I'm Opposed to Rule 15, but Still Want to Support Indie Devs

[alexn55]

Hey Crew. So it's honestly been a while since I posted a Discussion here, but felt I needed to get this off my chest.

So as I'm sure you guys can imagine, I'm very unsettled and concerned by Steam's implementation of Rule 15, which gives payment processors oversight of what games are allowed to be curated on Steam and also gives them power to force Steam to remove any games that find to be problematic. I understand that this was done in response to claims from advocacy groups over Steam and itch.io's curation of games with questionable themes (none of which I've ever been interested in), but as an advocate of independent developers, I recognize that they will likely be the ones who will suffer the most from this new ruling, as they will likely have little to no means of appealing if their titles should be targeted for removal.

To this end, I don't know if I should continue purchasing any other games from Steam at this time. I had considered circumventing the payment processors altogether by purchasing Steam Gift Cards and using credits to purchase games, but worry that any purchases that I make will come across as acceptance of Rule 15. I've already done my part outside of Steam to vocalize my disdain for this new set of regulations, from signing petitions, to contacting local representatives and payment processors, and even spreading awareness on social media. Yet I worry that it will all be rendered moot.

Even so, I want to continue supporting independent developers while vocalizing my opposition to this. I hope that I can rally more support on these channels and pick everyone's brain on how we can get our point across and encourage Steam to rescind Rule 15. As long as it's in effect, though, I'm wondering if it would be a better move to support independent developers on other curators instead of Steam, such as GOG, PSN, or even the eShop. I'm open to discuss the matter with everyone here and hopefully gain some insights on the matter, or even just have cordial discussion. Thank you.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by alexn55:

I'm Opposed to Rule 15, but Still Want to Support Indie Devs

Isn't #3 the larger issue for indie devs?

I mean, if you know your game is adult content, how can indie devs realistically implement age gating?

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Originally posted by alexn55:

I'm Opposed to Rule 15, but Still Want to Support Indie Devs

Isn't #3 the larger issue for indie devs?

I mean, if you know your game is adult content, how can indie devs realistically implement age gating?

It just means to fill out the submission for truthfully. Steam will automatically age gate the game if it's marked as adult content.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Isn't #3 the larger issue for indie devs?

I mean, if you know your game is adult content, how can indie devs realistically implement age gating?

It just means to fill out the submission for truthfully. Steam will automatically age gate the game if it's marked as adult content.

Interesting. I've yet to come across any actual age gating on steam.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Contact them directly and offer to buy from alternate stores or sources. I did just recently for Melven Idle and stated my support for continuing releases off of steam in the Starsector forums, Void War discussions, and a few other games. I've been a big proponent to GoG and smaller independent stores. Offer to be added to a mailing list if the game ever sells outside steam.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

It just means to fill out the submission for truthfully. Steam will automatically age gate the game if it's marked as adult content.

Interesting. I've yet to come across any actual age gating on steam.

If you ever had to put in a birthday, that's the age gate.

[Ben Lubar]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Interesting. I've yet to come across any actual age gating on steam.

If you ever had to put in a birthday, that's the age gate.

That's the age gate system used for third party requirements. The one used for Steam's own age gates simply asks a yes or no question.

For example: https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/240/

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Interesting. I've yet to come across any actual age gating on steam.

If you ever had to put in a birthday, that's the age gate.

I'm pretty sure that's a math question. They want to know what year adds to at least 18.

They accept any year you put in within a certain range and there's no legal disclaimer that says you need to answer that one truthfully.

That's like when the porn site has a green button that says yes and a red button that says no and the question claims to be "are you 18 or older" but any little kid knows that green is go and red is stop because of traffic lights. So the question is "do you want to continue? go/stop"

PS: Dear steam, if this is not the case, please inform me and update the age gating so users understand how to use it.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

If you ever had to put in a birthday, that's the age gate.

I'm pretty sure that's a math question. They want to know what year adds to at least 18.

They accept any year you put in within a certain range and there's no legal disclaimer that says you need to answer that one truthfully.

That's like when the porn site has a green button that says yes and a red button that says no and the question claims to be "are you 18 or older" but any little kid knows that green is go and red is stop because of traffic lights. So the question is "do you want to continue? go/stop"

It's an age gate.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by Chronocide:

I'm pretty sure that's a math question. They want to know what year adds to at least 18.

They accept any year you put in within a certain range and there's no legal disclaimer that says you need to answer that one truthfully.

That's like when the porn site has a green button that says yes and a red button that says no and the question claims to be "are you 18 or older" but any little kid knows that green is go and red is stop because of traffic lights. So the question is "do you want to continue? go/stop"

It's an age gate.

An age gate would keep out people of a certain age.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

It's an age gate.

An age gate would keep out people of a certain age.

An age gate just puts it on the user for lying. What you described are the legal minimum required.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by Chronocide:

An age gate would keep out people of a certain age.

An age gate just puts it on the user for lying. What you described are the legal minimum required.

Gotcha....well, I would not consider that an age gate, but yeah, if that's what they think counts...I guess they have that.

I'd call that the "honor system" not an age gate.

[76561198407601200]

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

It's an age gate.

An age gate would keep out people of a certain age.

You put a birthdate there, it isn't intended to keep anyone out, simply when the inevitable parent wants to sue due to their child being able to see the store page for said game Valve can state "Your kid, who is not over 18 claimed they were over 18 when asked. Take it up with the kid"

[76561198407601200]

Originally posted by The Living Tribunal:

Originally posted by Chronocide:

An age gate would keep out people of a certain age.

You put a birthdate there, it isn't intended to keep anyone out, simply when the inevitable parent wants to sue due to their child being able to see the store page for said game Valve can state "Your kid, who is not over 18 claimed they were over 18 when asked. Take it up with the kid"

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

An age gate just puts it on the user for lying. What you described are the legal minimum required.

Gotcha....well, I would not consider that an age gate, but yeah, if that's what they think counts...I guess they have that.

I'd call that the "honor system" not an age gate.

It isn't based on what you would consider an age gate, hence the confusion on your side.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Basically, find a way to context the developer and inform him of your intend to watch for and even sign up for mailing lists for if the game comes out elsewhere, even independently on his own site. Be reayd to folow that through and snap it up.

[alexn55]

Originally posted by videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

Contact them directly and offer to buy from alternate stores or sources. I did just recently for Melven Idle and stated my support for continuing releases off of steam in the Starsector forums, Void War discussions, and a few other games. I've been a big proponent to GoG and smaller independent stores. Offer to be added to a mailing list if the game ever sells outside steam.

Interesting Take. I will certainly consider that, and have done what I can to reach out to developers of the independent titles I am genuinely passionate about, particularly for developers whose work I cannot find on GOG. Apart from that, if their titles are not available elsewhere, I will give consideration to purchasing their games on the Switch eShop or on PSN, as those are the only other alternatives that I have at this time in order to support them.

I honestly do hope this matter gets resolved in time, as I have cared deeply for Steam and itch for so long as a platform for independent developers, but as long as the payment processors regulate their conflict, I don't feel comfortable giving them such satisfaction, even though I wish no ill will upon either Steam or itch.