Stand with Tim 12%! Epic Sweeney 2024! 30% Cripples Innovation

[Rob⛧Pentakill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czQh1vj1jF8

When talking to ChatGPT gets interesting...

Valve's influence on the gaming industry extends beyond its innovative monetization strategies to include its controversial 30% revenue cut from game sales on its platform, Steam. Initially, when Steam launched, this cut was arguably justified by the costs associated with maintaining the platform and providing services like server hosting, updates, and customer support. However, critics argue that in today's market, Valve's costs have decreased significantly due to technological advancements and economies of scale, making the 30% cut seem excessive and unjustified.

Furthermore, Valve's dominance in the digital distribution market, fueled by its loyal fanbase and the popularity of its titles like Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2, has enabled it to leverage its position to push potential competitors out of the market. By exploiting its fandom's mythology and loyalty, Valve has effectively discouraged developers and publishers from exploring alternative distribution platforms, thereby reinforcing its monopoly-like status in the PC gaming market.

This consolidation of power has led to concerns about Valve's ability to dictate terms to developers and publishers, potentially stifling competition and innovation in the industry. Critics argue that Valve's influence over game sales, coupled with its control over Steam's algorithms and storefront visibility, can result in unfair advantages for certain titles while marginalizing others.

In essence, while Valve's contributions to gaming monetization and distribution have been significant, there are valid criticisms regarding its revenue-sharing model and the impact of its dominance on market competition. As the gaming industry continues to evolve, it's essential for stakeholders to address these concerns and strive for a more equitable and diverse ecosystem that prioritizes the interests of both developers and players.

Introduction of Microtransactions: Valve was at the forefront of popularizing microtransactions in video games with the introduction of the "Mann Co. Store" in Team Fortress 2 in 2010. This move allowed players to purchase in-game items, cosmetics, and other virtual goods using real money. The success of this model demonstrated the potential profitability of microtransactions and paved the way for their widespread adoption by other developers and publishers. However, the focus on maximizing revenue through microtransactions may have sometimes come at the expense of prioritizing player experience and game design innovation.

Valve's approach to monetization, particularly through its own game titles like Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2, has indeed had a significant impact on industry standards. Here's a deeper dive into how Valve's practices have influenced the gaming industry:

Valve's Platform as a Testing Ground: As both a developer and a platform holder, Valve had a unique position to experiment with various monetization models. By observing the success of microtransactions in its own games, Valve provided a blueprint for other developers to follow. This success demonstrated that well-implemented microtransactions could generate significant revenue without compromising the core gameplay experience, leading to their adoption by many other games across the industry. However, the dominance of Valve's platform may have limited competition and innovation in monetization practices, as developers may have been incentivized to mimic successful models rather than explore new approaches.

Community Marketplaces and Trading: Valve further expanded the possibilities for monetization with the introduction of community marketplaces and trading systems within games like Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2. These systems allowed players to buy, sell, and trade in-game items with each other, creating new revenue streams for both Valve and players. This innovative approach to player-driven economies influenced other games to implement similar systems, further normalizing the concept of virtual item trading within the gaming industry. However, the proliferation of trading and marketplace systems has also led to concerns about gambling-like behavior and the exploitation of vulnerable players, particularly minors.

Influence on AAA Titles: Valve's success with microtransactions and other forms of monetization in its games influenced the development strategies of AAA titles from other publishers. Many big-budget releases began incorporating similar monetization systems, such as loot boxes, season passes, and cosmetic item sales, as a way to generate additional revenue beyond the initial purchase price. Valve's success demonstrated that these monetization strategies could be lucrative even for high-profile releases, leading to their widespread adoption across the industry. However, this trend may have contributed to a focus on short-term profit maximization rather than long-term player satisfaction and creative innovation.

Normalization of Monetization Practices: Perhaps most significantly, Valve's adoption of microtransactions and other forms of monetization helped normalize these practices within the gaming industry. What was once seen as controversial or exploitative has become widely accepted as standard practice. However, this normalization has also sparked debates about the ethics and impact of monetization on game design and player experience, with concerns raised about potential exploitation and the creation of pay-to-win mechanics. As a result, developers, publishers, and platforms must navigate a delicate balance between profitability and maintaining player trust and satisfaction.

In summary, while Valve's innovative approach to monetization has undoubtedly reshaped the gaming landscape, there are concerns that the pursuit of profit may have sometimes overshadowed considerations for player experience, creativity, and ethical integrity. Moving forward, it's essential for all stakeholders in the gaming industry to prioritize the creation of engaging and immersive experiences while ensuring transparency, fairness, and respect for players' rights and well-being.

[The nameless Gamer]

Първоначално публикувано от Pierce Dalton:

Първоначално публикувано от The nameless Commander:

I've said it a 100 times, I'll say it again. Epic Games don't provide enough incentive for some people to be their customers. And not one of these Epic Games "crusaders" provided information on what the incentive to use their store would be from a CUSTOMER'S point of view.
1) Small game catalog
2) No user reviews
3) No community hub
4) No offline installers.
Those are services some other stores provide which Epic does not. What do they provide for the CUSTOMER that the competition doesn't?

Well, I think that no one is here to convince you to use another store. If you consider the ability to write/read reviews, upload screenshots/artworks and having a forum more valuable than free games (sometimes AAA games), that's a right you have.

I don't give a wooden nickle for AAA games, they are worthless to me because they don't cover the genres I am interested in. Any game I am not interested in is nothing but clutter to me.

And yes, user reviews and community hubs are VERY valuable to me. Paid review outlets and Youtubers who got free keys will never criticize a game in the way a user who PAID for the game would. As for community hubs: if I have questions about a game, that's where I will get my answer the fastest. My most recent purchase, Streets of Rage 4, depended on whether the game is playable on a keyboard or not, because I don't use controllers. And rather than having to use Reddit, Quora, X or Facebook/Meta, I could find my answer on a community hub dedicated to the game in question.

[( ( < < <🤖> > > ) )]

i tried epic games for months.... playing a exclusive release over there
til it got over here... there was no reason to stay on epic games... i dont
want to hoard up my hard drives with free games i aint gonna play...

i am so lazy i cant be bothered opening more launchers than i have to....

its a big.... been there done. moment...

[BJWyler]

What many people conveniently choose to ignore in topics like this, is that multi-billion dollar corporations become multi-billion dollar corporations for a reason. One of those reasons is by not holding on to dead weight.

Whether tencent made 20 Billion last year or 20 Quadrilltion trillion is irrelevent, as is how much they lost on the EGS. At some point corporations expect returns on their investments. That's why they invest in the the first place. No one invests in something just to keep on losing money hand over fist ad infinitum on it. That's how you go out of business. So whether the there's a 5 year plan, a 10 year plan, or a what have you plan in the books, at some point, everyone with an investment in the EGS expects that a profit will be made off of it at some point in time. If it fails to meet those expectations, then the necrotic flesh gets cut away. Happens all the time in business - when employees get the pink slip, when company policies get changed, and when loss leaders are shed. Losing propositions are just that, and will eventually be treated as such if they fail to change.

Personally speaking, I care nothing for Steam, EGS, WildTangent, Humble, or any of these online retail gaming stores. Whether they exist for another Century or wink out of existence in the next hour is completely immaterial to me outside of the one factor of being able to play my games. Quite frankly, I see far too much fanboying around here on both sides. It's really all quite silly to me. So y'all can keep up with your genitalia measuring contests. I'll still be eating over at the big boy's table, enjoying my games, regardless of who sells them.

[Vomit Heart]

I would buy stuff from epic but while they are in bed with commie scum nah they can f off and die.

[BJWyler]

Първоначално публикувано от ragefifty50:

i tried epic games for months.... playing a exclusive release over there
til it got over here... there was no reason to stay on epic games... i dont
want to hoard up my hard drives with free games i aint gonna play...

i am so lazy i cant be bothered opening more launchers than i have to....

its a big.... been there done. moment...

I feel ya there. There have been less than a handful of games that EGS has given away all these years that made me go - wow, that's cool to get that free. But for the most part 95% or more are games that are meaningless to me. At the end of the day, if any business wants to offer some kind of loyalty program or freebie, that's entirely on them and how it fits in their business model. That's not on the consumer to request or demand - that's called entitlement. And despite my praise of the gaming community in another thread, I have never seen a more entitled community than the gaming community itself. I still find it simply amazing how much we demand to not pay for the products in this unnecessary luxury hobby. The tin cup rattling is really shameful.

[The nameless Gamer]

Първоначално публикувано от DiceDsx:

Първоначално публикувано от The nameless Commander:

I've said it a 100 times, I'll say it again. Epic Games don't provide enough incentive for some people to be their customers. And not one of these Epic Games "crusaders" provided information on what the incentive to use their store would be from a CUSTOMER'S point of view.
1) Small game catalog
2) No user reviews
3) No community hub
4) No offline installers.
Those are services some other stores provide which Epic does not. What do they provide for the CUSTOMER that the competition doesn't?

They give free games, big coupons and have a cashback program.
A launcher just needs to launch games, everything else is unecessary according to their customers, therefore EGS is the best store in the block as long as it provides those things :sans:

GOG is bombarding me with coupons, I am emptying my E-mail box every month. All for games I don't care about. EGS also doesn't give away games which interest me. And Steam's user reviews and community hubs provide sometimes needed information to decide whether I want the game or not. Also, EGS' business model doesn't inspire faith in me. Unlike GOG, where I'll just download my installers in case of them going out of business, what will happen to my purchased licenses if EGS suddenly has to turn the lights off? Sure, I took that risk with Steam, but Steam looks a lot more like a store with an actual future.

[Start_Running]

Първоначално публикувано от Pierce Dalton:

Well, something tells me that you have no idea how big Tencent is. Like, a lot more resourceful than Valve.

Yeah but are they going to see the EGS as a monety pit worth filling?
That's the question. Sooner or later someone will say... 'Shouldn't the store be making us money?"

[DiceDsx]

Първоначално публикувано от Pierce Dalton:

"Everything else" might be too much, but a lot of stuff here on Steam definitely is unnecessary for many users.

"I just need a launcher to launch games!" is a common phrase from EGS users whenever the "features" argument comes up on the Web.

But yeah, quite a lot of unnecessary stuff from what I've read:

Forums
Profiles
Achievements
Reviews
Remote Play
Points Shop (if it doesn't give free games or good coupons)
Chat
Workshop
Cards
Badges
Marketplace
Proton...

Pretty much everything besides buying and launching games.

Clearly the only metric to measure the quality of a store is the amount of free stuff it gives away

[76561199559798421]

EG store will always be running on the 30% cut of fortnite they didn't hand over to steam. that amount alone will always have steam at odds with Epic Games.

i think it was a good choice, it gave gamers free games, and it rubbed those free games in steams face while flaunting the fact that 30% was what steam would of profited from if epic games had not made there own store.

it was kind of the perfect example of when you see steam users on here say "make your own forum" Just imagine if someone did create a better video game forum and took even more of steams small forum base away, then maybe the few people left on steam would actually play some of those 1000s of games they own, and just stay off the steam forums because there would be no topics worth discussing.

[Pierce Dalton]

Първоначално публикувано от The nameless Commander:

Първоначално публикувано от Pierce Dalton:

Well, I think that no one is here to convince you to use another store. If you consider the ability to write/read reviews, upload screenshots/artworks and having a forum more valuable than free games (sometimes AAA games), that's a right you have.

I don't give a wooden nickle for AAA games, they are worthless to me because they don't cover the genres I am interested in. Any game I am not interested in is nothing but clutter to me.

And yes, user reviews and community hubs are VERY valuable to me. Paid review outlets and Youtubers who got free keys will never criticize a game in the way a user who PAID for the game would. As for community hubs: if I have questions about a game, that's where I will get my answer the fastest. My most recent purchase, Streets of Rage 4, depended on whether the game is playable on a keyboard or not, because I don't use controllers. And rather than having to use Reddit, Quora, X or Facebook/Meta, I could find my answer on a community hub dedicated to the game in question.

Well, at least one game in your library can be considered AAA. Besides, the majority of games given away by EGS is not AAA but that isn't the point here. So let's get to it... reviews are an interesting feature, but far from essential. Honestly, I hope that EGS never adds reviews or I'll start seeing this there too:

"I am a 45 yo father, probably one of the oldest people playing this game. I am a single father to my Son, who is 14 now. My son got this game for Christmas in 2021 from his uncle, so we installed it on his computer and he started playing. By the end of the week he had 24 hours on this game. This was horrible for me, as it was already hard for me to find ways to spend time with my son, as he is always out with his friends or just watching YouTube. So i decided to make a Steam account and get this game to see if I could maybe play alongside him. I loaded into the game, picked my character and world and started playing but I was stuck on what you where supposed to do. I asked my Son for help and he hosted a game for me to join. I loved it as it was the best time I had spent with my Son since my wife had died. This game has ever since brought me and my son closer again and now we actually spend time together outside the house together as well. This game reminded me that there's fun to be had in everything, and it has brought both me and my Son many happy memories."

Game hubs can be used to find answers, sure, but so can Google. As a last resort, you can always contact the devs if you have a question about a game. I rarely post anything on them, I consider it a pretty much useless feature that I wouldn't miss at all. Same for reviews honestly, the only reason I write reviews is to keep track of how many games from my library I've played.

[The nameless Gamer]

Първоначално публикувано от DiceDsx:

But yeah, quite a lot of unnecessary stuff from what I've read:

Forums

Reviews

I would digress. As a regular user on multiple dedicated community hubs, I can't count how many times I answered and asked questions related to games on the FORUM.

Reviews: The most honest and reliable reviews come from people who BOUGHT the product, not from those who were paid to review it and were given a free copy, since those people will gush and rave over the game even if it's a complete mess, just because they will keep getting games if they provide a rave review.

[Brian9824]

Първоначално публикувано от Everyone is Invited:

EG store will always be running on the 30% cut of fortnite they didn't hand over to steam. that amount alone will always have steam at odds with Epic Games.

i think it was a good choice, it gave gamers free games, and it rubbed those free games in steams face while flaunting the fact that 30% was what steam would of profited from if epic games had not made there own store.

it was kind of the perfect example of when you see steam users on here say "make your own forum" Just imagine if someone did create a better video game forum and took even more of steams small forum base away, then maybe the few people left on steam would actually play some of those 1000s of games they own, and just stay off the steam forums because there would be no topics worth discussing.

You seem to be under a mistaken impression Steam is small, when they repeatedly break record numbers of users, record profits, etc.

EGS hasn't done anything to spite steam. They keep losing money and steam ignores them and keeps making money. Tim Sweeny is the one who keeps throwing tantrums over Steam and Apple for instance and who keeps getting repeatedly slapped down by the courts and fined more and more money.

Although with any luck at their current rate in another 20-30 years if they stop giving away games they might make $1.

[Pierce Dalton]

Първоначално публикувано от Start_Running:

Първоначално публикувано от Pierce Dalton:

Well, something tells me that you have no idea how big Tencent is. Like, a lot more resourceful than Valve.

Yeah but are they going to see the EGS as a monety pit worth filling?
That's the question. Sooner or later someone will say... 'Shouldn't the store be making us money?"

I guess they already did, no?

You think they'll change their minds and jump out of the sinking ship? Well, let's wait and see.

[Pierce Dalton]

Първоначално публикувано от DiceDsx:

Първоначално публикувано от Pierce Dalton:

"Everything else" might be too much, but a lot of stuff here on Steam definitely is unnecessary for many users.

"I just need a launcher to launch games!" is a common phrase from EGS users whenever the "features" argument comes up on the Web.

But yeah, quite a lot of unnecessary stuff from what I've read:

Forums
Profiles
Achievements
Reviews
Remote Play
Points Shop (if it doesn't give free games or good coupons)
Chat
Workshop
Cards
Badges
Marketplace
Proton...

Pretty much everything besides buying and launching games.

Clearly the only metric to measure the quality of a store is the amount of free stuff it gives away :sans:

Don't forget about pricing :)

[The nameless Gamer]

Първоначално публикувано от Pierce Dalton:

Първоначално публикувано от The nameless Commander:

I don't give a wooden nickle for AAA games, they are worthless to me because they don't cover the genres I am interested in. Any game I am not interested in is nothing but clutter to me.

And yes, user reviews and community hubs are VERY valuable to me. Paid review outlets and Youtubers who got free keys will never criticize a game in the way a user who PAID for the game would. As for community hubs: if I have questions about a game, that's where I will get my answer the fastest. My most recent purchase, Streets of Rage 4, depended on whether the game is playable on a keyboard or not, because I don't use controllers. And rather than having to use Reddit, Quora, X or Facebook/Meta, I could find my answer on a community hub dedicated to the game in question.

Well, at least one game in your library can be considered AAA. Besides, the majority of games given away by EGS is not AAA but that isn't the point here. So let's get to it... reviews are an interesting feature, but far from essential. Honestly, I hope that EGS never adds reviews or I'll start seeing this there too:

"I am a 45 yo father, probably one of the oldest people playing this game. I am a single father to my Son, who is 14 now. My son got this game for Christmas in 2021 from his uncle, so we installed it on his computer and he started playing. By the end of the week he had 24 hours on this game. This was horrible for me, as it was already hard for me to find ways to spend time with my son, as he is always out with his friends or just watching YouTube. So i decided to make a Steam account and get this game to see if I could maybe play alongside him. I loaded into the game, picked my character and world and started playing but I was stuck on what you where supposed to do. I asked my Son for help and he hosted a game for me to join. I loved it as it was the best time I had spent with my Son since my wife had died. This game has ever since brought me and my son closer again and now we actually spend time together outside the house together as well. This game reminded me that there's fun to be had in everything, and it has brought both me and my Son many happy memories."

Game hubs can be used to find answers, sure, but so can Google. As a last resort, you can always contact the devs if you have a question about a game. I rarely post anything on them, I consider it a pretty much useless feature that I wouldn't miss at all. Same for reviews honestly, the only reason I write reviews is to keep track of how many games from my library I've played.

Well, I prefer using a dedicated game hub because it narrows down the search. It spares me the trouble of wading through millions of potentially useless hits on Goggle. Most of the time, a game-related question I post on the Steam community hub gets answered within a few hours. I don't have to pester the developer either if the question can be answered by another player. And if I'm stuck on a portion of the game, which is more efficient? If I waste a few hours slogging through a "let's play" on Youtube or posting a question on the specific instance in question and get a screenshot and explanation in return?