Finding a good new RPG is impossible

[p0mpous]

They either arent RPG's like the Witcher, amall scale CRPGs like Baldurs Gate or they are about 20 years old.

[The nameless Gamer]

No longer that much in demand. People don't want to spend hours bumbling around on huge maps without knowing where they have to go like in Planescape Torment, Divinity and Fallout 1. The folks who could appreciate that no longer have time for it, being stuck in a 9-5 schedule and the rest (myself included) wants things happening faster on the screen.
The RTS genre is going through a similar situation, so I know how you feel. It's a shame but... can't change the fact that the kind of game you want is no longer highly in demand and thus no longer widely and readily available. The best approach you can take is search patiently.

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by The nameless Commander:

No longer that much in demand. People don't want to spend hours bumbling around on huge maps without knowing where they have to go like in Planescape Torment, Divinity and Fallout 1. The folks who could appreciate that no longer have time for it, being stuck in a 9-5 schedule and the rest (myself included) wants things happening faster on the screen.
The RTS genre is going through a similar situation, so I know how you feel. It's a shame but... can't change the fact that the kind of game you want is no longer highly in demand and thus no longer widely and readily available. The best approach you can take is search patiently.

I dont agree that they arent in demand. Devs just dont make them because they take time and some technological understanding and ambition, something that is lacking in modern games developers.

People are willing to spend loads of time playing games. The amount of time people spend in games hasnt changed.

Just look at recent open world games that call themselves RPG, the things that separates them from being RPG is mostly scope and scale, why? Because devs just cant be bothered to put in the extra effort and time it takes to make a real RPG.

Ill say even DOS2 and BG3 arent really RPG's far too small scale.

Just look at the sheer amount of people who still play "RPG's" of over 10 years ago, look at Daggerfall Unity and Wayward Realms, people want these games but its just modern game devs are basically sub par. All they do is turn out the same poorly made crap over and over and over.

The best example of this is the new retro shooter genre. They are just all the same and lazy.

[The nameless Gamer]

Originally posted by p0mpous:

Originally posted by The nameless Commander:

No longer that much in demand. People don't want to spend hours bumbling around on huge maps without knowing where they have to go like in Planescape Torment, Divinity and Fallout 1. The folks who could appreciate that no longer have time for it, being stuck in a 9-5 schedule and the rest (myself included) wants things happening faster on the screen.
The RTS genre is going through a similar situation, so I know how you feel. It's a shame but... can't change the fact that the kind of game you want is no longer highly in demand and thus no longer widely and readily available. The best approach you can take is search patiently.

I dont agree that they arent in demand. Devs just dont make them because they take time and some technological understanding and ambition, something that is lacking in modern games developers.

People are willing to spend loads of time playing games. The amount of time people spend in games hasnt changed.

Just look at recent open world games that call themselves RPG, the things that separates them from being RPG is mostly scope and scale, why? Because devs just cant be bothered to put in the extra effort and time it takes to make a real RPG.

Ill say even DOS2 and BG3 arent really RPG's far too small scale.

Just look at the sheer amount of people who still play "RPG's" of over 10 years ago, look at Daggerfall Unity and Wayward Realms, people want these games but its just modern game devs are basically sub par. All they do is turn out the same poorly made crap over and over and over.

The best example of this is the new retro shooter genre. They are just all the same and lazy.

Times change, whatever the reason behind it. If you want to play REAL RPGs, nothing tops pen&paper, Dungeons & Dragons, Shadowrun and that others. I've played DnD and it's a blast. But making a good campaign takes effort. Also, please don't call developers lazy. My cousin and his wife are programmers and for university, they did a project, they programmed the board game "Windmill" into a PC game. What's 16 lines on a paper sheet and a handful of pebbles in meat space is over 4800 lines of code WITHOUT an AI opponent, just 2-player mode. If a game as simple as "Windmill" is 4800+ lines of code, imagine the time and effort needed to code something like "Planescape Torment". And that's just the coding. There's also artwork, music, voice acting...
If something as ambitious as a modern version of a digitized DnD campaign is to be made, it requires time, effort and MONEY to be made. So it has to pay off. I'm pretty sure people who WANT to make such games exist but they either don't dare to take the risk or KNOW that the risk won't pay off. They perceive the target audience as not big enough for such ambitious projects.

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by The nameless Commander:

Originally posted by p0mpous:

I dont agree that they arent in demand. Devs just dont make them because they take time and some technological understanding and ambition, something that is lacking in modern games developers.

People are willing to spend loads of time playing games. The amount of time people spend in games hasnt changed.

Just look at recent open world games that call themselves RPG, the things that separates them from being RPG is mostly scope and scale, why? Because devs just cant be bothered to put in the extra effort and time it takes to make a real RPG.

Ill say even DOS2 and BG3 arent really RPG's far too small scale.

Just look at the sheer amount of people who still play "RPG's" of over 10 years ago, look at Daggerfall Unity and Wayward Realms, people want these games but its just modern game devs are basically sub par. All they do is turn out the same poorly made crap over and over and over.

The best example of this is the new retro shooter genre. They are just all the same and lazy.

Times change, whatever the reason behind it. If you want to play REAL RPGs, nothing tops pen&paper, Dungeons & Dragons, Shadowrun and that others. I've played DnD and it's a blast. But making a good campaign takes effort. Also, please don't call developers lazy. My cousin and his wife are programmers and for university, they did a project, they programmed the board game "Windmill" into a PC game. What's 16 lines on a paper sheet and a handful of pebbles in meat space is over 4800 lines of code WITHOUT an AI opponent, just 2-player mode. If a game as simple as "Windmill" is 4800+ lines of code, imagine the time and effort needed to code something like "Planescape Torment". And that's just the coding. There's also artwork, music, voice acting...
If something as ambitious as a modern version of a modern DnD campaign is to be made, it requires time, effort and MONEY to be made. So it has to pay off. I'm pretty sure people who WANT to make such games exist but they either don't dare to take the risk or KNOW that the risk won't pay off. They perceive the target audience as not big enough for such ambitious projects.

I dont agree, pen and paper just lacks the interactivity and its also awfully balanced and you basically have to wait on other people to play it. In general even with a good DM its pretty lack luster.

[Kargor]

Well, then you already know what to do. Either play the existing uber-RPGs like those Daggerfall Unity and Wayward Realms you mentioned (*), or make a "real RPG" yourself to show people how it's done.

(*) I don't know what a "real RPG" is, or why these specific games are so good. However, in 99% of the posts where people complains about "scale" and stuff, they expect games to provide something new all the time -- so even if these games are 10 years old, they still give you new stuff all the time, right?

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by Kargor:

Well, then you already know what to do. Either play the existing uber-RPGs like those Daggerfall Unity and Wayward Realms you mentioned (*), or make a "real RPG" yourself to show people how it's done.

(*) I don't know what a "real RPG" is, or why these specific games are so good. However, in 99% of the posts where people complains about "scale" and stuff, they expect games to provide something new all the time -- so even if these games are 10 years old, they still give you new stuff all the time, right?

Large issue Wayward isnt available to be played yet and daggerfall unity while it is in unity is still a game that is nearly 30 years old and it looks it. I dont want to be looking at sprites in 2024.

When a game from the mid 90s has more scope and scale than any game released in the past decade then you know that modern game devs are unskilled and lazy.

I mean the Witcher 3 is held up as some great RPG yet it has a small map, no side factions, no character creator so you are always Geralt so you cant RP, as a result you are always the same class with the same rough play style. All the side quests if you can even call them quests are tied into the main questline meaning you are always forced down a narrative. It has all these limitations that make it clearly not even in the line of discussion to be an RPG, yet its seen as one of the best RPG in the last 10 years.

Then you have things like BG3 which is a perfectly good game but its scale is depressingly small, how can you have large scale events going on convincingly when I could kick and ball a few times and nearly be all the way across the map?

In the last 15 years we have gone from vast open world with in some cases nearly a 1000 hours of content just in exploration alone to these small, empty, pointless maps that have basically nothing of note in them.

"or make a "real RPG" yourself to show people how it's done."

Give me a team of people and it will happen. These teams of people already exist unfortunately they are currently making crap like Starfield.

[Jaunitta 🌸]

Red Dead Redemption 2 Story is a game that surpasses Witcher 3 Wild Hunt which was my fav.

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by Jaunitta 🌸:

Red Dead Redemption 2 Story is a game that surpasses Witcher 3 Wild Hunt which was my fav.

Ok? I agree but whats does that have to do with RPGs?

[eram]

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by eram:

Small scale RPG, looks turn based, not what I am looking for.

[eram]

what exactly are you looking for?

[lsdninja]

Didn't we just go over this?

The problem is that OPs definition of what constitutes an "RPG" is so ridiculously narrow it excludes pretty much everything.

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by eram:

what exactly are you looking for?

A modern replacement to games like daggerfall, or a modern version of something like Morrowind, or even something like KCD but where it has magic and you can actually create a character and a class.

[eram]

have you ever played daggerfall unity?
https://www.dfworkshop.net/

[p0mpous]

Originally posted by eram:

have you ever played daggerfall unity?
https://www.gog.com/en/game/daggerfall_unity_gog_cut

https://www.dfworkshop.net/

Yes, loads. It has its own issues that should have been addressed in games by now. I also hate bill boarded sprites.