Early Access/Beta Games

[Gro]

Just a quick comment about these kickstarter or early access games. I'm not sure if these games are worth investing in.

I've read a lot of reviews by people which base their views on these unfinished or in development games, and while a lot of these games are great or have great potential, isn't the real problem that by the time these games have been tweeked, updated, bug improvements etc.. you've played the game so much that you get tired of it before it's a finished product.

I may be in the minority (who knows), but I tend to play a game for a few months and then move on to aother game.

I just think that you can never really play these games at their best.

So, I'm not sure if beta games are a good thing or not, what do you think?

[Gus the Crocodile]

引用自 squirtikiss：

I know exactly what it means to buy an EA game. That is why I do not buy them.

You already said you don't buy them, and that's fine. But when your words are calling them "investments" and claiming that you should get a share of profits, I can only conclude that no, you don't know exactly what it means to buy an EA game.

引用自 squirtikiss：

Comparing buying EA to ordering a cake is ridiculous. If the cake is made incorrectly you do not have to pay. If you paid ahead of time, you will be refunded if you are not satisfied. Neither case applies to an EA purchase.

Absolutely correct, because an EA purchase is not an order for any particular "final" product. It's a purchase of the game as it is now, that comes with access to any updates the developer adds, if they add any. In other words it's the same as any other purchase on Steam.

(Edited for clarity) The cake/bakery bit was not an analogy for Early Access, it was an illustration of the fact that buying something unfinished does not give you a right to a slice of the company's profits.

[Achelon]

引用自 squirtikiss：

As I said I would I checked out "Grim Dawn". It turns out I was already following it. It also turns out there will be an option to buy it DRM free when the game is finished. That is one of the things I look for when buying games. Unfortunately getting it DRM free means NOT buying it EA as I would have to buy it again.

I own Grim Dawn and while I think it's perhaps the best Diablo 2-esque game out there and have enjoyed it a whole lot, I honestly think waiting isn't a bad thing.

It doesn't yet have all of its campaign content (missing a chapter or two of act 3 and missing the smaller act 4) and the subsequent difficulty options (above normal) are also locked out for now, I did get a bit bummed out from tossing a lot of hours in and suddenly hearing "no more content for now".

Definitely pick it up once it's out of E.A. though, it's a fantastic game.

[HLCinSC]

引用自 YoWutSup：

引用自 squirtikiss：

I know exactly what it means to buy an EA game. That is why I do not buy them. If I knew the developer well enough to trust him to finish the job, I would buy the game if it interested me. I do not know any developers so I do not buy EA.
An earlier poster mentioned a game being developed by one who worked upon Titan's Quest. Titan Quest is an excellent game so I am going to check out that game. It may be the first EA I buy. (If it still is EA.)
Comparing buying EA to ordering a cake is ridiculous. If the cake is made incorrectly you do not have to pay. If you paid ahead of time, you will be refunded if you are not satisfied. Neither case applies to an EA purchase.

Don't worry. Steam is famous for some of the worst analogies in the net.

Change bakery to all the crowd funding sources like Kickstarter, Your basically pre-ordering a game not making a loan or buying shares of a company.

[Gus the Crocodile]

You are explicitly not preordering with Early Access; the FAQ covers that:

Is this the same as pre-purchasing a game?

No. Early Access is a full purchase of a playable game. By purchasing, you gain immediate access to download and play the game in its current form and as it evolves. You keep access to the game, even if the game later moves from Early Access into fully released.

I know you're only trying to persuade people that it's not about becoming an investor, which is of course true, but I think telling people it's like preordering reinforces the idea that they're paying for some particular future version of the product, which is not the case.

[HLCinSC]

引用自 Gus the Crocodile：

You are explicitly not preordering with Early Access; the FAQ covers that:

Is this the same as pre-purchasing a game?

No. Early Access is a full purchase of a playable game. By purchasing, you gain immediate access to download and play the game in its current form and as it evolves. You keep access to the game, even if the game later moves from Early Access into fully released.

I know you're only trying to persuade people that it's not about becoming an investor, which is of course true, but I think telling people it's like preordering reinforces the idea that they're paying for some particular future version of the product, which is not the case.

Fair enough, you got the ;larger point I was trying to make. I still view it as a form of a pre-order though. Just like with pre-ordering based on fancy trailers, the final product can vary drastically from your expectations

[Gus the Crocodile]

Yeah, if you look at them both as having that kind of uncertainty, I do see the similarity. I prefer to emphasise the certainty of the right-now version, personally, but any perspective that understands which things are guaranteed as part of the purchase and which aren't, is of course perfectly healthy :)

[BodyBag]

seems like these games are a good reason for a developer to release a game unfinished which never comes about being finished and probably the engines could never handle the finished product anyway, h1z1 will be the last pre finished game i buy

[僕の名前 (仮)]

I buy early access games, play about 10 hours and then wait for release, so I don't get tired of it in beta days, but I know what can I expect. It's also cool to see how game changed (balance, content and mechanics).

I did it with Don't Starve, I did it with Invisible Inc, I now wait for Space Engineers to release (besides that, I want to build new PC to run it without fps lags).

[76561198001062896]

引用自 BodyBag：

seems like these games are a good reason for a developer to release a game unfinished which never comes about being finished and probably the engines could never handle the finished product anyway, h1z1 will be the last pre finished game i buy

Like triple a games were always so much poli-oh wait they aint
NO eelf respecting company would try and pull such trick if they wish to stay in business

[supertrooper225]

引用自 BodyBag：

seems like these games are a good reason for a developer to release a game unfinished which never comes about being finished and probably the engines could never handle the finished product anyway, h1z1 will be the last pre finished game i buy

People who are claiming games never become finished are usually talking about games that are still in the middle of development. The issue is a lot of people don't realize how much time it takes to finish a game.

[TheStoryteller01]

A comment on Early Access by TotalBiscuit (The Cynical Brit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGbbIB5eaM

It’s from 2014 - check for yourself what has changed to the better since then.

[Sir Vival]

I'm love the beta test for find bug :D

[Start_Running]

引用自 TheStoryteller01：

A comment on Early Access by TotalBiscuit (The Cynical Brit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGbbIB5eaM

It’s from 2014 - check for yourself what has changed to the better since then.

Lets see...

* 'Caveat Emptor does not apply' - Incorrect.

* You're betatesting the game - Incorrect

* Cites 'Fit for purpose' - Not applicable, entertainment products operate ona loophole with that. No one said you had to enjoy it. Simply that the product has the current features advertised. You're buying an incomplete game with X,y z features. If you then decide to purchase it then you have rightly implied that the product is fit for the purposee for which it was purchased.. otherwise.. you would not have purchased it.

* origin's immediate refund policy only applies to games that are the property of EA or it's subsisdiaries and does not apply to third party titles. WHen it comes to their own games Valve is actually much more flexible on the whole issue of refunds.

* Dangerous for Uninformed consumer' - COrrect. Though the difference between informed and uninformed is being able to take 5 mins to google something. I didn't know the dog was dangerous' Didn't you see the big sign on the fence? ' Yeah but I couldn't be bothered to read it'
Ignorace.. never an excuse.

* Dayz's warning is the standard boilerplate that is given in the Early access Faq and the warning the pops up.

* In his quote about the Rust devlopers and asking why they should be trusted... that's the point at which any sensible consumer would put the brakes on. If you can't find a reason to trust an Early Access developer... why then would you give him your trust and money.


I could go on but his video is basically (like many others) essentially parroting the gripes of the uninformed consumer. It stems from how one looks at it. The common view is that Early Access is about selling games... which it really isn't .. it is about providing developers with funding to finish their games.

[TheStoryteller01]

Erik Kain’s elaborate (and lengthy) article on forbes about arguments like “buyer beware”, “vote with your wallet” and “entitled gamers”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/03/31/why-buyer-beware-is-a-terrible-excuse-for-bad-video-games/

[YoWutSup]

引用自 TheStoryteller01：

Erik Kain’s elaborate (and lengthy) article on forbes about arguments like “buyer beware”, “vote with your wallet” and “entitled gamers”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/03/31/why-buyer-beware-is-a-terrible-excuse-for-bad-video-games/

Well well what do you know...the article brings up Jim Sterling right in the beginning (lol). Is the guy your idol or something?