Proposed solution for Win 7 users

[mitropower]

First a disclaimer, I am not a Win7 user. Not a Win user to begin with. But I used to be a product manager and this looks like a problem of that type.

I do understand that about 2% of Steam users, roughy 500k acive users, are Win7 users and if they have not upgraded by now, they have no intention of doing so. And that its not really our place, or Valve's place, to force them into upgrading, no matter how easy or not it is. Their reaction is natural here, and understandable, since this decision precludes them from using Win7 supported games that they have perpetual licenses for. Chances of classact or not, I think this can easily and elegantly be solved and all issues avoided:


1. Take whatever version is last created this year and store it, label it "Win 7 version" or whatever.
2. Disable auto-updater in it, locking it in
3. When setup.exe is run on Win7, because Steam Client is downloaded, not bundled with setup.exe, warn users its unsupported and will work as-is, without any warranties and then serve them the above package.
4. For everyone esle, download latest Linux/Mac/Win package with auto-updater, as it is now.

The crux of the problem is not Valve, it is that embedded browser will no longer be supported on Win7, but in reality that should only really affect the store front, hubs, community pages, etc, which serves downloaded content from Steam web servers. The core of the Steam client, meaning library and download/launch code, does not really depend on the browser and is generated locally in the client based on the user profile. There is nothing really stopping it from working in the future.

So, Win7 users will lose web pages in the client, but they will be able to download and play Win7 games. They can always purchase or participate in community via steampowered website. The changes required in setup code to make this happen are minor and non-breaking for everyone else. Seems like a worthwhile effort to keep the 2% on the platform.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Great idea but at the end of the day Steam has no obligation to do it. They're done with Windows 7. It is what it is.

[Ogami]

The problem is that users would not be able to download games.
The server backend of Steam also runs on Chromium, meaning they regularly have to update it to the newest version for security reasons.
It would not take long till this "legacy Win 7" client could no longer communicate with those distribution servers because of outdated software and then they are REALLY locked out of all their games.

Steam would need to clone their entire data and distribution servers to run on a compatible version with that Win 7 Legacy client.
And i HIGHLY doubt they would ever entertain those costs for less then 1% of their userbase.

[mitropower]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Great idea but at the end of the day Steam has no obligation to do it. They're done with Windows 7. It is what it is.

Whether or not Valve has that obligation is more a legal question, and few people here are lawyers. I have no doubt that someone with enough cash and boredom will try to challenge this, especially in the USA where its a national pass time. Maybe Valve has it in the courts, but David vs Goliath type of lawsuits are always bad PR business deflecting effort and resources from more important things. In my work experience, its always better to just mitigate this risk straight up. Give them what they want.

[flobefall]

Originally posted by mitropower:

1. Take whatever version is last created this year and store it, label it "Win 7 version" or whatever.
2. Disable auto-updater in it, locking it in
3. When setup.exe is run on Win7, because Steam Client is downloaded, not bundled with setup.exe, warn users its unsupported and will work as-is, without any warranties and then serve them the above package.
4. For everyone esle, download latest Linux/Mac/Win package with auto-updater, as it is now.

5. Bring the surprised Pikachu-meme when you discover you can't access the store nor even download your games anymore.

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by mitropower:

I have no doubt that someone with enough cash and boredom will try to challenge this

That's what people said in the months before support for XP/Vista got dropped in 2019, but nothing happened.

I seriously doubt anyone is going to challenge things in courts. Would be good if people did, but I doubt it'll happen.

[mitropower]

Originally posted by Ogami:

The problem is that users would not be able to download games.
The server backend of Steam also runs on Chromium, meaning they regularly have to update it to the newest version for security reasons.
It would not take long till this "legacy Win 7" client could no longer communicate with those distribution servers because of outdated software and then they are REALLY locked out of all their games.

Backends do not run on chromiums, and even if they did, the client communicates with backend (for the purpose of downloading games) over something called the "steampipe" protocol, so downloading binaries is a non-issue regardless of the client version. Steampipe is a modification of a standard http protocol. As such, no browser supports it directly anyway, its a feature baked into steam client

[mitropower]

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam/SteamPipe

Your concerns would only really be applicable if Valve decides to retire SteamPipe. Then the locked client from my post will become really unusable. I dont see that happening though. For many reasons that led to the creation of SteamPipe in the first place.

[( ( < < <🤖> > > ) )]

so are you saying that win 7 would only have access to old games
and would still need win 10/11 to get new games

[[N]ebsun]

Originally posted by mitropower:

The crux of the problem is not Valve, it is that embedded browser will no longer be supported on Win7, but in reality that should only really affect the store front, hubs, community pages, etc, which serves downloaded content from Steam web servers. The core of the Steam client, meaning library and download/launch code, does not really depend on the browser and is generated locally in the client based on the user profile. There is nothing really stopping it from working in the future.

So, Win7 users will lose web pages in the client, but they will be able to download and play Win7 games. They can always purchase or participate in community via steampowered website. The changes required in setup code to make this happen are minor and non-breaking for everyone else. Seems like a worthwhile effort to keep the 2% on the platform.

The other issue will be that any vulnerabilities that exist on that version (and there will definitely be some that are yet to be found) will never ever be patched out... then when someone's PC gets affected by it, it will be Valve's issue since it's their released software causing the vulnerability.

They really should have separated out the core functionality of Steam, so the store, launcher, social aspects, etc were separate modules - then if someone chooses not to use some of the modules which require an embedded browser, they can simply use the core without the additional features.

[mitropower]

Originally posted by ragefifty50:

so are you saying that win 7 would only have access to old games
and would still need win 10/11 to get new games

Pretty much, though they are all now using steampipe to deliver. They cannot play the win10+ games now anyway as they are not supported by game devs on Win 7. Its the price they pay for not upgrading. Its the price I am daily paying as a Linux gamer since very few games are supported for Linux by devs, and those that do work on Steam are mostly indirectly supported by Valve itself because of SteamDeck. But if the game does not work, it does not work, I have no claim to make.

I am not saying we should bend backwards for them, but they do have a dangerous claim that they own the perpetual license to Win7 supported games which they bought for Windows 7 and that Valve is infringing on their ability to use them. Win7 is no longer suported, but the license to use it is perpetual and you can still download Win7 ISO image from MS directly. Again, its a legal matter, and I am not an expert in law, all I am saying is that sometimes its better to just play it safe. I am sure MS is not too thrilled having Win7 ISOs on their system, either, but they still keep it.

[mitropower]

Originally posted by Nebsun:

The other issue will be that any vulnerabilities that exist on that version (and there will definitely be some that are yet to be found) will never ever be patched out... then when someone's PC gets affected by it, it will be Valve's issue since it's their released software causing the vulnerability.

They really should have separated out the core functionality of Steam, so the store, launcher, social aspects, etc were separate modules - then if someone chooses not to use some of the modules which require an embedded browser, they can simply use the core without the additional features.

They already are separate. Embedded browsers do not natively support steampipe protocol, that code is directly part of the steamclient code.
When you look at your library tab, the list of games on left is locally generated, the content on the right is partially local partially remote, with the launch button actually invoking the steam:// moniker to launch the game via steamclient core code. Tech wise this is doable.

As for vulnerabilities, thats what the disclaimer is for. MS is not giving them any security patches anyway. Its a difficult and based life, living on Win7. Wouldn't want it for my kids :)

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by mitropower:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Great idea but at the end of the day Steam has no obligation to do it. They're done with Windows 7. It is what it is.

Whether or not Valve has that obligation is more a legal question, and few people here are lawyers. I have no doubt that someone with enough cash and boredom will try to challenge this, especially in the USA where its a national pass time. Maybe Valve has it in the courts, but David vs Goliath type of lawsuits are always bad PR business deflecting effort and resources from more important things. In my work experience, its always better to just mitigate this risk straight up. Give them what they want.

Why would they have any obligation when Microsoft discontinued support for Windows 7 over 3 years ago? If the people that made the thing are done with it then that definitely frees Steam or any other platform from having to deal with it any longer.

The people that have "enough cash" aren't going to waste their time, they all already have Windows 10/Windows 11 and most likely stopped using Windows 7 years ago. Do you know how much it costs to retain a lawyer, a good lawyer, for something like you're proposing? Think about it man if you have money like that you're not worried about Windows 7.

There are litigious people everywhere, kind of odd to make it seem like an American thing. For what it's worth, the majority of folks I've seen mentioning lawsuits and class actions here aren't even from America.

This isn't a David & Goliath situation. Windows 7 is an old, outdated operating system. The people that made it were done with it some years ago. Aside from that, Steam informs you and me and everyone else in the terms of service that system requirements are subject to change. We have all agreed to those terms, so realistically there's not much basis for a lawsuit. Also, the folks clinging to Windows 7 most likely aren't buying newer, pricier video games so what real risk is there? Virtually none tbh. The only risk they have is that a bunch of Windows 7 goobers will spam the forums in impotent rage.

[lailaamell]

Originally posted by ragefifty50:

so are you saying that win 7 would only have access to old games
and would still need win 10/11 to get new games

You dont need win 10 11 for new games tho

[( ( < < <🤖> > > ) )]

Originally posted by lailaamell95:

Originally posted by ragefifty50:

so are you saying that win 7 would only have access to old games
and would still need win 10/11 to get new games

You dont need win 10 11 for new games tho

so your saying all future games will work on window 7/8

[mitropower]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Why would they have any obligation when Microsoft discontinued support for Windows 7 over 3 years ago? If the people that made the thing are done with it then that definitely frees Steam or any other platform from having to deal with it any longer.

The people that have "enough cash" aren't going to waste their time, they all already have Windows 10/Windows 11 and most likely stopped using Windows 7 years ago. Do you know how much it costs to retain a lawyer, a good lawyer, for something like you're proposing? Think about it man if you have money like that you're not worried about Windows 7.

There are litigious people everywhere, kind of odd to make it seem like an American thing. For what it's worth, the majority of folks I've seen mentioning lawsuits and class actions here aren't even from America.

This isn't a David & Goliath situation. Windows 7 is an old, outdated operating system. The people that made it were done with it some years ago. Aside from that, Steam informs you and me and everyone else in the terms of service that system requirements are subject to change. We have all agreed to those terms, so realistically there's not much basis for a lawsuit. Also, the folks clinging to Windows 7 most likely aren't buying newer, pricier video games so what real risk is there? Virtually none tbh. The only risk they have is that a bunch of Windows 7 goobers will spam the forums in impotent rage.

Ok, to address your comments:

First you'll be surprised what people do with their cash. Staying on Win7 is not based on rational thinking, its a form of resistance.

I think only USA has class act type of lawsuits which are so easy to start. I am currently in Germany for example, for a short work related stint, and I could sue Valve, but only in my own name and the ruling of the court does not set a precedent. I also agreed to go through arbitration with Valve (as we all did) and for example I cannot void that here, I would have to go through the motions before I can reach the court.

MS discontinued support for Win7, it still has to honor the perpetual license it sold. You can still download the ISO image via Tech Bench and use your key to install it. They made it very difficult by removing links from all public sites, but they are still required to host it and deliver it on demand. You just wont get any support for it, and I mean nothing. And thats fine.

Valve can change its own T&C, and that is fine. It cannot however modify 3rd party licenses simply because they were purchased through their store front. Much like a supermarket cannot dictate what you will do with a carton of milk you purchased and cannot really restrict you from using your milk because you came with a 1967 chevy. So that does give some credence to their claim, EULAs are game based, not store based.

And yes, Win7 is old and obsolete (if you ask me the entire Windows is old and obsolete), but that is not the point.