Keen Software House - Another Possible Scam

[mikebou]

fluxtorrent has rightly pointed out that my use of the word “scammers” was not constructive or conducive to positive discussion. Therefore, I have edited my original post to be more polite and constructive.

This is to Steam management:

I’d like to express my concerns regarding the upcoming pre-order for Space Engineers 2 and the developer, Keen Software House. While I understand that the game is currently in alpha, I feel it’s important to raise awareness about their track record with previous games and how that impacts customer trust.

Keen Software House has unfortunately abandoned several of their past projects, including games that were offered as pre-orders, leaving many players dissatisfied and with unresolved issues. This has led me to question whether it is fair for players to invest in a new title without more assurances about its completion and development.

While I understand that early access and alpha releases are common in the industry, I believe that companies with a history of unfinished games should be held to a higher standard when asking for pre-orders. I would like to request that Steam consider a more cautious approach when allowing pre-orders for new titles from developers with such a track record. Increased transparency and clearer communication regarding development milestones could help rebuild trust within the community.

As a concerned customer, I believe developers should be held accountable for their promises, and it’s my hope that Steam can help ensure a fairer process for all involved.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my feedback. I’m looking forward to seeing how the situation evolves and hope that Space Engineers 2 can meet the expectations of its community.

[Kargor]

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

39 games in 10 years, no one of value lost.

Even people with thousands of games are not given a say in Steam policies. That's just not how retail businesses work.

[joridiculous]

Escrito originalmente por d3str0y3r:

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

This is to the Steam management.

They do not read anything posted here...

Valve have employees specifically for community management, reading through the thousands of spam posts in these Official forums.

[mikebou]

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

"I call people scammers because I hold a grudge, and thats constructive and respectful"

I think there's been a misunderstanding. While I have been frustrated by my experiences with the company, I’ve never claimed that calling people “scammers” is constructive or respectful. My frustration stems from how I feel I’ve been mistreated, and my goal is to raise awareness about those issues. I understand that my tone may have been sharp at times, but it's more about expressing my concerns and hoping others can avoid similar disappointments.

The term “scammers” comes from my perception of Keen’s long history of failed projects and over-promised features that were not delivered, which has left me feeling misled. If anything in my posts was unclear or seemed to suggest otherwise, I apologize for that. My intention now is to encourage open dialogue and constructive criticism, not to attack anyone personally.

[Mad Scientist]

1. It's EARLY ACCESS
2. It's "Coming Soon"

Coming Jan 27, 2025.
This game plans to unlock in approximately 5 weeks

If you're not happy about where it is currently, wait for its "Full Release" status.

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

Oh and for reference, the OP was permabanned from the SE community for his toxicity, this is why he's on his crusade. I was one of the many who rejoiced.

Second time today this seems like the ATS&SCS, CoH3&Relic situations all over again. One individual, for years.
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/2299597830372159810/

[mikebou]

Hi fluxtorrent,

Thank you for pointing that out. I recognize that my earlier choice of words wasn’t constructive, and I’ve since revised my original post to reflect a more respectful and positive tone. I appreciate the feedback and understand that maintaining a productive conversation is important.

I hope the updated post helps clarify my concerns in a way that fosters better dialogue and mutual understanding.

[Mad Scientist]

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

Hi fluxtorrent,

Thank you for pointing that out. I recognize that my earlier choice of words wasn’t constructive, and I’ve since revised my original post to reflect a more respectful and positive tone. I appreciate the feedback and understand that maintaining a productive conversation is important.

I hope the updated post helps clarify my concerns in a way that fosters better dialogue and mutual understanding.

That was detected as 100% AI generated. So was the post before
We can have a neutral to good discussion, but it's always best to do so with ones own words.

[Chika Ogiue]

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

SNIP

Two generated paragraphs that say nothing and miss the point. Not to mention are completely hypocritical. You don't value anyone's opinion enough to actually talk with us.

[mikebou]

Escrito originalmente por Mad Scientist:

1. It's EARLY ACCESS
2. It's "Coming Soon"

Coming Jan 27, 2025.
This game plans to unlock in approximately 5 weeks

If you're not happy about where it is currently, wait for its "Full Release" status.

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

Oh and for reference, the OP was permabanned from the SE community for his toxicity, this is why he's on his crusade. I was one of the many who rejoiced.

Second time today this seems like the ATS&SCS, CoH3&Relic situations all over again. One individual, for years.
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/2299597830372159810/

I understand that Space Engineers 2 is in Early Access and is still in development, and I respect that the full release is planned for January 2025. My concerns, however, are more about the track record of the developer, Keen Software House, and how their previous projects have been handled. I’m not demanding that they rush the game, but rather, I want to raise awareness about the history of unfinished games and how that impacts consumer trust.

As for my previous actions in the SE community, I acknowledge that I was banned for being overly toxic, and I take full responsibility for that. I’m working on being more constructive now, and my goal is to provide feedback that could help improve the gaming industry for everyone, not to attack individuals or companies.

I understand that people may have differing opinions on this, and I’m open to discussing it respectfully. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I hope we can keep the conversation productive.

[mikebou]

Escrito originalmente por Mad Scientist:

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

Hi fluxtorrent,

Thank you for pointing that out. I recognize that my earlier choice of words wasn’t constructive, and I’ve since revised my original post to reflect a more respectful and positive tone. I appreciate the feedback and understand that maintaining a productive conversation is important.

I hope the updated post helps clarify my concerns in a way that fosters better dialogue and mutual understanding.

That was detected as 100% AI generated. So was the post before :cozycastondeath:
We can have a neutral to good discussion, but it's always best to do so with ones own words.

Hi Mad Scientist,

I understand your concerns about using AI-generated text. I’ve been trying to incorporate constructive feedback and improve how I express my thoughts, and sometimes I’ve used tools to help refine my responses. That said, I recognize the importance of speaking in my own voice and will make a conscious effort to do so moving forward.

I appreciate the value of a discussion based on personal perspectives, and I hope we can continue the conversation in a more productive direction.

[Mad Scientist]

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

(snip)

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

(snip)

Doing things like AI generating replies and posts isn't going to help any claim especially when it lacks most information. If anything ai content is not people discussing, its a program someone used to generate replies, so it comes across as Spam.

[mikebou]

Escrito originalmente por Chika Ogiue:

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

SNIP

Two generated paragraphs that say nothing and miss the point. Not to mention are completely hypocritical. You don't value anyone's opinion enough to actually talk with us.

Hey Chika,

I get why you’re concerned about using AI here, but just to be clear, all of these are my thoughts. I use AI to help express myself more clearly, but I always make sure the final words are my own. If something doesn’t sound right, I adjust it until it does.

I’m just trying to keep things constructive and move forward with more positive conversations. Hope we can get there.

[mikebou]

Escrito originalmente por Mad Scientist:

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

(snip)

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

(snip)

Doing things like AI generating replies and posts isn't going to help any claim especially when it lacks most information. If anything ai content is not people discussing, its a program someone used to generate replies, so it comes across as Spam. :smokeybear:

Hey Mad Scientist,

I get what you're saying, but let’s clear this up. I use AI to help me organize and clarify my thoughts, but the ideas and opinions are still mine. If something doesn’t make sense or feels off, I’ll adjust it—no problem.

I know I’ve been labeled toxic before, and I’m trying to do things differently now. I’m focused on having more productive, respectful discussions moving forward, not just throwing out random posts or spamming.

Hope that clears things up.

[Crazy Tiger]

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Ah, ad hominem attacks when people disagree. Quelle surprise.

I'm not belittling you in any way, certainly don't see how. I'm also not accepting "bad theics", but I don't put value in "ethics" that internet people pretend to have anyway. After all, people just use the word "ethics" when they in reality mean "I don't like it", but of course "ethics" sounds better.

You are making a threat by saying you'll go elsewhere if they don't change things. Your "natural consequences" are uttered in a threat form. Though it matters 0% whether you keep using Steam or not, Valve won't notice.

Still doesn't change that a company doesn't have to sever ties with a publisher just because you don't like them, though.

And again your purview of what a threat is, is not accurate. Try to understand consequences vs threat. If I said I'd take legal action, that's a threat. If I feel that I can no longer shop somewhere and state that, that's a consequence. And no, Valve won't notice. That statement was not meant to dissuade.
You did try to belittle me by trying to suggest that an apparent threat was hollow or empty. Tell me, what was your goal with this statement if it was not to belittle.
I don't attack those that disagree with me. I attack how they disagree.
Your view of ethics is disturbing at best. It's a sign that society no longer values ethics in business. It used to be valued. Obviously I'm in the minority now. But I don't move with a crowd just because they no longer value something good.

Again, I wasn't belittling you. Many people do the "change this or I'll shop elsewhere" thinking it has actual meaning for the store, when it doesn't. I'm just making sure people understand that they're nothing but a drop in an ocean in that regard.

And yes, it's still a threat. You issue the "consequence" as the follow up of a threat.

You have no idea about my view of ethics. They might be different of you own, but that doesn't mean they're "disturbing". The way you respond now, that's an example of "disturbing ethics", though.

I value good things. Just because a company makes bad games, doesn't mean they should be booted, though. It's preposterous to think that a store shouldn't sell things just because you don't like it.

You're just lashing out because you have buyers remorse, that's all.

[mikebou]

Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

And again your purview of what a threat is, is not accurate. Try to understand consequences vs threat. If I said I'd take legal action, that's a threat. If I feel that I can no longer shop somewhere and state that, that's a consequence. And no, Valve won't notice. That statement was not meant to dissuade.
You did try to belittle me by trying to suggest that an apparent threat was hollow or empty. Tell me, what was your goal with this statement if it was not to belittle.
I don't attack those that disagree with me. I attack how they disagree.
Your view of ethics is disturbing at best. It's a sign that society no longer values ethics in business. It used to be valued. Obviously I'm in the minority now. But I don't move with a crowd just because they no longer value something good.

Again, I wasn't belittling you. Many people do the "change this or I'll shop elsewhere" thinking it has actual meaning for the store, when it doesn't. I'm just making sure people understand that they're nothing but a drop in an ocean in that regard.

And yes, it's still a threat. You issue the "consequence" as the follow up of a threat.

You have no idea about my view of ethics. They might be different of you own, but that doesn't mean they're "disturbing". The way you respond now, that's an example of "disturbing ethics", though.

I value good things. Just because a company makes bad games, doesn't mean they should be booted, though. It's preposterous to think that a store shouldn't sell things just because you don't like it.

You're just lashing out because you have buyers remorse, that's all.

Hey Crazy Tiger,

I see where you're coming from, but let’s clear up some things. When I mentioned not wanting to shop somewhere, it wasn’t to threaten, it’s simply stating a consequence of my decision. If I feel like a company has acted in a way that doesn’t align with my values, I’ll speak on it—doesn’t mean they’ll notice or care, but that’s my choice.

As for your take on my ethics, I’m not attacking anyone’s personal views. It’s just that ethics in business used to mean something different. It used to be about accountability. Now, it feels like it’s more about cutting corners and ignoring customer concerns. If that makes me “out of step” with the crowd, so be it.

And no, it’s not buyer’s remorse. It’s about standing up for what I think is right. I’ve been burned before and that’s why I’m speaking out. If you don’t agree with me, that’s fine, but I’m not going to back down on how I feel.

[Crazy Tiger]

Escrito originalmente por mikebou:

Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Again, I wasn't belittling you. Many people do the "change this or I'll shop elsewhere" thinking it has actual meaning for the store, when it doesn't. I'm just making sure people understand that they're nothing but a drop in an ocean in that regard.

And yes, it's still a threat. You issue the "consequence" as the follow up of a threat.

You have no idea about my view of ethics. They might be different of you own, but that doesn't mean they're "disturbing". The way you respond now, that's an example of "disturbing ethics", though.

I value good things. Just because a company makes bad games, doesn't mean they should be booted, though. It's preposterous to think that a store shouldn't sell things just because you don't like it.

You're just lashing out because you have buyers remorse, that's all.

Hey Crazy Tiger,

I see where you're coming from, but let’s clear up some things. When I mentioned not wanting to shop somewhere, it wasn’t to threaten, it’s simply stating a consequence of my decision. If I feel like a company has acted in a way that doesn’t align with my values, I’ll speak on it—doesn’t mean they’ll notice or care, but that’s my choice.

As for your take on my ethics, I’m not attacking anyone’s personal views. It’s just that ethics in business used to mean something different. It used to be about accountability. Now, it feels like it’s more about cutting corners and ignoring customer concerns. If that makes me “out of step” with the crowd, so be it.

And no, it’s not buyer’s remorse. It’s about standing up for what I think is right. I’ve been burned before and that’s why I’m speaking out. If you don’t agree with me, that’s fine, but I’m not going to back down on how I feel.

I'm going to add that I'm an autistic person in a rough period. So my answers probably aren't the best formulated in current times. Maybe even harsh. Apologies for that, I should try to pay more attention to it.

Personally I haven't really noticed a change in business ethics themselves in the past decades. But I have noticed a trend in how consumers want to shift their own responsibilities and accountabilities away from themselves. Simply put, many customers severely overestimate their own value when using stores like Steam.
If you think that in the past is was about "customer concerns", I have a bridge to sell ya. Perhaps even two. No, customer concerns only have been the primary concern in marketing slogans.

The reason I talk about "ethics" the way I do is because "ethics", just like "morals", are subjective to begin with. They're different for people depending on where they grew up, how they grew up, the area they live, the people they hang out with, etc. Unlike what people like to think, talking about "ethics" isn't a strong, objective argument.

I've been burned on bad products before. But it's my own choice to purchase something, my responsibility. I alone am accountable for that.
You're purchasing Early Access games. They're games that might or might not change, they might even not finish development. And since it's the developer who decides when development is ended, that's entirely on them. You know that beforehand. If a developer has a track record of underdelivering, people will stop buying their games. Though Space Engineers seems to be doing wuite fine.

I honestly don't see why they should be booted.