Rogue-like games are a waste of time

[M4cR1II3n]

Note: This is an opinion-piece, not a statement of fact.

The whole concept of Rogue-likes being that you do a "run" until you typically die and then restart the whole game from scratch with maybe 1 upgrade from the previous run to make the next run a little easier. However, it just feels to me that the developer is trying to milk as much content as possible out of a very limited concept.

You typically have procedurally generated levels, meaning little actual level design goes into it, and the enemy encounters are also random rather than hand-crafted. What you essentially have is a couple of hours of content stretched out into dozens of hours until you finally beat it. It's akin to just replaying the same checkpoint over and over and consider that adding to the content of the game.

By comparison, take a game like Far Cry 3-6. You have a lot of repetitive activities like clearing out bases and such which can feel pretty copy-pasted - but the bases themselves are hand crafted; not just an algorithm. And after you clear that base; it's yours - actual progress has been made - you are not forced to restart the whole game if you die while trying to take it.

Clearly there are people who enjoy Rogue-likes, but I'm not one of them and avoid them. I've played games like Hades and Prey Mooncrash and none were as good as playing a game with normal progression. Soulslikes are also not really my cup of tea; but at least there is a stronger sense of progression in them since you are not forced to restart the whole game from scratch and they have a pretty decent amount of actual content in them.

But to me, Rogue-likes are really just a time-waste masquerading as being deep with "endless replayability" when they are actually just making you repeat what little content there is until you get tired of it and quit.

[Crazy Tiger]

That's fine, everybody has different preferences. Good thing that there are game types for eveybody

[Gunardian]

we play game for enjoyable moment, like spamming exhaust card with dead brand relic in slay of spire (im playing in android) and feel very powerful afterwards. the game should be entertaining, whatever it is short or it is 100+ hour long. people have their own option.

as a low wage worker and come home after exhausting day, playing rougelite is good for me because i dont need commit for everytime i press the new game button. i have so many situation when i play game and forget the story line after resuming in next weekend or forget what to do in middle sidequest i resume later on.

time is short, that why some people like to play dota2 or CSGO just to have short adrenaline rush. but each game / run is very different.

[Cathulhu]

Technically, every game is a waste of time.

[Gunardian]

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

Technically, every game is a waste of time.

not a waste if we enjoy it.

[Pixel Peeper]

In a Roguelike, you cannot start with any upgrades VS your previous run. It is a defining characteristic that there cannot be permanent vertical progression. Permanent horizontal progression is fine. If a Roguelike had permanent vertical progression, that would make it a Roguelite. Hades is not a Roguelike or a Roguelite.

Yes, run-based games are fantastic specifically because you can implement a limited amount of content (often further inflated via procedural generation) and get more value from going through it multiple times. It also makes it easier to create gameplay by adding different characters or modes. Additional modes and additional characters that each work differently functionally multiply the content, for very little work. It's a much smarter and more efficient way to give us gameplay than brute-forcing duration with content, content and content.

Most importantly, as long as you truly enjoy playing a video game and wouldn't derive significantly greater pleasure from another activity, it's not a waste of time. It's just one of the things you do to make your life better.

A game like Nuclear Throne (again, not a Roguelike at all, but it's run-based) has very, very little content, yet I've played it 400 hours and enjoyed that time greatly.

[✨Saint✨]

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

Technically, every game is a waste of time.

Virtually every kid grows up with games, to learn "practical" things, some games can be very helpful, not a waste of time at all.
The biggest game is life itself, we already waste enough of that.

[Kargor]

Yeah, I just avoid rogue-likes and that's it. Easy.

[failsafe]

Originally posted by M4cR1II3n:

Note: This is an opinion-piece, not a statement of fact.

The whole concept of Rogue-likes being that you do a "run" until you typically die and then restart the whole game from scratch with maybe 1 upgrade from the previous run to make the next run a little easier. However, it just feels to me that the developer is trying to milk as much content as possible out of a very limited concept.

You typically have procedurally generated levels, meaning little actual level design goes into it, and the enemy encounters are also random rather than hand-crafted. What you essentially have is a couple of hours of content stretched out into dozens of hours until you finally beat it. It's akin to just replaying the same checkpoint over and over and consider that adding to the content of the game.

By comparison, take a game like Far Cry 3-6. You have a lot of repetitive activities like clearing out bases and such which can feel pretty copy-pasted - but the bases themselves are hand crafted; not just an algorithm. And after you clear that base; it's yours - actual progress has been made - you are not forced to restart the whole game if you die while trying to take it.

Clearly there are people who enjoy Rogue-likes, but I'm not one of them and avoid them. I've played games like Hades and Prey Mooncrash and none were as good as playing a game with normal progression. Soulslikes are also not really my cup of tea; but at least there is a stronger sense of progression in them since you are not forced to restart the whole game from scratch and they have a pretty decent amount of actual content in them.

But to me, Rogue-likes are really just a time-waste masquerading as being deep with "endless replayability" when they are actually just making you repeat what little content there is until you get tired of it and quit.

Basically, you have wasted time writing down that some people like some games and you dont like those games.

Not to mention that you are trying to compare - really? - games that are more like guilty pleasure and time-fillers to games that actually require litte more time and focus. I dont really see a problem in playing both very easy games (like roguelikes) and much more complex games. Dont understand why playing one type of game should make me not like playing other type(s).

[Castyles]

Yes. They are. One of the worst genres available.

Now go ahead and give me that jester, like you did to OP.

[RANGER]

I agree to disagree

[SDF-7]

I'd type a screed disagreeing with you -- but I have to go spin up another male-human-neutral-wizard in Nethack. Just died to a killer bee swarm in Level 1 of the Gnomish Mines with the last one, dangnabbit.

[GobboKirk]

Originally posted by Gunardian:

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

Technically, every game is a waste of time.

not a waste if we enjoy it.

technically everything is a waste of time :)

[Two Clicks]

For me RogueLikes just build on something akin to a boardgame concept. You remember board games? They were designed to be replayed (and wo the unlocks). Over and over. Same pieces, game board etc. Nothing wrong with that. You just play them when you want to. Not continuously and not repetitively immediately.

Personally I enjoy RL. I can find them frustrating. They sure are repetitive. But ones that are challenging and actually require some grind is what keeps me playing them.

If you look across the genre they come in a range of quality. So its important to find the ones that actually appeal or set themselves apart from the others. For me that tends to be story/setting and mechanics. Though I tend to favour TBS/T versions.

I get the argument re lazy design etc but the point of the game is that they "are" bloody hard and require replay to get through them. So perhaps the genius of a good design is that the challenge isnt necessarily offputting but enough to fail if too many mistakes are made.

Still I guess maybe RL arent for everyone.

[Icedfate]

time enjoyed wasting is not wasted time

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by Gunardian:

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

Technically, every game is a waste of time.

not a waste if we enjoy it.

That's the point. Time you enjoyed wasting isn't wasted time.

I personally don't like rogues (very few exceptions aside), I can't get into the mindset of how the genre operates. So I just simply play other games.