Uh oh, Valve is finally facing accountability. Updated.

[Rob⛧Slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13eiDhuvM6Y


I fear for his life because Valve has allowed this community to evolve into a dangerously fanatical and aggressive fandom that is highly organized and mercilessly attacks critics and competitors.

If Valve truly were the "good guys," they would give all active players a free copy of Counter-Strike and revert the game to a flat-rate pricing model, eliminating paid cosmetics. Instead, cosmetics should be earned as rewards for achievements, as it should be. Only players trapped in a sunk cost fallacy would defend the game's current model. Valve has significantly worsened the industry by changing how games are designed. It's their responsibility to fix it.

There's always been a glaring double standard when it comes to Valve, driven by a fandom so dedicated that it's become one of the most toxic relationships in gaming. This intense loyalty not only shields Valve from deserved criticism but also drags the entire industry down. The unwillingness to hold Valve accountable for their practices perpetuates negative trends and allows anti-consumer behavior to flourish unchecked.

[Ogami]

I mean, that Valve has a general libertarian "techbro" company attitude to everything that boils down to " it will somehow regulate itself" is nothing new.
They always been that way. Valve tends to regulate as little as possible and only if absolutely required by bad press/external pressure.
Valve usually only bends under high pressure or if something would threaten their bottom line.

Same with all the racist, bigoted and plain Nazi groups that fester on Steam and on the forums.
Valve has been called out for that a few times by now by different organizations and politicians.
But its not really worth doing anything about it because those users buy games and it would cost them more to expell them then the bit of bad press this generated so far.

If something gets big enough that its making a major stink that makes Valve looks bad in the eyes of a large amount of people, THEN they will do something about it.

Thats just the way Valve always worked. I love the platform and many of the features but i have no illusions about the leadership behind it.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Originalmente postado por muckymucks:

Originalmente postado por C²C^Guyver |NZB|:

Steam existed for over a year before HL2.....

No, it was Half-Life 2.

Steam Launch Sept, 12th 2003
HL2 Launch Nov. 16th 2004

Originalmente postado por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Originalmente postado por muckymucks:

If I want to play Counter-Strike I have to use Steam. There’s no way around it. When Valve forced people to install Steam to play Half-Life 2 they hated it then but gamers are idiots and somehow got it in their head Valve isn’t an evil corporation so they defend Steam now even though it’s the same garbage as every other launcher.

Fandoms thrive on bad faith, and that's a significant reason why the industry is in such turmoil. They often overlook major issues like the fact that Valve successfully put Half-Life 2 behind a DRM paywall, marking one of the first major anti-consumer acts to gain mainstream acceptance. Additionally, if you bring up how Valve mainstreamed predatory monetization models that plague the industry today, it often leads to intense denial.

This topic isn't even in good faith....lol.

LOL HL2 behind a DRM Paywall?

Uhhh. CS 1.6 would like a word.

Steam HAS ALWAYS been DRM. Where have you been?

[Brian9824]

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Originalmente postado por Brian9824:

Then ask the government to get North Korea, Russia, China, etc to follow the rules.

Nothing steam can do as they don't have the legal authority to shut the sites down. Steam does what they can but the big sites operate outside the US's legal jurisdiction

Same reason so many piracy sites still exist, they are operating out of countries that don't follow international law

Can Steam just end the shop and the skins? Sincere question. I never played it. If they can disable the feature, they can end the problem i would think.

No reason for them to, most people enjoy them, and some people stealing skins or running scams isn't a reason to deprive everyone of it.

If you don't want it use them, you don't have to. I don't use skins in any games I play.

It would be like banning all gift cards because some people do scams with them. Taking away something from everyone just because a few people are not responsible with their security isn't the answer

[Rob⛧Slayer]

Originalmente postado por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Originalmente postado por muckymucks:

No, it was Half-Life 2.

Hl2 released in November 2004 and Steam launched September 2003.

:nkCool:

Steam was in beta in 2003, with its official launch in 2004. So, he isn't wrong.

[Taebrythn]

Originalmente postado por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Originalmente postado por Shady Knights:

This was an excellent exposé.

The other 2 episodes are also well worth watching.

The focus was on CSGO, but there's a bunch of similar games with similar loot box mechanics within the Valve ecosystem. Additionally, the rampant cheating in such games is supercharged by such mechanics.

He just emerged as the fiercest advocate for consumers in the video game industry, but this community is so unhinged that I genuinely fear for his safety. Valve appears to take delight in how cult-like their fandom has become.

So no matter where you look there is cult like behavior. So politics, or police, or say a taylor swift fan. Maybe it's religious or something as stupid as magic the gathering. People are nutcases galore and if a site isn't in the usa there isn't much Valve can do. Shutting down site isn't as easy as you think.

when one closes 2-3 pop up to replace it. If Valve wanted to nip it out of existence it could easily just shut down the market. build a market inside csgo where items can no longer be sold for cash. all of these items have no monetary value so yes they could shut it down forever. I'm sure there are a lot of things they could possibly do.

Now if you think they can be held responsible for what a third party does they probably don't have much to stand on. Let's say a country cracks down on Gambling sites it won't stop it just it will move to another country or keep creating them. Even then i don't trust any of them. Giving your information to these sites really is like handing the keys to your home on a silver platter.

We have already seen scammers galore run them

[xBCxRangers]

Originalmente postado por Brian9824:

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Can Steam just end the shop and the skins? Sincere question. I never played it. If they can disable the feature, they can end the problem i would think.

No reason for them to, most people enjoy them,

Well, thank you, we know they enjoy them, but at what cost? Gambling is the cost. That is not the cost of what children do with gift cards.

Therefore, Valve can end the practice, and as the video claimed, they just don't want too.

So, that's on Valve, and if folks are naive enough to believe these companies can fix themselves in predatory habits without regulation, that will never happen

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originalmente postado por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Originalmente postado por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Hl2 released in November 2004 and Steam launched September 2003.

Steam was in beta in 2003, with its official launch in 2004. So, he isn't wrong.

Have a history lesson on me...

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam20

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Originalmente postado por Brian9824:

No reason for them to, most people enjoy them,

Well, thank you, we know they enjoy them, but at what cost? Gambling is the cost. That is not the cost of what children do with gift cards.

Therefore, Valve can end the practice, and as the video claimed, they just don't want too.

So, that's on Valve, and if folks are naive enough to believe these companies can fix themselves in predatory habits without regulation, that will never happen

Coffeezilla is a bit too advanced judging by this comment.

[xBCxRangers]

Originalmente postado por Boblin the Goblin:

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Well, thank you, we know they enjoy them, but at what cost? Gambling is the cost. That is not the cost of what children do with gift cards.

Therefore, Valve can end the practice, and as the video claimed, they just don't want too.

So, that's on Valve, and if folks are naive enough to believe these companies can fix themselves in predatory habits without regulation, that will never happen

Coffeezilla is a bit too advanced judging by this comment.

The question posed, is can Valve end the practice, by simply going to a rank unlock system for skins, like 99.9% of games do? The answer i received is "why, they enjoy it". And i get it. But at what cost? Gambling.

"Well should we take away a feature on a video game that children play that promotes these practicies, all because it's being abused"? Yes.

Do we end gift cards because they can be abused? We're not talking about the gift card industry, but one video game that is problematic in this regard that Valve owns.

[Rob⛧Slayer]

Originalmente postado por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Originalmente postado por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Steam was in beta in 2003, with its official launch in 2004. So, he isn't wrong.

Have a history lesson on me...

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam20

:nkCool:

Did you even read this? Steam was in beta in 2003, and this link confirms the official launch date in 2004, just as muckymucks suggested. The sweat and caveman brain is really getting out of control.

[Brian9824]

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Originalmente postado por Brian9824:

No reason for them to, most people enjoy them,

Well, thank you, we know they enjoy them, but at what cost? Gambling is the cost. That is not the cost of what children do with gift cards.

Therefore, Valve can end the practice, and as the video claimed, they just don't want too.

So, that's on Valve, and if folks are naive enough to believe these companies can fix themselves in predatory habits without regulation, that will never happen

Absolutely no cost to the majority of people.

You don't outlaw cars because some people race them.

You don't outlaw owning chickens or dogs because some people fight them.

You don't outlaw sex because some people get addicted.

You don't outlaw pizza because some people eat too much.

I'd you outlawed everything that people somewhere abuse there would be nothing left.

It's on people to be accountable for their own actions. Companies with predatory practices are already held accountable. Epic for instance just had to pay the largest FTC fine in history.

Valve on the other hand has no issues because despite what people like to claim there aren't issues and they comply with countries like France if they pass rules regarding micro transactions.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Originalmente postado por Boblin the Goblin:

Coffeezilla is a bit too advanced judging by this comment.

The question posed, is can Valve end the practice, by simply going to a rank unlock system for skins, like 99.9% of games do? The answer i received is "why, they enjoy it". And i get it. But at what cost? Gambling.

"Well should we take away a feature on a video game that children play that promotes these practicies, all because it's being abused"? Yes.

Do we end gift cards because they can be abused? We're not talking about the gift card industry, but one video game that is problematic in this regard that Valve owns.

Only proving my point.

[Brian9824]

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Originalmente postado por Boblin the Goblin:

Coffeezilla is a bit too advanced judging by this comment.

The question posed, is can Valve end the practice, by simply going to a rank unlock system for skins, like 99.9% of games do? The answer i received is "why, they enjoy it". And i get it. But at what cost? Gambling.

"Well should we take away a feature on a video game that children play that promotes these practicies, all because it's being abused"? Yes.

Do we end gift cards because they can be abused? We're not talking about the gift card industry, but one video game that is problematic in this regard that Valve owns.

The concept of an analogy might be a bit difficult for you to grasp, but its not one video game. There are many video games with the same structure and they break no laws and they are not abused by the overwhelming majority of players.

If you outlawed everything that someone abused you wouldn't have anything left. Every invention in history has or can be abused by people.

I mean by your logic guns should be outlawed far more then loot boxes as the destruction they cause is far more severe

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originalmente postado por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Originalmente postado por Taebrythn:

So no matter where you look there is cult like behavior. So politics, or police, or say a taylor swift fan. Maybe it's religious or something as stupid as magic the gathering. People are nutcases galore and if a site isn't in the usa there isn't much Valve can do. Shutting down site isn't as easy as you think.

when one closes 2-3 pop up to replace it. If Valve wanted to nip it out of existence it could easily just shut down the market. build a market inside csgo where items can no longer be sold for cash. all of these items have no monetary value so yes they could shut it down forever. I'm sure there are a lot of things they could possibly do.

Now if you think they can be held responsible for what a third party does they probably don't have much to stand on. Let's say a country cracks down on Gambling sites it won't stop it just it will move to another country or keep creating them. Even then i don't trust any of them. Giving your information to these sites really is like handing the keys to your home on a silver platter.

We have already seen scammers galore run them

I've never been a fan of the "everything is bad, so we shouldn't hold anyone accountable" mentality. Valve has the potential to make their games genuinely rewarding by removing cosmetics from paywalls and reintroducing them as in-game rewards for demonstrating actual skill and performance. Remember the times when games used to be like that? It brought a real sense of achievement and fairness.

It's frustrating to see people making excuses for Valve. They've been instrumental in mainstreaming numerous anti-consumer practices that the industry has since adopted. This shift has fundamentally altered how players interact with games, and, unfortunately, it's often for the worse. The integration of predatory monetization models has compromised the gaming experience, prioritizing profit over player enjoyment and fairness.

You think profit wasn't prioritized before?

[xBCxRangers]

Originalmente postado por Brian9824:

Originalmente postado por xBCxRangers:

Well, thank you, we know they enjoy them, but at what cost? Gambling is the cost. That is not the cost of what children do with gift cards.

Therefore, Valve can end the practice, and as the video claimed, they just don't want too.

So, that's on Valve, and if folks are naive enough to believe these companies can fix themselves in predatory habits without regulation, that will never happen

Absolutely no cost to the majority of people.

You don't outlaw cars because some people race them.

You don't outlaw owning chickens or dogs because some people fight them.

You don't outlaw sex because some people get addicted.

You don't outlaw pizza because some people eat too much.

I'd you outlawed everything that people somewhere abuse there would be nothing left.

It's on people to be accountable for their own actions. Companies with predatory practices are already held accountable. Epic for instance just had to pay the largest FTC fine in history.

Valve on the other hand has no issues because despite what people like to claim there aren't issues and they comply with countries like France if they pass rules regarding micro transactions.

Well it's no surprise you feel like this Brian, and i get it. You are a "Guardian of the Gaming Industry". I got it. However, it is a video game. Not the car industry. Not chickens or these other false narratives.

It's a game. And one, that seems to have a litany of issues, let alone this.

Therefore, fix the matter, or deal with regulators.

Regulators, unlike France, that i mentioned, that will have the tenacity to keep going after these folks until the issues stop.

A geezer my age sitting on one of those Regulatory bodies, is gonna say, "well we did something", and leave it there. That is wrong. You continue to go after them, until the practice ends, being it will become too costly in fines and bans for they to continue.