Refund Policy says "No refund for more than two hours of playtime" WTH?

[OuttaSpace]

Played Planet Zoo for about 11 hours total. Had multiple crashes and just decided I didn't like the game. Tried to get a refund but Steam's policy of 2 hours playtime total, negated my request to get one. I'm not happy with the product within 3 days of having it and Steam won't give me a refund. Horrible business practice. I should be able to get a refund for this game within a more reasonable playtime restriction. Planet Zoo is not some game you conquer within a couple of hours. Highly disappointed at Steam Support. Out $58.99. Thanks Steam!

[Boblin the Goblin]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

If that's part of an agreement

I never once said that they did. The point is that they one-sidedly changed the terms after the sale.

Which isn't comparable to Steam since you agree that the terms can/will be updated/change as time goes on.

Which is completely legal within reason.

[Brian9824]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

If that's part of an agreement

I never once said that they did. The point is that they one-sidedly changed the terms after the sale.

Actually its two sided. You acknowledged and accepted their ability to make changes when you first agreed and gave them permission to do so. That makes it legal.

Again, name one game store that doesn't have that identical clause in it. Heck, pretty much any business with a TOS is going to have that clause. Its a standard part of every TOS because its been so well litigated and defined over the years.

[D. Flame]

And like I said, with any physical good, that would be immediately shutdown as extortion, but software companies get a free pass, partially because they add a clause to the terms saying you can't challenge it in court, or at least not in a class action suit.

[Boblin the Goblin]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

And like I said, with any physical good, that would be immediately shutdown as extortion, but software companies get a free pass, partially because they add a clause to the terms saying you can't challenge it in court, or at least not in a class action suit.

No, the clause says that they will/can update the terms as they see as needed.

The law says they have to tell you of these changes and have you accept them.

If you do not initially sign a ToS with that clause, they cannot force you to sign one under threat.

You literally do sign such agreements with physical goods. As I hunted at in the part of my comment you just happened to remove.

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Otherwise having a mortgage or most loans would be extortion.

[D. Flame]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

If you do not initially sign a ToS with that clause, they cannot force you to sign one under threat.

Except that is literally what they are doing.

Demand: Agree to the new terms.

Threat if you don't agree: you lose the ability to play the games you already purchased.

[Brian9824]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

And like I said, with any physical good, that would be immediately shutdown as extortion, but software companies get a free pass, partially because they add a clause to the terms saying you can't challenge it in court, or at least not in a class action suit.

Physical goods are not a subscription or online service, you have no connection to the company after the sale, comparing apples to oranges with your example, hence why its a poor one.

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

If you do not initially sign a ToS with that clause, they cannot force you to sign one under threat.

Except that is literally what they are doing.

Demand: Agree to the new terms.

Threat if you don't agree: you lose the ability to play the games you already purchased.

The change to the TOS wouldn't effect you USING your games, especially when the change has to do with refunds. It just means you wouldn't buy anymore games on steam.

Again, you also keep ignoring that as much as you dislike it, it remains perfectly legal and used by literally every similar store.

Ubisoft
Epic
Nintendo
Gog
Blizzard
Microsoft
Sony
etc

All have the identical clause because its literally standard.

[Boblin the Goblin]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

If you do not initially sign a ToS with that clause, they cannot force you to sign one under threat.

Except that is literally what they are doing.

Demand: Agree to the new terms.

Threat if you don't agree: you lose the ability to play the games you already purchased.

You're misrepresenting what is happening.

1: Sign up for account and agree to the ToS that states they can/will be changed as time goes on.

2: ToS gets changed and you get notified of the changes.

3: You are told that to continue using the account, you must agree to the new ToS. Something you already agreed to when creating the account.

If you want to try and make a claim, it's best not to blatantly misrepresent what is happening. After all, it isn't logical to do so.

*Bonus*
In the initial agreement to the ToS, you acknowledge that the purchases are tied to your account which is subject to this agreement.

[D. Flame]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

Except that is literally what they are doing.

Demand: Agree to the new terms.

Threat if you don't agree: you lose the ability to play the games you already purchased.

You're misrepresenting what is happening.

1: Sign up for account and agree to the ToS that states they can/will be changed as time goes on.

2: ToS gets changed and you get notified of the changes.

3: You are told that to continue using the account, you must agree to the new ToS. Something you already agreed to when creating the account.

If you want to try and make a claim, it's best not to blatantly misrepresent what is happening. After all, it isn't logical to do so.

*Bonus*
In the initial agreement to the ToS, you acknowledge that the purchases are tied to your account which is subject to this agreement.

If the contrast was simply that you could not buy any new games, that would be fine. Loosing access to the games you already purchased is the threat. Nothing is being misrepresented here, despite your attempts at damage control.

[Boblin the Goblin]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

You're misrepresenting what is happening.

1: Sign up for account and agree to the ToS that states they can/will be changed as time goes on.

2: ToS gets changed and you get notified of the changes.

3: You are told that to continue using the account, you must agree to the new ToS. Something you already agreed to when creating the account.

If you want to try and make a claim, it's best not to blatantly misrepresent what is happening. After all, it isn't logical to do so.

*Bonus*
In the initial agreement to the ToS, you acknowledge that the purchases are tied to your account which is subject to this agreement.

If the contrast was simply that you could not buy any new games, that would be fine. Loosing access to the games you already purchased is the threat. Nothing is being misrepresented here, despite your attempts at damage control.

Except the fact that you are leaving out the key point that you agree to the ToS changes when you create the account.

Which was absent if your car analogy and has been ignored the whole time. But I'm sure that it was deemed "irrelevant" for convenience.

[Brian9824]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

You're misrepresenting what is happening.

1: Sign up for account and agree to the ToS that states they can/will be changed as time goes on.

2: ToS gets changed and you get notified of the changes.

3: You are told that to continue using the account, you must agree to the new ToS. Something you already agreed to when creating the account.

If you want to try and make a claim, it's best not to blatantly misrepresent what is happening. After all, it isn't logical to do so.

*Bonus*
In the initial agreement to the ToS, you acknowledge that the purchases are tied to your account which is subject to this agreement.

If the contrast was simply that you could not buy any new games, that would be fine. Loosing access to the games you already purchased is the threat. Nothing is being misrepresented here, despite your attempts at damage control.

If such a scenario ever removed your access to your games then you can pursue action in court as you would be able to show damages. However if you make a purchase you agree to the change in terms.

None of the changes impact your ability to play your existing games nor effect access to them. There have also been no refund changes to the TOS that would impact you. So your making up scenarios that don't exist while falsely stating that things are illegal merely because you don't understand them.

Repeating something is illegal doesn't make it so.

[D. Flame]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

If the contrast was simply that you could not buy any new games, that would be fine. Loosing access to the games you already purchased is the threat. Nothing is being misrepresented here, despite your attempts at damage control.

Except the fact that you are leaving out the key point that you agree to the ToS changes when you create the account.

Which was absent if your car analogy and has been ignored the whole time. But I'm sure that it was deemed "irrelevant" for convenience.

False.

Your claim was that they can not one sidedly force an acceptance of the new terms.

My claim was that they basically do by extorting you through threats of loss of access to your own purchased games.

Your attempts at damage control in no way contradict my point or proof.

[Brian9824]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

My claim was that they basically do by extorting you through threats of loss of access to your own purchased games.

Except they literally don't do that, and its not one sided as the bit about the TOS changing has always been there so you already agreed that you are ok with them making changes when you first made your account.

Its not one sided if YOU agreed to let them make changes. That has been universally upheld as being legal as long as they notify you in a "reasonable" timeframe when the TOS changes.

[Boblin the Goblin]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Except the fact that you are leaving out the key point that you agree to the ToS changes when you create the account.

Which was absent if your car analogy and has been ignored the whole time. But I'm sure that it was deemed "irrelevant" for convenience.

False.

Your claim was that they can not one sidedly force an acceptance of the new terms.

My claim was that they basically do by extorting you through threats of loss of access to your own purchased games.

Your attempts at damage control in no way contradict my point or proof.

Except, that wasn't my claim.

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Please explain how "you must accept these new terms to use the store" is a threat of harm against someone, their family, or their property.

What's kinda funny is the games you bought on Steam are not your property. They are a limited license that is sold to you.

[D. Flame]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

What's kinda funny is the games you bought on Steam are not your property. They are a limited license that is sold to you.

Yes, that is the loop hole that they use to get away with what would be considered extortion in any other context.

[Boblin the Goblin]

D. Flame の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

Except, that wasn't my claim.

I already did. I will not repeat myself.

No, you tried to use a car analogy while ignoring key points that I brought up.

Or was that forgotten when my comments were cropped for nitpicking?