant.

Damn, it must be hard to have normal dicussions with you then. If someone has a opinion, I would like to know why or reasons. Otherwise I just find the opinion irrelevant just as a person being judgemental.

[76561198407601200]

Postat inițial de Tito Shivan:

Postat inițial de Doctor ♥♥♥♥ Respect:

you guys are doing a really bad job at selling this whole license thing. Im not interested in it, ill just keep owning my games. You can keep your license

The thing is everywhere regardless of you bein interested on it or not. You may think you're 'off the hook' by buying DRM Free games you (think you) 'own' But your position isn't much different than the guy who says lives 'off the grid'... But every two weeks goes to the gas station to buy gas for his generator. It's all a charade in the end and you're still part of the system.

You also serve as an example of many of the previous steps that have brought us to where we are.

People are entitled to be wrong. They will own the game until they don't.

[Start_Running]

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Because there's a problematically high percentage of people whowill and do take advantage of such charity and good will.. And that costs the publisher money.

You can't simply refuse support to honest customers because some people try to take the advantage. It's strange that many publishers still have a support team going on.

When you have no ability to tell the honest ones from the dishonest ones...you kinda have to limit the degree to which you are willing to support customers.

Again. it's simple pragmatism.

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Or any seller. Because the matter of the key is between you and the retailer.
If you bought it legitimately you can go to the site you bought it from and see it at literally any time. So there's no reason for them to get inviolved.

No, publishers only refuse support for keys that are bought from unauthorized sellers. I never saw a publisher giving no support to a person who bought the product from a authorized sellers.

And yet i have. See how that works?

Postat inițial de Toonen1988:

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Yes you can. especially when it costs you money.

If companies don't spend money on support or services, they will lose customers and give reputation damage. Which will end in losing even more money.

Does it though, does it?
Observable data shows otherwise.
And yeah there is a balance that needs to be struck and each business fdetermines what is an acceptyable level of loss and expenditure.

[Rollandusa]

Official king...buy an external hard drive up to 16 tb ...installed all the games you own on steam..you have a physical copy saved.....cd dvd disk doesn't guarantee gameplay if it get scratched or cracked..nothing last forever

[✪ Miscreation ⚥ ☯ 🎭]

Let the ilusions of ownership go... We do not own ANYTHING in this whole world, we just "rent" things, even our own physical bodies don't really belong to us.
They do all the work/bugfixes/updates, why are people complaining? After buying a game you just have to press "Install" then "Play", it's perfect!

[RiO]

Postat inițial de Miscreation:

Let the ilusions of ownership go... We do not own ANYTHING in this whole world, we just "rent" things, even our own physical bodies don't really belong to us.
They do all the work/bugfixes/updates, why are people complaining? After buying a game you just have to press "Install" then "Play", it's perfect!

Until an update that introduces a bug and breaks something critical in a progression-halting, save-corrupting manner. Which lasts for months. (Super Robot Wars 30)

Or changes system requirements in such a way that the game no longer works on your existing hardware which used to be able to run the same game just fine. (Resident Evil)

Or introduces content changes you don't agree with compared to the prior version.
Maybe the publisher relied on third-party licensed content that they don't want to renew on their end, so they're just going to rip it out. (Grand Theft Auto)