competition from epic games is forcing valve to update its client and add new features

[Rain]

nice .

[RasaNova]

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

brian9824 původně napsal:

Lootboxes when done properly are not classified as gambling, hence why its allowed and why the FTC and other organizations have not fined Valve or others for allowing children to gabmle. That is a fact, deal with it.

You keep mistaking your opinion for actual fact. When the REAL facts are the governments don't consider lootboxes to be gambling at present because there is no built in way to cash out. Same way they got around it during prohibition in America when you won a "gumball" that some person would "pay" you for outside of the establishment.

Again you not liking the facts, doesn't remove the facts. Now the laws are being debated, and lootboxes might very well be considered gambling in the future. France did change their laws a few years ago which led to minor tweaks from Valve and others to stay in compliance, and some countries where it IS considered gambling lootboxes are not available for those users such as the Netherlands which bans ALL lootboxes and steam complies



And the moon is made of cheese. All the astronauts who landed on it just lied just like EPIC's CEO did.

I'm getting worried, are you alright? This shouldn't be so difficult to comprehend, my friend:

If you have a product in your store that generates billions, your store is profitable. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if it is product A, B, C...

As for the gambling thing, yeah, "surprise mechanics", I know lol:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/06/ea-loot-boxes-actually-surprise-mechanics-that-are-ethical-and-fun/

I mean no offense but maybe just take a moment to consider if your understanding of how it works is in fact more a curate than Epic's, their lawyers, Apple's lawyers, and the judge's understanding of how it works.

I'm no more of an expert than you or anyone else on the matter. But if I had to guess, since I have to assume the reports are accurate, any losses are INCLUDING whatever Fortnite brought in.

[Brian9824]

RasaNova původně napsal:

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

I'm getting worried, are you alright? This shouldn't be so difficult to comprehend, my friend:

If you have a product in your store that generates billions, your store is profitable. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if it is product A, B, C...

As for the gambling thing, yeah, "surprise mechanics", I know lol:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/06/ea-loot-boxes-actually-surprise-mechanics-that-are-ethical-and-fun/

I mean no offense but maybe just take a moment to consider if your understanding of how it works is in fact more a curate than Epic's, their lawyers, Apple's lawyers, and the judge's understanding of how it works.

I'm no more of an expert than you or anyone else on the matter. But if I had to guess, since I have to assume the reports are accurate, any losses are INCLUDING whatever Fortnite brought in.

Yep, EPIC's own numbers they release even break it out by first party and third party titles. Now they don't lump much of EPIC's microtransactions and sales for fortnight as part of their EGS sales since those take place in game, and not via the EGS.

[vizthex]

Komarimaru původně napsal:

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

Have you read their contracts with Valve? Feel free to ask them why.

As I mentioned, the answer may have something to do with this:

The only reason why indie devs release their games on Steam is that some people don't even buy games from other platforms.

The fact that their games aren't on EGS doesn't change the fact that they dislike Steam. Also, both articles are from 2018. EGS started letting developers self-publish a few months ago:

https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/9/23630864/epic-games-store-self-publish-tools-ratings

Some of these people may even have moved away from the videogame industry.

But don't worry, if you want to see devs that released their game on EGS, here's a good article for you:

https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/xcom-creator-says-the-epic-games-store-is-great-for-indie-games-3285471

The contracts are public access. Why do you think everyone is laughing at the Wolfire games suite that's failed each time? And now Wolfire has to prove without a doubt, that Valve says controls the prices on other stores too.

Like seriously, do you think people get special contracts only for them? LOL

And ya... a developer who has a history of games, claims that EGS is great for Indie's, when in reality that they are only great for well known developers and titles and will buy out others to try and get their games released first on a store that's failing still.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, that company is real lmao? I thought it was made up for a scam lol

just checked and by god are their "games" the definition of an asset flip. Cheapest thing ever with minimal gameplay. I don't know what posses people to make something like that.

and yeah, you're right - epic is a marketing black hole. Anyone with a brain can see that. Even triple A games get lower sales when going epic exclusive. Nobody uses the damn thing, nor do they want to deal with how awful it is to use - so we just wait for the Steam release.

[Anonymous Helper]

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

The truth is quite simple: EGS has been profitable since day 1 thanks to Fortnite. The game is not outside the store, you know that. But go on, the more you embrace denial, the funnier it gets.

Look at it this way.

If Epic lost Fortnite today, Epic would have to shut down EGS tomorrow or at very least shut all free games, exclusivity and cash coupon programs.

On the other hand, if Epic lost EGS today, Epics finances would improve as they no longer had the thing that causes hundreds of millions in loses every year. Losing EGS would not effect Fortnite sales in any meaningful way. Heck, if they put it on Steam, they'd probably made more on first day than entire time Fortnite has been on EGS.

[Brian9824]

Anonymous Helper původně napsal:

Pierce Dalton původně napsal:

The truth is quite simple: EGS has been profitable since day 1 thanks to Fortnite. The game is not outside the store, you know that. But go on, the more you embrace denial, the funnier it gets.

Look at it this way.

If Epic lost Fortnite today, Epic would have to shut down EGS tomorrow or at very least shut all free games, exclusivity and cash coupon programs.

On the other hand, if Epic lost EGS today, Epics finances would improve as they no longer had the thing that causes hundreds of millions in loses every year. Losing EGS would not effect Fortnite sales in any meaningful way. Heck, if they put it on Steam, they'd probably made more in a day than entire time Fortnite has been on EGS.

Eh they could still manage to keep it, they own the unreal engine too so that is a very significant income stream as well. That and fortnite are their major moneymakers.

[[?]legit]

brian9824 původně napsal:

Anonymous Helper původně napsal:

Look at it this way.

If Epic lost Fortnite today, Epic would have to shut down EGS tomorrow or at very least shut all free games, exclusivity and cash coupon programs.

On the other hand, if Epic lost EGS today, Epics finances would improve as they no longer had the thing that causes hundreds of millions in loses every year. Losing EGS would not effect Fortnite sales in any meaningful way. Heck, if they put it on Steam, they'd probably made more in a day than entire time Fortnite has been on EGS.

Eh they could still manage to keep it, they own the unreal engine too so that is a very significant income stream as well. That and fortnite are their major moneymakers.

Exactly. People think it's just fortnite, but their massive success already began with pubg and then their income literally exploded with fortnite. Now it#s too big to fail.

[vizthex]

?legit původně napsal:

Now it's too big to fail.

every corporation is "too big to fail" until they do.

[Fiona the Gamer]

Actually Epic games is now better, but it still in the processes of improving it's platform.

Wait until 2024, it will be a worthy competitor to steam.

Who knows by 2028 Epic Games will be comparable or even surpass steam as a gaming platform. If they can pull it off, this will change the PC gaming environment indefinitely. Think Nintendo vs Sony in Console, as in Epic Games vs. Steam.

[Brian9824]

?legit původně napsal:

brian9824 původně napsal:

Eh they could still manage to keep it, they own the unreal engine too so that is a very significant income stream as well. That and fortnite are their major moneymakers.

Exactly. People think it's just fortnite, but their massive success already began with pubg and then their income literally exploded with fortnite. Now it#s too big to fail.

EPIC as a whole sure, their store on the other hand is definitely not. Just like Steam tested selling movies and making gaming PC's, both of which weren't profitable and were discontinued despite being "too big to fail".

EPIC as a whole isn't going to fail and go bankrupt, but if they can't figure out a way to turn around their third party sales and stop losing hundreds of millions a year from it they aren't going to keep losing that money forever.

EPIC will go back to just using their software for their own games like Battle.net, ubisoft, Bethesda (used to), etc.

[Hammer Of Evil]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| původně napsal:

🌧️ Rain 🌧 původně napsal:

nice .

You do realize that Epic is known as a loss leader?

There is no competition. They pay developers to put their games on their store for free. Those free games may not cost you anything but they are definitely not free.

Also there are 125 million active Steam accounts. Epic doesn't have anywhere near that amount.

EDIT:

Loss leader:

a product sold at a loss to attract customers

HUH. i wondered why they were giving away AAA and A titles that are definitely worth the 50-70$ price tags away for free.

its kinda crazy actually, i wouldn't do that as a business.

[Brian9824]

Hammer Of Evil původně napsal:

C²C^Guyver |NZB| původně napsal:

You do realize that Epic is known as a loss leader?

There is no competition. They pay developers to put their games on their store for free. Those free games may not cost you anything but they are definitely not free.

Also there are 125 million active Steam accounts. Epic doesn't have anywhere near that amount.

EDIT:

Loss leader:

a product sold at a loss to attract customers

HUH. i wondered why they were giving away AAA and A titles that are definitely worth the 50-70$ price tags away for free.

its kinda crazy actually, i wouldn't do that as a business.

It's a risky strategy, but it can work, however EPIC made numerous mistakes with how they did it. They turned what should be a SHORT term strategy, into long term. The problem is yeah they have a large "user base" now who aren't buying games and just collecting all the free games.

What is worse is users equate EPIC with free games, and they have so many free games its deterring many from PAYING for games, afterall why pay when you keep getting more free?

Once the free games stop, the users will stop using the site. Unfortunately instead of focusing on the client and making a platform with features people want like Steam workshop, they focused on exclusives and the wrong areas. As a result without the free games and exclusives EPIC has nothing that everyone else doesn't already do better.

[Anonymous Helper]

Fiona the Gamer původně napsal:

Actually Epic games is now better, but it still in the processes of improving it's platform.

Still a several hundred million black hole like since launch.

Fiona the Gamer původně napsal:

Wait until 2024, it will be a worthy competitor to steam.

Like it was supposed to be in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023?

Fiona the Gamer původně napsal:

Who knows by 2028 Epic Games will be comparable or even surpass steam as a gaming platform. If they can pull it off, this will change the PC gaming environment indefinitely. Think Nintendo vs Sony in Console, as in Epic Games vs. Steam.

I have my doubts. Only small percentage of it's user base have ever purchased anything from EGS. What reason do anyone have staying on EGS after they shut down the free game and exclusivity programs?

[DiceDsx]

brian9824 původně napsal:

Anonymous Helper původně napsal:

Look at it this way.

If Epic lost Fortnite today, Epic would have to shut down EGS tomorrow or at very least shut all free games, exclusivity and cash coupon programs.

On the other hand, if Epic lost EGS today, Epics finances would improve as they no longer had the thing that causes hundreds of millions in loses every year. Losing EGS would not effect Fortnite sales in any meaningful way. Heck, if they put it on Steam, they'd probably made more in a day than entire time Fortnite has been on EGS.

Eh they could still manage to keep it, they own the unreal engine too so that is a very significant income stream as well. That and fortnite are their major moneymakers.

According to the court docs, Unreal Engine made 124M in 2018 and 97M in 2019.

A lot of money, but a drop in the ocean compared to the billions Fortnite brings home.

[RasaNova]

In my opinion, all Epic had to do was leave out the paid exclusives. Then they wouldn't have angered a very sizable portion of the gaming community. The coupons, free games, and more dev-friendly revenue split would have been enough to show them as being consumer and dev friendly, and much more appealing as a store front. Instead, here we are - strong-arming indie devs into taking their deal or taking a hike, and taking choice away from their customers.

I know it's pure speculation and guesswork, but I could imagine they would have actually done a lot better if they hadn't done the exclusivity deals. Is there any indication anywhere of how much they have gained from these contracts?

[vizthex]

brian9824 původně napsal:

Hammer Of Evil původně napsal:

HUH. i wondered why they were giving away AAA and A titles that are definitely worth the 50-70$ price tags away for free.

its kinda crazy actually, i wouldn't do that as a business.

It's a risky strategy, but it can work, however EPIC made numerous mistakes with how they did it. They turned what should be a SHORT term strategy, into long term. The problem is yeah they have a large "user base" now who aren't buying games and just collecting all the free games.

What is worse is users equate EPIC with free games, and they have so many free games its deterring many from PAYING for games, after all why pay when you keep getting more free?

Once the free games stop, the users will stop using the site. Unfortunately instead of focusing on the client and making a platform with features people want like Steam workshop, they focused on exclusives and the wrong areas. As a result without the free games and exclusives EPIC has nothing that everyone else doesn't already do better.

exactly this. They may have however many million monthly active users (MAU), but when the free games stop that'll cliffdive down into just the fortnite players.

you open the launcher whenever you're reminded about it in a video or what have you, claim your free games, and never touch it again until the next time you're reminded about it.

it just has nothing to offer. Still missing a ton of features - and even though they recently copied platform achievements, almost no games support it. Not even their own have them lol. And yeah that's mostly on the game devs, but when Valve introduced Steam achievements they added them to all the Half-Life 2 games, TF2, Portal, etc.

same for when Microsoft invented platform achievements - they added it to Halo 2 and other first-party titles to help advertise the system.

and yeah, platforms achievements are pretty ubiquitous nowadays - but this just shows that epic truly does not give a ♥♥♥♥ about making a Steam competitor. They're just salty they didn't get into the launcher game early, so now they're trying to force their way in way too late.

it's like if you started playing a board game with some friends, and one guy you've known for a while arrived late and demands to be included into the game even though it's halfway over. He's not being patient and is thus acting cringe.

epic is the same. Rather than investing the time & money required to make a proper Steam competitor, they half-assed it by launching way too early and trying to bribe everyone in a failed attempt to get users onto their platform.

they advertise the lower cut really hard too, but a lower cut means ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you get no sales - and i think most people fail to realize that. 30% of 100,000 sales is vastly more profitable than 12% of 50,000.