How Can Paid Mods be Done Right?

[urknighterrant]

Paid mods for Skyrim was a disaster. Nobody will deny that, but I don't think it's an intrinsically bad idea. IMHO it only failed this time because it was implemented stupidly. 

It should never have been implemented in a game with an established modding community. That was their biggest mistake. Any idiot could have told them it would be an invitation to rampant theft. 

The best mods are done by whole teams, but the workshop didn't allow for profit splitting or payment through an organization like an escrow service. This in and of itself was enough to make a mockery of any claims that it would encourage "higher quality mods".

So I've been thinking... how could this be done RIGHT. 

Paid modding isn't an intrinsically bad idea, but the industry needs to learn from these mistakes.

I also had a couple other thoughts. 

It seems to me that the idea of professional modding needs to be done as a core game concept, not an aside (much less years after release). This way mods can be tied to the license attached to the toolset used to develop them and the community knows right from the start they have a certain responsibility to protect their ideas. The core system could also allow modders to leave secret "signatures" in their code that would automatically detect unauthorized use of someone else's code. These types of functions would be easy to implement and a very effective way to further deter theft. 

Participation should not be free, automated, or anonymous. Once you start taking money you lose the right to hide behind a username. Participation should be verified through a mailing address (the same way Google verifies business owners) and checks should be mailed making fraud and theft much more dangerous for scammers. A small registration fee, say $100, should be more than adequate to keep munchkin level griefers away and pay the game publisher to administer registrations. Postage and mailing service fees can be deducted from the modder's cut. 

The modder should get the lions share of the payments. Apple's 70-30 split seems like a fair model. 

Oh... and as a modder I don't like the lifespan of my mod dictated by the participation of an outside server. When it's done right professional modding will probably be done as a Peer to Peer client in-game rather than through a digital distributor like steam.

[Yecti]

My issue with paid mods centers on what modding used to be in the gaming community versus what it is now. I understand the desire to support modders who make quality content, but at the same time the modding community used to be just that -- a community. People were modifying games to enhance their own (and their friends') experience with the game. Sharing it online was a means of finding other like-minded people with which to share that experience.

The added complexity that today's games bring to the table makes the hobbyist modder a dying breed, and with it it's killing off an aspect of community. Anyone who played Dark Forces 2 when it was new knows all to well what I'm talking about. Sites like Massassi are all but gone, and don't exist for new games. Instead everything goes on the Nexus, and nobody knows anyone's name.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por borgin90:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Pretty much every arguement made against paid mod in this last serveral pages can be countered by one site.

https://www.etsy.com/

A shop that sells people's work. Great. How is that relevant to mods, again?

1. Hobbiests
2. selling
3. their craft

as many here have stated there are billizon differnt examples of hobbiest making money from their craft. Trying to shut that evidence down by saying its not related to mods will NOT help you.You can win the debate but still come off looking like a moron if your not careful.

as I stated orginally, all forms of known logic and commerce go completely out the window when you talk to gamers about mods becasue of reasons they are afraid to mention

[76561198257348571]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

1. Hobbiests
2. selling
3. their craft

as many here have stated there are billizon differnt examples of hobbiest making money from their craft. Trying to shut that evidence down by saying its not related to mods will NOT help you.You can win the debate but still come off looking like a moron if your not careful.

Look up what 'hobbyist' means. It's inherent in the word that they DON'T make any money from it. Feel free to try again.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

as I stated orginally, all forms of known logic and commerce go completely out the window when you talk to gamers about mods becasue of reasons they are afraid to mention

Good way to try to argue your point.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por borgin90:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

1. Hobbiests
2. selling
3. their craft

as many here have stated there are billizon differnt examples of hobbiest making money from their craft. Trying to shut that evidence down by saying its not related to mods will NOT help you.You can win the debate but still come off looking like a moron if your not careful.

Look up what 'hobbyist' means. It's inherent in the word that they DON'T make any money from it. Feel free to try again.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

as I stated orginally, all forms of known logic and commerce go completely out the window when you talk to gamers about mods becasue of reasons they are afraid to mention

Good way to try to argue your point.

ok so that doesnt change anything at all

[76561198257348571]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

ok so that doesnt change anything at all

Sure thing.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por borgin90:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

ok so that doesnt change anything at all

Sure thing.

dude think about it

If those people who make crafts are Etzy are not hobbies and instead barney rubbles then you have done nothing whatsoever other than change the word for exactly the same thing.

if its reasonable for people to sell their crafts on Etzy then they should be able to sell their mod 'crafts' as well.

pretty simple, you failed miserablly and more importantly everyone can see right thu all of this more clear than the clearest glass

[Tux]

I find this circular logic kinda funny.

A person who sells their craft is not a hobbiest because they sell their craft.
How did they become non-hobbiest? by selling their craft
Can a modder sell their craft? no becuase its a hobby
so to not be a hobbiest all they have to do is sell their craft?
no because they cant sell their craft because the are hobbiest


♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded

[76561198257348571]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

dude think about it

I have been. I've just been waiting for you to join me.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

If those people who make crafts are Etzy are not hobbies and instead barney rubbles then you have done nothing whatsoever other than change the word for exactly the same thing.

Unfortunately, it's not the same thing if the difference is being paid. 'Professional modders' are programmers. They get paid to make things like games and DLC. Mods are the domain of hobbyists. If you're looking to do freelance mods and get paid, then donations are as close as you're going to get without actually being employed.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

if its reasonable for people to sell their crafts on Etzy then they should be able to sell their mod 'crafts' as well.

Nope. Mods are for already games. It's like saying people can sell edited versions of films because they've changed something in it. Doesn't work like that.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

pretty simple, you failed miserablly and more importantly everyone can see right thu all of this more clear than the clearest glass

So mad. It's really unnecessary. Just calm yourself down and then get back to me.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por borgin90:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

dude think about it

I have been. I've just been waiting for you to join me.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

If those people who make crafts are Etzy are not hobbies and instead barney rubbles then you have done nothing whatsoever other than change the word for exactly the same thing.

Unfortunately, it's not the same thing if the difference is being paid. 'Professional modders' are programmers. They get paid to make things like games and DLC. Mods are the domain of hobbyists. If you're looking to do freelance mods and get paid, then donations are as close as you're going to get without actually being employed.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

if its reasonable for people to sell their crafts on Etzy then they should be able to sell their mod 'crafts' as well.

Nope. Mods are for already games. It's like saying people can sell edited versions of films because they've changed something in it. Doesn't work like that.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

pretty simple, you failed miserablly and more importantly everyone can see right thu all of this more clear than the clearest glass

So mad. It's really unnecessary. Just calm yourself down and then get back to me.

its not like any of that.

How does a arts and crafts hobbiest become a non-hobbiest?
by making a post on Etzy to sell their craft


THAT IS IT...NO MORE NO LESS THEY ARE NOw NON-HOBBIEST

modding....?
same thing

[76561198257348571]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

its not like any of that.

How does a arts and crafts hobbiest become a non-hobbiest?
by making a post on Etzy to sell their craft


THAT IS IT...NO MORE NO LESS THEY ARE NOw NON-HOBBIEST

modding....?
same thing

Nope, doesn't work like that. People on Etsy sell their own products. Mods are alterations to somebody else's product.

So, either you're a hobbyist making mods or you're employed by the company and a professional programmer. The difference being pay.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por borgin90:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

its not like any of that.

How does a arts and crafts hobbiest become a non-hobbiest?
by making a post on Etzy to sell their craft


THAT IS IT...NO MORE NO LESS THEY ARE NOw NON-HOBBIEST

modding....?
same thing

Nope, doesn't work like that. People on Etsy sell their own products. Mods are alterations to somebody else's product.

So, either you're a hobbyist making mods or you're employed by the company and a professional programmer. The difference being pay.

which is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ARGUEMENT.

the arguement of 'its not legal' is the only arguement that makes any sense at alll but some of the points made here are the stupist things I have ever read in a long time and when it doesnt work what do they do? just change the reasoning and hope nobody notices

[76561198257348571]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

which is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ARGUEMENT.

I see. When you bring in a completely different argument, like Etsy, it's fine. But when I do, it's all caps. Good to know.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

the arguement of 'its not legal' is the only arguement that makes any sense at alll but some of the points made here are the stupist things I have ever read in a long time and when it doesnt work what do they do? just change the reasoning and hope nobody notices

Unfortunately, I've been saying what I said from the very beginning, so that little cop-out doesn't work here. Feel free to go back and read it. In fact, you even agreed with me, saying that kids are encouraged to turn their hobby into a career.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por borgin90:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

which is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ARGUEMENT.

I see. When you bring in a completely different argument, like Etsy, it's fine. But when I do, it's all caps. Good to know.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

the arguement of 'its not legal' is the only arguement that makes any sense at alll but some of the points made here are the stupist things I have ever read in a long time and when it doesnt work what do they do? just change the reasoning and hope nobody notices

Unfortunately, I've been saying what I said from the very beginning, so that little cop-out doesn't work here. Feel free to go back and read it. In fact, you even agreed with me, saying that kids are encouraged to turn their hobby into a career.

nope failed again.

why did I bring in Etzy? because people are saying its a hobby.

I havent even bothered to look up if you are right on the word 'hobby' or not because it doenst even matter and yes Etzy does apply to the arguement.

'its a hobby'

and

'its not contractly legal because its somoene elses code'

is a tagenet that needs a little work there bro,

I am sorry the arguements for not selling mods have all failed miserbally and they barely ever make any sense and ironically the only one that DOES make sense rarely ever gets used.

the contract

I suggest most of you practice a bit of 'know thyself' and become more honest with themselves about the real reason they dont want mods instead of all this bizzare logic in this thread

[z_em]

thx

[76561198257348571]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

nope failed again.

Sure thing.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

why did I bring in Etzy? because people are saying its a hobby.

Unrelated.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

I havent even bothered to look up if you are right on the word 'hobby' or not because it doenst even matter and yes Etzy does apply to the arguement.

'its a hobby'

I suggest looking up what words mean before you try to argue about them, then.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

'its not contractly legal because its somoene elses code'

is a tagenet that needs a little work there bro,

Considering I never said anything involving the word 'legal', I can see why it would need work. Seems it's half formed in your own mind.

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

I am sorry the arguements for not selling mods have all failed miserbally and they barely ever make any sense and ironically the only one that DOES make sense rarely ever gets used.

Let me know when you want a discussion. Otherwise, I'll leave you to the immature tantrum you're throwing.