So... Capcom shenanigans (When does DRM prove to be too much?)

[V-Bro - The Titan's Driver]

Well, in regards to the title's question, I'm sure many players say it's already too much whenever the subject comes up.

But I suppose I mean more to ask, "When does DRM become so much that a massive resistance and possibly legal action is required to beat it back?"
And a prime example has just reared its ugly head.

For those who haven't learned yet, Capcom has taken sneaky actions of adding "Enigma DRM" to several of its already-released games, right here on Steam.

What for? To block and prevent the use of mods in their games. ALL mods.
Needless to say, with that also came performance and stuttering issues as well.

Their excuse? There are many, but those familiar with a certain conference that happened a couple months ago probably recall this: Capcom declared mods to be the equivalent of cheating. (Oh, and the company also doesn't like mods that "violate public order and morals.")

So now Capcom has quickly gotten aggressive attacking any mods, including cosmetic ones that don't affect gameplay at all. And it doesn't end there - they've also recently taken to attacking internet gameplay videos depicting any mods, with copyright strikes.

I believe people should be very concerned with this, even if they don't play any Capcom games at all. After all, if one company can do this, what's to stop others from following example? Remember Rockstar attacking some GTA mods not so long ago?
Can you picture Bethesda suddenly saying you're no longer allowed to use Steam workshop for Skyrim tomorrow? I can - Don't assume they're above that.

And it really begs to question: Just how far should companies be allowed to control mods anyways, because I certainly don't think Capcom should be 'permitted' to do THIS. It's a bad omen for future gaming.

Of course, I'm no legal expert, and even if I was, I wouldn't really know the best course of action here to protect mods when it comes to the international gaming market.

But at least, I think Steam needs start putting in certain limits on how exactly a company can "update" a game. I always feared this risk with games and service always tied online, and once again, problems are materializing.
I strongly desire protections for old games that people possess for years so that, among other reasons, a company cannot suddenly decide to force a performance-killing DRM that restricts how players play their game for their own fun.

Because who's dumb enough to believe this is only about stopping cheating? It's an excuse, not the motive or target.

[potato]

Castyles eredeti hozzászólása:

First things first: You're blocked because you just keep trolling everywhere and I've no patience for crap such as this so I won't reply, further.

lmao wow

"you're not validating my poor excuses for pirating games and i don't agree with your counterpoints so you're a troll and now blocked"

also, if i'm blocked then why even respond? that's something a troll would say to bait someone into arguing with them

[Realigo Actual]

Once you have all upgraded your gpu cases you will be able to run Denuvo acceptably with a minimum of stuttering and crashes.

Everyone else is just looking to pirate games and/or not wanting to put up with mtx ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and $120~ premium editions with extra colors.

CAPCOM is well within its right to take advantage of the fact that CAPCOM fanbois will allow it to oversell them on anything and mess up anything.

[potato]

Actual Crinkle Taters eredeti hozzászólása:

Once you have all upgraded your gpu cases you will be able to run Denuvo acceptably with a minimum of stuttering and crashes.

denuvo has nothing to do with your gpu, it's cpu bound

[Bio[redacted]]

Its just the "hot coffee" all over again. A bunch of stuffy prudes freaking out about brand risks rather than alienating the people they actually are supported by.
Legality aside, attempting to prevent mods is as futile and endeavour as trying to track down everyone who's ever hacked something. And without government levels of security, some hacker is probably going to crack the code faster than even an AAA developer can probably afford to keep up with, especially with games that are older.

BJWyler eredeti hozzászólása:

V-Bro - The Titan's Driver eredeti hozzászólása:

A redundant statement we already know, and I say that's why we need to break that extreme hold. Adjustments are needed. (Easier said than done of course.)
What a massive grave error that we've allowed control freaks to entrench themselves this much into our games.

While the open nature of the PC allows for gamers to do many things with games, including mods (which of course is one of the advantages of PC gaming), developers and publishers are under no obligation to support any of it.

Some love the modding community, others despise it and do consider it cheating. There is nothing wrong with either viewpoint. The devs/pubs own the game and have every right to restrict what is done with it for any reason. While I may disagree with not supporting mods, I accept and respect any dev who takes that position.

So, ultimately, there is nothing wrong with what Capcom is doing. It's up to the gaming community to put aside their entitlement and respect the choice of the owner of said games, even if we don't agree with it. Modding is a privilege, not an inherent right.

Did nothing wrong? They used a tactical nuke on a problem that required only a hammer.
Many games owe their longevity to mods like STALKER and Darkest Dungeon.
Not only do they alienate the customers they rely on by such extreme measures.
I'm not going to call you a corporate bootlicker for the sake of civility (and it makes arguments weak anyways when you commit an ad hominim) but people who just go along with whatever crap a company shovels at them is the reason things have degraded to such a state.

[Castyles]

Piston Smashed™ eredeti hozzászólása:

Because a game has DRM is not an excuse to pirate games. It is just a way for someone to verify to themselves that it is OK for them not buying the games they are playing. If you are going to pirate games at least grow a pair and just admit that you pirate games because you don't want to pay for them.

One thing has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. Quit the gaslighting, already.

If the publishers/developers REALLY wanted to punish the pirates, rather than the legit customers, they would add something such as the flowchart below, to all DRM:

"Was the game acquired via Steam? Yes. DRM doesn't activate."

"Was the game acquired via Steam? No. DRM activates."

Simple as that and I'm sure plenty of people are more than capable of doing something such as this.

[Lunar Fang]

Do any of the people sucking on Capcoms ♥♥♥♥ know that Capcom doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about them either and would gladly put them in a blender for profit? I guess not.

[Stone IV]

Yeah, I just placed them on ignore. Boycott.

Whoever thought that modding games would be a such a crime is insane. Their games would be played less, and people would be far more keen to being less interested in their projects. The reason why I came back to Steam was because they are affordable; with garbage behaviour like this from companies is just nonsensical to treat mods as an accessory for a crime is baffling.

Valve also needs to crack down on these terrible ethics employed by companies like Capcom. This is just not simply customer friendly.

Oh well, moving on. No longer supporting this company anyway.

[MSXCF]

Piston Smashed™ eredeti hozzászólása:

MSXCF eredeti hozzászólása:

It is very sad when game developers drive customers into piracy.

The developers nor anybody else are driving any one to pirating games. That is just a very poor excuse of someone trying to justify themselves of pirating games.

You don't think that many get so aggravated by this that they turn to piracy?
Many would be a bit tempted already, Capcom didn't need to give them another reason.

Wether you or me think that is a good or bad reason doesn't change much.

potato eredeti hozzászólása:

Castyles eredeti hozzászólása:

Shifting the blame, huh. Nice try.

nope, just saying that a publisher making bad decisions doesn't entitle you to free games

if you don't want to buy their games for it, that's understandable, but if you're not buying it so you could pirate it, that's just making up excuses to justify piracy

I have not said anyone are entitled to free games, I don't believe anyone did. I did also not express any justification for piracy. I said Capcom is driving customers into piracy.

I know that free software is not the only motivation for piracy, and I'll be surprised if Crapcom isn't adding to this problem.

But even if many obtains a pirated version of one of those OLD games, I guess that it won't hurt Capcom as much as if it was a new game. Because many of the "pirates" ALSO have purchased a LEGAL copy in the past, but don't want to deal with the DRM when they run the game. Because they want to continue to use their mods, and perhaps in some cases get back lost performance.

A worry though: A number of them may continue to pirate other games instead of buying them. Not good.

I'm unsure if adding DRM long after the games were sold is legal, as it is adding software and not updating software. It also degrades the user experience. And I do not trust anyone here to be an expert on law, and anyone talking like they are an expert is trusted even less.

Legal or not, it is a crap move and Crapcom's ethical standard stinks. I wouldn't say if pirates are a lot worse or not. But sometimes the biggest scumbag is the one who does everything the legal way.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Aachen eredeti hozzászólása:

:spazdunno: Wouldn’t expect too much unilaterally from Valve on that front. Good luck with resistance/legal action against Capcom, though, traveler!

Indeed, this is the big thing. I hope that Valve pulls the updates back by force and restricts updates within reason but one big selling point steam has is that they don't do that. This means updates for development games or patch-later mentality is easy, but this is the payoff. Meanwhile I'm laughing my ass off in Goglan because I saw this ♥♥♥♥ happening months ago.

BJWyler eredeti hozzászólása:

V-Bro - The Titan's Driver eredeti hozzászólása:

A redundant statement we already know, and I say that's why we need to break that extreme hold. Adjustments are needed. (Easier said than done of course.)
What a massive grave error that we've allowed control freaks to entrench themselves this much into our games.

While the open nature of the PC allows for gamers to do many things with games, including mods (which of course is one of the advantages of PC gaming), developers and publishers are under no obligation to support any of it.

Some love the modding community, others despise it and do consider it cheating. There is nothing wrong with either viewpoint. The devs/pubs own the game and have every right to restrict what is done with it for any reason. While I may disagree with not supporting mods, I accept and respect any dev who takes that position.

So, ultimately, there is nothing wrong with what Capcom is doing. It's up to the gaming community to put aside their entitlement and respect the choice of the owner of said games, even if we don't agree with it. Modding is a privilege, not an inherent right.

Incorrect, modification of the files on your computer is absolutely your right. Your HDD or SSD is your property and portions of it are not loaned out to any individual company for them to decide how it's used and operator. I do not have to respect a company claiming ownership over a partition of my system any more than I give the guy who produced my TV the right to decide what channels I can and cannot watch on it. ♥♥♥♥♥♥ -sold- it to me, not rented me an isolated DvD, the right to demand what I run on my system alongside it or how the files on my drive is managed and altered isn't anyone business but mine as the owner.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

MSXCF eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm unsure if adding DRM long after the games were sold is legal, as it is adding software and not updating software. It also degrades the user experience. And I do not trust anyone here to be an expert on law, and anyone talking like they are an expert is trusted even less.

Legal or not, it is a crap move and Crapcom's ethical standard stinks. I wouldn't say if pirates are a lot worse or not. But sometimes the biggest scumbag is the one who does everything the legal way.

It is not, not legal one bit. IT runs under intentional sabotage of a sold product. You can't go into a dude's car and damage the engine while working on it than say "well w/e, not my problem, the tool I used just sucked."

[Chompman]

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

Aachen eredeti hozzászólása:

:spazdunno: Wouldn’t expect too much unilaterally from Valve on that front. Good luck with resistance/legal action against Capcom, though, traveler!

Indeed, this is the big thing. I hope that Valve pulls the updates back by force and restricts updates within reason but one big selling point steam has is that they don't do that. This means updates for development games or patch-later mentality is easy, but this is the payoff. Meanwhile I'm laughing my ass off in Goglan because I saw this ♥♥♥♥ happening months ago.

BJWyler eredeti hozzászólása:

While the open nature of the PC allows for gamers to do many things with games, including mods (which of course is one of the advantages of PC gaming), developers and publishers are under no obligation to support any of it.

Some love the modding community, others despise it and do consider it cheating. There is nothing wrong with either viewpoint. The devs/pubs own the game and have every right to restrict what is done with it for any reason. While I may disagree with not supporting mods, I accept and respect any dev who takes that position.

So, ultimately, there is nothing wrong with what Capcom is doing. It's up to the gaming community to put aside their entitlement and respect the choice of the owner of said games, even if we don't agree with it. Modding is a privilege, not an inherent right.

Incorrect, modification of the files on your computer is absolutely your right. Your HDD or SSD is your property and portions of it are not loaned out to any individual company for them to decide how it's used and operator. I do not have to respect a company claiming ownership over a partition of my system any more than I give the guy who produced my TV the right to decide what channels I can and cannot watch on it. ♥♥♥♥♥♥ -sold- it to me, not rented me an isolated DvD, the right to demand what I run on my system alongside it or how the files on my drive is managed and altered isn't anyone business but mine as the owner.

The files do not belong to you as they belong to the game devs / publishers as you only purchased a license to use the game.

They can 100% say no mods are allowed to be used for their game if they have the ability to prevent it or ban people for using them as many games they can be used as cheats.

Drm has been a thing before steam was around and will continue to be around for many reasons and they can modify their game files whenever they want.

[MSXCF]

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

MSXCF eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm unsure if adding DRM long after the games were sold is legal, as it is adding software and not updating software. It also degrades the user experience. And I do not trust anyone here to be an expert on law, and anyone talking like they are an expert is trusted even less.

Legal or not, it is a crap move and Crapcom's ethical standard stinks. I wouldn't say if pirates are a lot worse or not. But sometimes the biggest scumbag is the one who does everything the legal way.

It is not, not legal one bit. IT runs under intentional sabotage of a sold product. You can't go into a dude's car and damage the engine while working on it than say "well w/e, not my problem, the tool I used just sucked."

Has it been tested in a court of law, and in which jurisdiction? Often even experts on law can't agree on law.

But regardless if it is legal or not, Steam could have a policy against it. It is drastically changing the product post purchase to the disadvantage of the user and if laws don't forbid it, then Steam should. I can't believe that Steam is not free to have a policy on this.

[Chompman]

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

MSXCF eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm unsure if adding DRM long after the games were sold is legal, as it is adding software and not updating software. It also degrades the user experience. And I do not trust anyone here to be an expert on law, and anyone talking like they are an expert is trusted even less.

Legal or not, it is a crap move and Crapcom's ethical standard stinks. I wouldn't say if pirates are a lot worse or not. But sometimes the biggest scumbag is the one who does everything the legal way.

It is not, not legal one bit. IT runs under intentional sabotage of a sold product. You can't go into a dude's car and damage the engine while working on it than say "well w/e, not my problem, the tool I used just sucked."

Have you seen the recent news where car companies can revoke certain features on more modern cars such as we have seen with Tesla revoking features or similar instances?

[smeggot]

DRM is one player in the two player game of leapfrog. Not speaking at all to legality, OFC, but legalese changes over time, FWIW.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Chompman eredeti hozzászólása:

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

Indeed, this is the big thing. I hope that Valve pulls the updates back by force and restricts updates within reason but one big selling point steam has is that they don't do that. This means updates for development games or patch-later mentality is easy, but this is the payoff. Meanwhile I'm laughing my ass off in Goglan because I saw this ♥♥♥♥ happening months ago.


Incorrect, modification of the files on your computer is absolutely your right. Your HDD or SSD is your property and portions of it are not loaned out to any individual company for them to decide how it's used and operator. I do not have to respect a company claiming ownership over a partition of my system any more than I give the guy who produced my TV the right to decide what channels I can and cannot watch on it. ♥♥♥♥♥♥ -sold- it to me, not rented me an isolated DvD, the right to demand what I run on my system alongside it or how the files on my drive is managed and altered isn't anyone business but mine as the owner.

The files do not belong to you as they belong to the game devs / publishers as you only purchased a license to use the game.

They can 100% say no mods are allowed to be used for their game if they have the ability to prevent it or ban people for using them as many games they can be used as cheats.

Drm has been a thing before steam was around and will continue to be around for many reasons and they can modify their game files whenever they want.

Incorrect, the files were -sold- to me, thus a licence. A license is not a lease. Thats why a rented DvD, a leased product, is entirely independent and leaves no files distributed. It doesn't try to partisan a part of my hard drive then claim right to own that partisan.Fact is if the game was rented to you the contract would need to be provided to you at time of purchase with clear communication of it needed to be returned and operation would not be in your hands. And no, steam doesn't own your games either, if they did you wouldn't be legally allowed to sign the EULA, since it's not your game and thus not your right to sign agreements regarding a product you don't own. Valve would be signing those.

I would advise learning the difference between a license, a description of the state of material sold to you(for example one complete copy like common for games, or each file being independently owned like for music, or just full right of distribution) and a lease, which is just a rental agreement. And even in a rental agreement altering the state of the leased item mid-lease to alter the advertised functions or operative functions would still not be legal. A renter cannot walk in, forcibly alter the property he leased without reason and then expect to not pay you when that alteration damages the property. Hell, there isn't a contract in the United states that is legally allowed to wrench the right to forcibly control and alter part of your hard drive against your will. why do you think pirated Windows still runs? Because it can't just lock you out of every file and software.