How Can Paid Mods be Done Right?

[urknighterrant]

Paid mods for Skyrim was a disaster. Nobody will deny that, but I don't think it's an intrinsically bad idea. IMHO it only failed this time because it was implemented stupidly. 

It should never have been implemented in a game with an established modding community. That was their biggest mistake. Any idiot could have told them it would be an invitation to rampant theft. 

The best mods are done by whole teams, but the workshop didn't allow for profit splitting or payment through an organization like an escrow service. This in and of itself was enough to make a mockery of any claims that it would encourage "higher quality mods".

So I've been thinking... how could this be done RIGHT. 

Paid modding isn't an intrinsically bad idea, but the industry needs to learn from these mistakes.

I also had a couple other thoughts. 

It seems to me that the idea of professional modding needs to be done as a core game concept, not an aside (much less years after release). This way mods can be tied to the license attached to the toolset used to develop them and the community knows right from the start they have a certain responsibility to protect their ideas. The core system could also allow modders to leave secret "signatures" in their code that would automatically detect unauthorized use of someone else's code. These types of functions would be easy to implement and a very effective way to further deter theft. 

Participation should not be free, automated, or anonymous. Once you start taking money you lose the right to hide behind a username. Participation should be verified through a mailing address (the same way Google verifies business owners) and checks should be mailed making fraud and theft much more dangerous for scammers. A small registration fee, say $100, should be more than adequate to keep munchkin level griefers away and pay the game publisher to administer registrations. Postage and mailing service fees can be deducted from the modder's cut. 

The modder should get the lions share of the payments. Apple's 70-30 split seems like a fair model. 

Oh... and as a modder I don't like the lifespan of my mod dictated by the participation of an outside server. When it's done right professional modding will probably be done as a Peer to Peer client in-game rather than through a digital distributor like steam.

[YoWutSup]

But the Nexus website has been running on donations. It's a working system. It is in fact a success.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

But the Nexus website has been running on donations. It's a working system. It is in fact a success.

great!

so I ask again in all seriousness.
Given that it works so well why cant we try it for grocery stores? why do we think it would fail in that model if it succeeds in this?

[TheStoryteller01]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

But the Nexus website has been running on donations. It's a working system. It is in fact a success.

great!

so I ask again in all seriousness.
Given that it works so well why cant we try it for grocery stores? why do we think it would fail in that model if it succeeds in this?

As far as I know grocery stores are resellers.

[YoWutSup]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

But the Nexus website has been running on donations. It's a working system. It is in fact a success.

great!

so I ask again in all seriousness.
Given that it works so well why cant we try it for grocery stores? why do we think it would fail in that model if it succeeds in this?

There are organizations that accept food donations. Those have worked quite well I heard. But that's really changing the topic.

[WhiteKnight77]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por TheStoryteller01:

Since I assume that was meant to be sarcasm, I'll stay in tune

I wish your relatives and friends would suddenly charge you for every meal they serve you.

it was sarcasm and yes its good that people don't charge us for the use of public toilets however in case you didn't notice somethings do not work well with donations (like grocery stores) and some thing do like...I don't know what but you cant just say 'donate button was a success' and just leave it there as a general rule as to why access to the park should be donation and not charge.

I know you understand the problem in the logic they are presenting

Then explain why I had to pay to use the toilet at this snack shack[mw2.google.com] in Westkapelle The Netherlands?

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por gallifrey:

Which is why I argue that paid mods can only work if released by the developer who takes resposibility to ensure compatibility.

S.x.

which would in variably mean the modders would get an even smaller cut.

The cut up of profit is to be negotiated. The developers arguably are getting "free" money on mods since someone else is doing the work. Good modding tools within the game should mean fewer problems.

I am NEVER going to pay for a mod where there is no guarantee that it will work and there is no-one to take responsibility for sorting it out. A lot of other people will take a similar view.

Arguably if Steam sell it they are responsible for whether it works or not. If they are taking your money they certainly are morally despite the complexities of international consumer law and restricted use credit agreements.

The problem with "paid mods" is that Steam and the developers want to take the money without assuming responsibility for product being sold.

It's also greed. My idea of "Update Packs" which give purchasers a substantial amount of content for their money is clearly better value for the community but as long as the marketplace continues to spend £7.00+ for a TF2 taunt, and over £1.00 for a completely random TF2 item the temptation is always going to be to sell off content in miniscule pieces no matter how much revulsion and distaste that causes elsewhere in the gaming community.

S.x.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por WhiteKnight77:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

it was sarcasm and yes its good that people don't charge us for the use of public toilets however in case you didn't notice somethings do not work well with donations (like grocery stores) and some thing do like...I don't know what but you cant just say 'donate button was a success' and just leave it there as a general rule as to why access to the park should be donation and not charge.

I know you understand the problem in the logic they are presenting

Then explain why I had to pay to use the toilet at this snack shack[mw2.google.com] in Westkapelle The Netherlands?

because paying for toilets is not uncommon but rather extremely common and all over the place?

no that's not the right answer

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

great!

so I ask again in all seriousness.
Given that it works so well why cant we try it for grocery stores? why do we think it would fail in that model if it succeeds in this?

There are organizations that accept food donations. Those have worked quite well I heard. But that's really changing the topic.

so your saying grocery stores could very well be based on a donation model and work well.

How about electronic stores? could that be based on donation as well? I mean if it works for mods why would it not work for other industries.


and yes this is dead balls accurate 'on topic'

[YoWutSup]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

There are organizations that accept food donations. Those have worked quite well I heard. But that's really changing the topic.

so your saying grocery stores could very well be based on a donation model and work well.

How about electronic stores? could that be based on donation as well? I mean if it works for mods why would it not work for other industries.


and yes this is dead balls accurate 'on topic'

No, I'm saying organizations that accept donations can do well. Much like the Nexus website.

I don't know where you are getting this idea about grocery stores and donations. It's really changing the topic of this thread.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

so your saying grocery stores could very well be based on a donation model and work well.

How about electronic stores? could that be based on donation as well? I mean if it works for mods why would it not work for other industries.


and yes this is dead balls accurate 'on topic'

No, I'm saying organizations that accept donations can do well. Much like the Nexus website.

I don't know where you are getting this idea about grocery stores and donations. It's really changing the topic of this thread.

no its exactly on topic.

you cant just say 'it works' without explaining WHY it works because in the other world (all things other than mods) it typically doesnt work so the statment begs no demands a more detailed explaination. Otherwise you are suggesting the consulting firm I work for would do better with donations and I would do better accpeting a donation model rather than an assured paycheck. That is a HUGE BOLD STATEMENT that you need to clarify. You either need to explain why this model works well specifically for mods and why it DOESNT work well for a lot of other items or you need to explain why this model should be universal otherwise it makes your statment sound like pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ trolling

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

so your saying grocery stores could very well be based on a donation model and work well.

How about electronic stores? could that be based on donation as well? I mean if it works for mods why would it not work for other industries.


and yes this is dead balls accurate 'on topic'

No, I'm saying organizations that accept donations can do well. Much like the Nexus website.

I don't know where you are getting this idea about grocery stores and donations. It's really changing the topic of this thread.

let me say it another way.

without you explaining this position better you can shut me down all you want but anyone with a brain that listens to this logic is going to either be thinking what I am thinking or thinking you are moron. They might not say it but they will be thinking it, it would be better for you to explain it in more detail for reasons I have already explained.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por borgin90:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

you cant just say 'it works' without explaining WHY it works because in the other world (all things other than mods) it typically doesnt work so the statment begs no demands a more detailed explaination. Otherwise you are suggesting the consulting firm I work for would do better with donations and I would do better accpeting a donation model rather than an assured paycheck. That is a HUGE BOLD STATEMENT that you need to clarify. You either need to explain why this model works well specifically for mods and why it DOESNT work well for a lot of other items or you need to explain why this model should be universal otherwise it makes your statment sound like pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ trolling

It really shouldn't be this difficult for you to understand. Mods aren't careers. They're fun little add-ons made by the community. If people want to make definite money from their hobby, they should make a career out of it and start making their own games.

that is also a silly arguement.
modding and game making when it comes to skill sets are pretty much the same thing. Yes i know there are easy mods but there are also hard mods.

In high school kids are taught to find a career they enjoy, try to make their hobby into a proffesion they say. mod to programming is it.

some people work on cars for a living and some do it as a hobby the 'work' is the same

[TheStoryteller01]

Just out of curiosity:

For December/January modding support has been announced for Sword Coast Legends. Do you guys think SCL is a potential candidate for paid mods?

[YoWutSup]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por Yo Wut Sup:

No, I'm saying organizations that accept donations can do well. Much like the Nexus website.

I don't know where you are getting this idea about grocery stores and donations. It's really changing the topic of this thread.

let me say it another way.

without you explaining this position better you can shut me down all you want but anyone with a brain that listens to this logic is going to either be thinking what I am thinking or thinking you are moron. They might not say it but they will be thinking it, it would be better for you to explain it in more detail for reasons I have already explained.

The Nexus website has been running on donations and it has been WORKING. There's nothing bold or crazy about it. There isn't much explanation needed because it's easy to understand why that's so. You are really overthinking this one.

A website is giving their users an "option" to donate money and it has been working for a number of years. I could say this is a working recipe for a number of websites running this model. It's really that simple.

[Joe Cool]

How can paid mods be done right?

1) Make said mod FREE to obtain and use, thus giving the user the option to pay if they like the mod and want to support the author. Otherwise you are guaranteed to run into a scenario like needing to buy a mod in order to make another mod you've bought work. or buying a mod only to have it break your game and wind up completely 100% worthless to you. (ie Bethesda titles)

2) Make sure that a MINIMUM of 98% of the profit from the mod "sale" is going to the person who created the mod. Seriously at the very absolute maximum Steam (or any other platform) should only get 5% of the sale, and even that's extremely generous seeing as how they do NOTHING to create the mods.