I'm done with Steam! Just another dictator in the gaming industry!

[MattJE9601]

Until now I've always thought pretty highly of Steam, but today while trying to set up gaming computers for my kids I just realized how greedy and crooked Steam actually is as I can't share my large and very expensive game library with my kids.

By this I do not mean playing the same game at the same time. For that I obviously expect to purchase another license, and would have done for the games they like. I mean playing DIFFERENT games at the same time, each of which I have paid good money for a license for 1 person to play... but it seems that Steam doesn't believe I have the right to use more than one of my games at the same time. I am so sick and tired of the walled gardens and control surrounding the gaming industry as a whole. I'm trying to move my kids to PC gaming to get away from xboxes as I already can't stand Microsoft... and how many times I've had to pay for Minecraft just for a single person!

So here's the deal... unless this changes, I will no longer be buying my games through Steam. I will buy every game direct from the developer separate from ANY game launchers, and I will use an open source launcher to manage my games from now on. AND I WILL LET MY KIDS PLAY GAMES I'M NOT USING... like it used to be when we actually OWNED the games we paid for! I will also most likely dump my Deck and will not be buying one for each of my kids as I planned on doing.

I'm royally pissed, and everyone else should be too! This is like buying 2 cars from a dealership and them telling you that only one can be driven at any given time. Absolutely absurd and I'm done tolerating this BS! I only wish I could get my games away from Steam so I can completely dump it altogether, but unless I feel like paying for games again (which I honestly might just on principal) I'm still stuck using it for games I already stupidly bought through here. Lesson learned I guess.

I really wish enough people would throw a fit about this. I really don't want to hate Steam but I feel I don't have a choice here. I mean who the F do they think they are to tell us we can't use more than one of the products we own at a time? They simply do it because they have the power to and it makes them more money, plain and simple. Do the game police kick down our door because we shared a game of checkers with our kids? NO! But if it can be tracked digitally it will be shoved right up your *** every time. So goodbye Steam! Thanks for being just like everyone else...

[Nx Machina]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Yeah, at least you have some semblance of ownership on that platform, regardless of what your awful arguments are trying to present. Good luck chasing down every single dude who lent a physical copy of their game to a friend. It's not piracy until they make another copy. Same with the offline installer, if you download it, it's not piracy. If someone else copied and uploaded the copy somewhere, it's piracy, it's a breach of EULA at best.

Again, it's the same ♥♥♥♥ that's written on every physical copy of every single game. You don't own ♥♥♥♥, but at least nobody will stop you from borrowing it to someone else.

I don't know about you, but i'd rather have some control over what i bought.

Oh! please: This is the Witcher 3 eula applicable to both the Steam copy and GOG copy.

https://store.steampowered.com/eula/292030_eula_0

2. WHAT YOU GET WITH THE GAME (snipped)

We (meaning CD PROJEKT RED) give YOU the personal right (called a 'licence' legally) to download, install and play The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt on your personal computer as long as you follow these Rules. This licence is for yYORU PERSONAL USE ONLY (so you can't give a sublicense to someone else) and DOESN'T GIVE YOU OWNERSHIP RIGHTS.

Secondly:

https://media.contentapi.ea.com/content/dam/eacom/en-us/eula/2015-04-03-cd-projekt-the-witcher-3-legal-rules-v0-6-non-500px-structure-final-en-nogog.pdf

(3) WHAT YOU CAN'T DO WITH THE GAME

Summary:

Below are some examples of things we ask you not to do with The
Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (e.g. don’t cheat or use hacks). And just to be clear, for
all of you doing Let’s Plays on YouTube, we are totally fine with it and yes,
when you monetize it we are also fine.

Please act reasonably and don't do any of the following:

a. copy, distribute,

And finally your original point was:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Additional copies? Are you not aware GoG offers offline installers?

Which are for your PERSONAL use only and as this thread is about playing game simultaneously you were clearly stating "hey you can share your offline installers".

[Tito Shivan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cablenexus:

Until it went from physical to digital it was perfectly normal to share any games you bought with other family members..

Family members, school pals, neighbors... And somehow down the road we have Gamestop making money hand over fist reselling games.

Thing is developers don't want their games to be shared, simple as that. Any shared game is a game not bought from them.

That's why DRM happens, that's why online services like Steam happen. That's why developers are starting to build their own services to tie their games with, to cut the middleman.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MattJE9601:

I really don't get what's so hard to understand about my issue.

We understand your issue, some are just trying to tell you that what you want to goes, against what the largest part of the industry think it should operate.

The dev of the game you have on Steam and want to share actually wants you to buy another copy, not to share it.

[Kargor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Crazy Tiger:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cablenexus:

Just offering flat, digital, virtual and low value content will not be enough anymore in a year or two.

People been saying that for years already. Reality is that the advantage of digital is that there is no shelf space to compete for. Low quality and good quality games can easily exist next to each other in the digital realms without actually interfering with each other.

It's not just about quality.

Shelf-space is shelf-space, and its actually expensive. Your publisher needs to convince stores to put your games into a decent location, not the dusty old backroom that nobody ever goes into, or the top shelf that nobody can reach unless they specifically ask for it so they get a little stool or something to help them reach.

I've given thumb-ups to all sorts of games, small to big. Small games in particular would have problems competing for shelf-space.

And then there's the stores themselves. Back in the day, I've always had issues even getting games -- I didn't want the bad German versions. Stores were focused on violence only -- if a "US version" was more violent and bloody than the German, they might stock it. But I wanted original versions for everything, so that was slightly more difficult.

Shelf-space pretty much means disk-space too, and they just didn't make games with all language versions on the disks.

The only thing I really miss about the old physical copies of the 80s and 90s are the manuals. Stuff like the Vault guide with Fallout, or the units guide I had with Codename Panzers.

Yeah. Nowadays, I complain if I have to look up a lot of things on the Internet because the game doesn't tell me anything. Times change.

But even then, they sold additional books to tell people how to actually play the game... unless it was a super-simple one.

[Start_Running]

Yup. Devs want to majke money and sadly they learn very quickly that gamers generally don't want to spend money.

[Knightspace]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

You have the SAME legal ownership and rights as you do on Steam. The only difference is GoG quite literally has no way of enforcing the terms. And that is why you'll notice many devs and publishers kinda steer clear of GoG.

Also Gog is not doing so well finacially

BIG developers steer clear of GoG because it doesn't have an integrated DRM and doesn't allow other DRM, like Denuvo. Which is asinine, because, as CDPR games showed, piracy isn't that big of an issue as greedy publishers would want you to believe. But that's the state of the gaming industry and we let this ♥♥♥♥ happen.

Also, where's your source for GoG failing financially? The oldest reports i can find that state this are from way back in 2019.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nx Machina:

Which are for your PERSONAL use only

Again, EVERY SINGLE GAME HAD THIS, even before this ♥♥♥♥ heap of a glorified DRM came into being. They still do.

Your point is moot.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Again, EVERY SINGLE GAME HAD THIS, even before this ♥♥♥♥ heap of a glorified DRM came into being. They still do.

Your point is moot.

Tell CDPR it is moot that you cannot share games and you do not own them.

[MattJE9601]

To be clear, I'm not against DRM or any copyright protection... but there's no reason I shouldn't be able to play more than one game at once other than greed. And it's really disappointing as there are so many things I like about Steam.

[Knightspace]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nx Machina:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Again, EVERY SINGLE GAME HAD THIS, even before this ♥♥♥♥ heap of a glorified DRM came into being. They still do.

Your point is moot.

Tell CDPR it is moot that you cannot share games.

You were always legally able to share games, it wasn't legal to make a copy of the game. If you shared a game, it wasn't a breach of law, it was a breach of an agreement. It wasn't piracy, it was just what companies didn't want you to do.

But at least you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ owned the games you paid money for.

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

You have the SAME legal ownership and rights as you do on Steam. The only difference is GoG quite literally has no way of enforcing the terms. And that is why you'll notice many devs and publishers kinda steer clear of GoG.

Also Gog is not doing so well finacially

BIG developers steer clear of GoG because it doesn't have an integrated DRM and doesn't allow other DRM, like Denuvo. Which is asinine, because, as CDPR games showed, piracy isn't that big of an issue as greedy publishers would want you to believe. But that's the state of the gaming industry and we let this ♥♥♥♥ happen.

And yet when CDPR puts their games on OTHER platforms they make full use of all that nasty restrictive DRM for some reason. Funny how that works. The simple truth is CDPR knows they painted themselves into a rather bad corner with that rule, but they dare not change it.

The sales pitch they used when their fopcus was primarily older classic retro games doesn't really work for them now that they've shifted focus to more modern games.

And there's plenty of small devs that avoid GoG as well. And even where they do you'll find a lot of the time they come to GoG later than other platforms.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Also, where's your source for GoG failing financially? The oldest reports i can find that state this are from way back in 2019.

Abnd there's no sign that the trend has broken. Thethings GoG has been cutting kinda tell the story there.

Also never said GoG was failing, just said they aren't doing so well.. as compared to Steam.
It's also kinda telling that you don't see many key sellers selling GoG keys.

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nx Machina:

Tell CDPR it is moot that you cannot share games.

You were always legally able to share games, it wasn't legal to make a copy of the game. If you shared a game, it wasn't a breach of law, it was a breach of an agreement. It wasn't piracy, it was just what companies didn't want you to do.

But at least you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ owned the games you paid money for.

And when you shared that game you lost the ability to play that game while it was shared. Just like when you share your library, you lose access to it while it's shared.

[RiO]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nx Machina:

You were never LEGALLY able to share physical PC discs as the Eula was for your personal use only.

The EULA also used to sit in the box, without any way to familiarize yourself with its terms up front or even be cued that it existed in the first place. In many jurisdictions in the world, that translates to said EULA being a 100% unenforceable piece of scrap paper.

The same legislation that necked those boxed-in EULAs in the day, is why Steam today has that nice ocher-yellow warning box in the store front sidebar placing attention on the existence of a third party end-user license agreement.
If they wouldn't do that; then that agreement would be unenforceable as well.

[MattJE9601]

Also, I can't speak to any specific DRM / CDPR, but typically the term "PERSONAL USE" refers to the individual as well as immediate family / household. It's generally not a rock solid all limiting 'you are the only person who can lay eyes on it' sort of thing.

[Komarimaru]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nx Machina:

Tell CDPR it is moot that you cannot share games.

You were always legally able to share games, it wasn't legal to make a copy of the game. If you shared a game, it wasn't a breach of law, it was a breach of an agreement. It wasn't piracy, it was just what companies didn't want you to do.

But at least you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ owned the games you paid money for.

Again, it was never legal to share games. And you never once owned a game ever. Software has been licensed since the 60's and 70's.

You owned the media it came on, that was it. Why developers started to make Code Wheels, Code Sheets with Film, make users look up a certain Word on a Page Number and Line Number. Eventually they just moved to Keys.

So no, you were never legally, ever, allowed to share a game.

[Nx Machina]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

You were always legally able to share games, it wasn't legal to make a copy of the game. If you shared a game, it wasn't a breach of law, it was a breach of an agreement. It wasn't piracy, it was just what companies didn't want you to do.

But at least you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ owned the games you paid money for.

Nope you were because the eula was on the disc YOU purchased and was personal to YOU.

Secondly you owned the disc which you could not resell and you never owned the content.

[MattJE9601]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knightspace:

You were always legally able to share games, it wasn't legal to make a copy of the game. If you shared a game, it wasn't a breach of law, it was a breach of an agreement. It wasn't piracy, it was just what companies didn't want you to do.

But at least you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ owned the games you paid money for.

And when you shared that game you lost the ability to play that game while it was shared. Just like when you share your library, you lose access to it while it's shared.

No, if I own 100 games and share 1, we're treated as if we loaned out all 100 games. This is what's absurd!