So... Capcom shenanigans (When does DRM prove to be too much?)

[V-Bro - The Titan's Driver]

Well, in regards to the title's question, I'm sure many players say it's already too much whenever the subject comes up.

But I suppose I mean more to ask, "When does DRM become so much that a massive resistance and possibly legal action is required to beat it back?"
And a prime example has just reared its ugly head.

For those who haven't learned yet, Capcom has taken sneaky actions of adding "Enigma DRM" to several of its already-released games, right here on Steam.

What for? To block and prevent the use of mods in their games. ALL mods.
Needless to say, with that also came performance and stuttering issues as well.

Their excuse? There are many, but those familiar with a certain conference that happened a couple months ago probably recall this: Capcom declared mods to be the equivalent of cheating. (Oh, and the company also doesn't like mods that "violate public order and morals.")

So now Capcom has quickly gotten aggressive attacking any mods, including cosmetic ones that don't affect gameplay at all. And it doesn't end there - they've also recently taken to attacking internet gameplay videos depicting any mods, with copyright strikes.

I believe people should be very concerned with this, even if they don't play any Capcom games at all. After all, if one company can do this, what's to stop others from following example? Remember Rockstar attacking some GTA mods not so long ago?
Can you picture Bethesda suddenly saying you're no longer allowed to use Steam workshop for Skyrim tomorrow? I can - Don't assume they're above that.

And it really begs to question: Just how far should companies be allowed to control mods anyways, because I certainly don't think Capcom should be 'permitted' to do THIS. It's a bad omen for future gaming.

Of course, I'm no legal expert, and even if I was, I wouldn't really know the best course of action here to protect mods when it comes to the international gaming market.

But at least, I think Steam needs start putting in certain limits on how exactly a company can "update" a game. I always feared this risk with games and service always tied online, and once again, problems are materializing.
I strongly desire protections for old games that people possess for years so that, among other reasons, a company cannot suddenly decide to force a performance-killing DRM that restricts how players play their game for their own fun.

Because who's dumb enough to believe this is only about stopping cheating? It's an excuse, not the motive or target.

[JOHNwiththeWlND]

I cannot believe how many rubes are totally brainwashed into supporting DRM in general, let alone adding it to games that are over a decade old (causing stability issues, crashes, virus alerts, etc.).

Some of the responses in this thread have to be from Capcom or Enigma/DRM employees. There's just no way otherwise.

Capcom is wiping its rear end with any and all goodwill its built up since around 2017. If this becomes the norm, then PC gaming will have taken a serious blow. Shame on all involved.

[Chompman]

Originalmente postado por JOHNwiththeWlND:

I cannot believe how many rubes are totally brainwashed into supporting DRM in general, let alone adding it to games that are over a decade old (causing stability issues, crashes, virus alerts, etc.).

Some of the responses in this thread have to be from Capcom or Enigma/DRM employees. There's just no way otherwise.

Capcom is wiping its rear end with any and all goodwill its built up since around 2017. If this becomes the norm, then PC gaming will have taken a serious blow. Shame on all involved.

It's because we have been gaming long enough to understand this is nothing new and mods are always a "use at your own risk".

[Psychlapse]

Originalmente postado por Piston Smashed™:

Originalmente postado por BJWyler:

How true. The only time I really ran into a problem with DRM is when the activation servers that Disney used for some games, like Tron: Evolution. When I went to install it on my new PC, I found that I couldn't, so I had to find someone who had set up a fake activation server in order to get it installed and running on my rig.

But the thing that amazes me the most is the crying you will hear from the gaming community about greedy devs, and how they are trying to nickel and dime everyone, but they won't think twice about stealing a game they want to play. Maybe devs and pubs wouldn't need to nickel and dime the gaming community if everyone just paid for the games - it's not like the price has risen all that much in the last 40 years. Heck it's cheaper to be a gamer now than it was in the 80's.

I remember my dad driving 20 miles to the Atari shop when I was a young lad,just so he could spend 50 quid a pop on Atari 2600 games back in the early 80's. I paid 50 quid a pop back in the 90's for my games, I think I still have the receipt for Final Fantasy VII, Suikoden and few others for £49.99 in their case.

I've always loved the excuse "well if they didn't have DRM I'd pay for the game" but then you check their accounts and 95% of the time it's full of free to play games or games which have been given away free and at best a few handful of games which were 95% off in some sale a few years ago.

Oh don't come in here with your logic and reason. It disrupts the narrative.

[Silverkite]

Originalmente postado por JOHNwiththeWlND:

I cannot believe how many rubes are totally brainwashed into supporting DRM in general, let alone adding it to games that are over a decade old (causing stability issues, crashes, virus alerts, etc.).

Some of the responses in this thread have to be from Capcom or Enigma/DRM employees. There's just no way otherwise.

Capcom is wiping its rear end with any and all goodwill its built up since around 2017. If this becomes the norm, then PC gaming will have taken a serious blow. Shame on all involved.

fanboys, even if this is maybe the fourth time that crapcom installs literal rootkits in your machine, they will never get that. I don't even get what kind of goodwill their build up since 2017 cause they are basically dead since the release of RE4

It's like dealing with nintendo and apple gobblers

[Paratech2008]

Offended? Stop buying and supporting Capcom.

That's the only power anyone has.

[m662]

Originalmente postado por Nx Machina:

Originalmente postado por V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:

I seriously doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

You chose to post "we" which is not singular, while not being affected by the changes.

Originalmente postado por V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:

I don't play the currently affected games myself, but I fear something I DO have might get hit in the future.

As for:

Originalmente postado por V-Bro - The Titan's Driver:

If you're so adamant about EULA's, would you like to read them all and point out where it explicitly says a company can retro-actively force DRM into a game that was bought back in 2013? And also explain how a player can reasonably expect such a radical action 10 years in the future, or even think that could happen, well after it's been purchased? And then repeat the process for every other game you ever play?
Even you should know how impractical EULAs are to work with; anyone trying to read and interpret them would waste over half their life in the attempt. Companies know that too; they pay lawyers to make them so.

They OWN the game you only have a licence for therefore they can retroactively change and update a EULA, add DRM etc and it is not illegal to do so.

Microsoft updates it's EULA every time there is a new version of Windows.

Valve updates the SSA, Ubisoft their TOS etc, etc.

Games with an online component can change which anti cheat solution they use, or update the one they chose to the newest version without consulting the end user, nor require agreement to do so.

There is one problem with that certain country laws prohibit changes to contract without informing the user beforehand.

Changing the terms requires amending the contract
Once two or more people, such as a business and a user, have created a valid, binding contract, neither of them can change the terms of that contract by themselves. They must obtain the other party's agreement, and they must meet the four legal criteria again. The proposed change to the terms is a new offer, which the other party must accept, along with a "meeting of the minds." If the new terms make significant changes to the original contract, they may need to have new consideration.

A business therefore cannot change its TOS on its own and have those changes apply to existing users. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals reached this conclusion in a 2007 decision, Douglas v. Talk America. The court held that a business must notify users about proposed changes to the TOS and obtain their consent.

In legal terms its called illusory contract and unenforceable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_v._U.S._District_Court_ex_rel_Talk_America

Now they are allowed to revoke access to new product versions but they can't revoke access to the product you had a legal binding TOS with if its not a online service that cost extra money for the provider to maintain.

And they will try of course to cover there ass by stating in the TOS that the user agrees to waive consumer rights to this but again in certain countries like mine that is not allowed.

So by intentionally sabotaging a product that the consumer has a valid license to in order to push another version without approval or notifying the license holder with a modified TOS can be taken to court.

But who is going to do that realistically?

[Sifer2]

I have said for a while now that something had better change fast with Consumer rights laws regarding Digital Products, and Forced Updating of them. Otherwise we are really are entering dark times of "you will own nothing" meme. This is because it's already rumored the next Playstation/Xbox are going to remove Disc drives. And lot's of retailers saying they will no longer sell DVD's. There is push to make everything you buy entirely Digital. Which might be fine if we as consumers had any rights at all under the law. But sadly it seems we really do not when it comes to Digital products. They can out right remove content you payed for an you get nothing.

This situation with Capcom just goes to show how fast a good thing can go south without any Consumer rights protections. It just takes one out of touch executive to decide to do something stupid like this, and suddenly your looking at your entire catalog of Capcom games no longer working on your Steam Deck or being able to use mods. Refund? You don't get one.

[Castyles]

DRM is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cancer.

It doesn't stop ♥♥♥♥ because pirates always manage to fix everything and be merry, either way.

Plus it can kill performance i.e stability i.e fun factor for the user who acquired a legit copy.

Not to mention the fact that it can behave like spyware/malware, just like anti-cheats.

On the mods subject, even Microsoft began to allow them on Xbox with the likes of Skyrim and Fallout 4 and they were REALLY against the idea. And you could mod Unreal Tournament 3, on the Playstation 3, for example, since AGES, without any issues. Sony just ignored it.

Meanwhile you got hacks like Capcom, who wants to ban everything and they don't even have the guts to come up front and tell the truth about it. That "think of the children" argument is a mere travesty.

The truth is that they just want to force their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ products, instead of letting modders fix them - for FREE, mind you - because they may get a bad rep from the shareholders/stockholders and force their disgusting predatory practices down everyone's throats, instead of providing a healthy environment with stuff that actually warrants a purchase.

Little do they know that Nexus already started banning Street Fighter 6 mods that entered the realm of piracy i.e a complete copy of DLC costumes. So they're not losing ♥♥♥♥, money-wise.

It's just malice, envy and pure spite. Absolutely disgusting.

[miakisfan]

Originalmente postado por SlowMango:

Originalmente postado por miakisfan:

Would you prefer someone else own your house or car ...or would you drag people to court if they were doing illegal things with your house or car?

The same principle applies here with games. There's a reason laws exist to protect them and their games just like it is supposed to protect you from the same.

You think they are breaking the law with DRM but you don't think it should be illegal to mod a game without permission? What fantasy world are you people living in?

As long as you aren't distributing the modded game, it shouldn't be illegal. Modding games to fit a player's needs when it doesn't affect anyone else(like cosmetics, UI changes, etc.) shouldn't be illegal in the slightest.

Let's not forget that people also make mods to adjust color for color blindness or adjust audio for those hard of hearing.

I'd agree with you except for one caveat ... you need the permission of the developer/publisher to mod it unless the developer/publisher has made it quite clear that they don't mind it. The Fallout games are a perfect example.

Once again I bring up using your own personal property as a reference. Would you allow someone else to mod your house or car without your permission? How about your PC?

You guys treat games like they are nothing compared to houses and cars yet they are still someone else's property and should be treated with respect ... just like yours.

Side note: Personally after seeing how much better a number of games have gotten due to modding I will say I even tend to agree that modding at this point is a necessity. I still believe you should be given permission or it be outright allowed by the developer/publisher though. There needs to be a give and take.

[miakisfan]

Originalmente postado por Castyles:

DRM is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cancer.

It doesn't stop ♥♥♥♥ because pirates always manage to fix everything and be merry, either way.

Plus it can kill performance i.e stability i.e fun factor for the user who acquired a legit copy.

Not to mention the fact that it can behave like spyware/malware, just like anti-cheats.

On the mods subject, even Microsoft began to allow them on Xbox with the likes of Skyrim and Fallout 4 and they were REALLY against the idea. And you could mod Unreal Tournament 3, on the Playstation 3, for example, since AGES, without any issues. Sony just ignored it.

Meanwhile you got hacks like Capcom, who wants to ban everything and they don't even have the guts to come up front and tell the truth about it. That "think of the children" argument is a mere travesty.

The truth is that they just want to force their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ products, instead of letting modders fix them - for FREE, mind you - because they may get a bad rep from the shareholders/stockholders and force their disgusting predatory practices down everyone's throats, instead of providing a healthy environment with stuff that actually warrants a purchase.

Little do they know that Nexus already started banning Street Fighter 6 mods that entered the realm of piracy i.e a complete copy of DLC costumes. So they're not losing ♥♥♥♥, money-wise.

It's just malice, envy and pure spite. Absolutely disgusting.

Until I see a performance issue in any of my games with DRM in them I will consider this B.S.

As for the pirates ... unless YOU are a pirate and have personal knowledge you can pass along that will make me believe any of that fixing games B.S. beyond the shadow of a doubt I wouldn't buy that for a dollar.

I still stand by my comments that I will NEVER join the anti-DRM cause until it is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that game piracy has ended once and for all.

[__++__==]

Originalmente postado por Nx Machina:

As Capcom owns the game, the ip etc they can freely add whatever they wish, without the need to consult with the end user.

We can still talk about it.,

[Paratech2008]

Stop buying Capcom games and let them lose money. Money is the only thing they care about.

[D. Flame]

Originalmente postado por Paratech2008:

Stop buying Capcom games and let them lose money. Money is the only thing they care about.

Capcom clearly hates money.

Every time they do something that is met with even a modicum of success or praise, they go out of their way to ruin it, stop it, or they just ignore the property for years.

[Axe]

'We' usually means somebody else.

[Axe]

Originalmente postado por Paratech2008:

Stop buying Capcom games and let them lose money. Money is the only thing they care about.

Indeed. It makes the world go around so why 'customers' bother moaning about this stuff just amazes me. It's like those who thinks a petition actually means something.