Finding a good new RPG is impossible

[p0mpous]

They either arent RPG's like the Witcher, amall scale CRPGs like Baldurs Gate or they are about 20 years old.

[Kiryn]

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

If there wasnt the audience they wouldnt people remaking these games. Big companies also wouldnt falsely the the term RPG to try and sell their games.

Just because your definition of "RPG" is ridiculously specific, doesn't make all those other RPGs 'falsely labeled'.

(it's especially amusing, because most nitpicky 'RPG fans' consider Action RPGs to be *not* RPGs. Because in a *real* RPG, things are determined by the skills of the character, not the action-skills of the player. You know, like in those "small scale CRPGs" the OP claims aren't RPGs.)

[p0mpous]

Origineel geplaatst door The nameless Commander:

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

If there wasnt the audience they wouldnt people remaking these games. Big companies also wouldnt falsely the the term RPG to try and sell their games.

The Shadowrun trilogy has enough roleplaying elements to fit the RPG genre as does Pillars of Eternity and every other game which gives you freedom to approach a situation like you would in a tabletop RPG. Obviously the companies who have the resources to make the kind of game you want are NOT INTERESTED in making one and you are downplaying the ones who WANT to make games which fit the RPG genre but lack the scale and scope you demand from them because they don't have the resources and manpower needed to make a world which has several DnD campaigns worth of content.

Sure but things like the Witcher or Hogwarts legacy are not RPGs yet they often get called RPG's. The ability to approach scenarios from different angles does not make a game an RPG, you can do that in Crysis, its not an RPG.

To be an RPG you must meet a variety of criteria, for instance to be an RPG you must be able to create your own character, however that alone does not make you an RPG, you must also be allowed to make story and character choices, but having these alone does not make you an RPG, it must also have some kind of character progressions system that results from your actions and play style, however just having this does not make you an RPG.

[Crazy Tiger]

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

Origineel geplaatst door Crazy Tiger:

I honestly think that in todays market you are being too critical. Plenty of games have existed that don't really get made anymore because there isn't enough interested audience to warrant the costs to make those games, or make them right at least. And in the off-chance that there is a large enough group, remaking an older title is in todays market a much safer option, it seems.

In this case you're looking for a type of game that gets close to tabletop. The good ones were made in an era where tabletop was bigger as well. Many devs and players from then were tabletop players (myself included, mind). In todays age, that's not so much true anymore.

You're wanting something that doesn't have the market or appeal it used to have anymore. So if you're not ok with the modern variants of such games, you are SOL in that regard. I think that you're not the type of audience that sparks much interest with game devs/publishers anymore.

If there wasnt the audience they wouldnt people remaking these games. Big companies also wouldnt falsely the the term RPG to try and sell their games.

I intentionally said "not enough interested audience" and that remaking older games is the safer option. And it's not falsely using a term just because you have a different definition of it.

But it's clear. You want the "my way or the highway" approach. That only hinders yourself. Good luck with that, traveller.

[p0mpous]

Origineel geplaatst door Crazy Tiger:

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

If there wasnt the audience they wouldnt people remaking these games. Big companies also wouldnt falsely the the term RPG to try and sell their games.

I intentionally said "not enough interested audience" and that remaking older games is the safer option. And it's not falsely using a term just because you have a different definition of it.

But it's clear. You want the "my way or the highway" approach. That only hinders yourself. Good luck with that, traveller.

The fact that games like Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind are still having mods made for them, the fact that daggerfall has a fan remake and arena is also having one. The fact that Oblivion is confirmed to be having a real remaster. All of these things disagree with you.

You then also have things like Skyblivion, Skywind. There is a huge audience for these kinds of games, they are just hard to make a modern game developers lack the skill to do so. Shown by the decline in general quality of games over the past 15 years.

In the past there were masterpieces being released every year, there hasnt been one in ages.

[wesnef]

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

To be an RPG you must meet a variety of criteria, for instance to be an RPG you must be able to create your own character, however that alone does not make you an RPG, you must also be allowed to make story and character choices, but having these alone does not make you an RPG, it must also have some kind of character progressions system that results from your actions and play style, however just having this does not make you an RPG.

Bu your definition, the vast majority of RPGs released over the last 40 years (even before this era of adding "RPG features" to everything) wouldn't count as RPGs.

The big sticking point is your "you must create your own character." Eh, not really. Mass Effect and Witcher are RPGs, even though you play Commander Shepard or Geralt. The main requirement is the story & character choices.

Heck, there's lots of tabletop RPG games & sessions where you get handed a pre-made character. Most 'tournament' RPG play at gaming conventions like Origins or GenCon are done with pre-made characters. It's in finding what you think the motivations & decisions of those characters would be, that the "role playing" is.

[p0mpous]

Origineel geplaatst door wesnef:

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

To be an RPG you must meet a variety of criteria, for instance to be an RPG you must be able to create your own character, however that alone does not make you an RPG, you must also be allowed to make story and character choices, but having these alone does not make you an RPG, it must also have some kind of character progressions system that results from your actions and play style, however just having this does not make you an RPG.

Bu your definition, the vast majority of RPGs released over the last 40 years (even before this era of adding "RPG features" to everything) wouldn't count as RPGs.

The big sticking point is your "you must create your own character." Eh, not really. Mass Effect and Witcher are RPGs, even though you play Commander Shepard or Geralt. The main requirement is the story & character choices.

Heck, there's lots of tabletop RPG games & sessions where you get handed a pre-made character. Most 'tournament' RPG play at gaming conventions like Origins or GenCon are done with pre-made characters. It's in finding what you think the motivations & decisions of those characters would be, that the "role playing" is.

Correct because they aren't. You cant call a game an FPS unless its first person, and a shooter. Categories need to be exact otherwise they are meaningless.

The vast majority of these games people call RPG are just story driven actions adventure games.

The Witcher and Mass Effect are not RPGs at all, you always X character and sure you can bend that character but you are always this character. An RPG must give you total or near total control over who and what your character is.

So yes. Those campaigns with premade character are not table top RPGs anymore, they are tabletop something but no RPGs.

[Thermal Lance]

Some people should just stick to table top.

[wesnef]

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

The Witcher and Mass Effect are not RPGs at all, you always X character and sure you can bend that character but you are always this character. An RPG must give you total or near total control over who and what your character is.

So yes. Those campaigns with premade character are not table top RPGs anymore, they are tabletop something but no RPGs.

And on that note, there's no reason to continue this farce.

[Volfogg]

Find a good, old RPG then? Honestly, I remember having fun with Wizardry 6, 7 & 8 and Morrowind long time ago. Now I'm seeking to replay Morrowind, which frankly means a lot of bunny hopping and swimming early for skill, but I can stomach that. After all I spent several dozens of hours grinding skills to 50 on 1st castle level in Wizardry 6.

[Low Standards]

Did you try Starfield?

[p0mpous]

Origineel geplaatst door wesnef:

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

The Witcher and Mass Effect are not RPGs at all, you always X character and sure you can bend that character but you are always this character. An RPG must give you total or near total control over who and what your character is.

So yes. Those campaigns with premade character are not table top RPGs anymore, they are tabletop something but no RPGs.

And on that note, there's no reason to continue this farce.

Its not a farce. If you said these games have RPG elements then fine but to just call them RPGs when they are not is just nonsense.

[p0mpous]

Origineel geplaatst door Low Standards:

Did you try Starfield?

No. I dont intend on it, looked at reviews for it and gameplay and it seems to be pretty poor.

[p0mpous]

Origineel geplaatst door Volfogg:

Find a good, old RPG then? Honestly, I remember having fun with Wizardry 6, 7 & 8 and Morrowind long time ago. Now I'm seeking to replay Morrowind, which frankly means a lot of bunny hopping and swimming early for skill, but I can stomach that. After all I spent several dozens of hours grinding skills to 50 on 1st castle level in Wizardry 6.

I know loads of good old one, but I have played them, I want something new.

[Low Standards]

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

Origineel geplaatst door The nameless Commander:

The Shadowrun trilogy has enough roleplaying elements to fit the RPG genre as does Pillars of Eternity and every other game which gives you freedom to approach a situation like you would in a tabletop RPG. Obviously the companies who have the resources to make the kind of game you want are NOT INTERESTED in making one and you are downplaying the ones who WANT to make games which fit the RPG genre but lack the scale and scope you demand from them because they don't have the resources and manpower needed to make a world which has several DnD campaigns worth of content.

Sure but things like the Witcher or Hogwarts legacy are not RPGs yet they often get called RPG's. The ability to approach scenarios from different angles does not make a game an RPG, you can do that in Crysis, its not an RPG.

To be an RPG you must meet a variety of criteria, for instance to be an RPG you must be able to create your own character, however that alone does not make you an RPG, you must also be allowed to make story and character choices, but having these alone does not make you an RPG, it must also have some kind of character progressions system that results from your actions and play style, however just having this does not make you an RPG.

That is correct. Starfield in particular isn't an RPG. What happened was turn-based RPGs were too boring or old school and the action-rpg was invented. Sadly it is more action than RPG. Now any game can be called an action-rpg.

[Low Standards]

Origineel geplaatst door p0mpous:

Origineel geplaatst door Volfogg:

Find a good, old RPG then? Honestly, I remember having fun with Wizardry 6, 7 & 8 and Morrowind long time ago. Now I'm seeking to replay Morrowind, which frankly means a lot of bunny hopping and swimming early for skill, but I can stomach that. After all I spent several dozens of hours grinding skills to 50 on 1st castle level in Wizardry 6.

I know loads of good old one, but I have played them, I want something new.

Can you be a little more clear what RPG you want to play so I can help you?