Do the DEI developers of games such as concord and veilguard still have an audience?

[sick duck]

Concord is an infamous failure, and veilguard didn't do badly but it was very far away from breaking any sales records. I look at social media groups that built up 10+ million subscribers like IGN and ther videos today have hardly any attention. Kotaku was a titan of games media too, and barely anyone looks at anymore.

The only reason I am asking about this is that modern year games aren't my main focus for gaming anymore. None of my past 5 games were developed in the 2020s. I am not opposed to DEI in principle, and I recognize that as filled to the brim as veilguard was with the stuff, I probably would have disliked it for a whole lot of reasons related to gameplay and the lack of continuity it had with the dragon age series from an artistic and lore point of view.

[The nameless Gamer]

Цитата допису D. Flame:

Цитата допису The nameless Gamer:

At the end of the day, ideology doesn't matter, but whether the game is good or bad. Do you think people notice the jabs at unchecked capitalism Metal Gear Solid and the early Fallout games are taking? No, because the games are good. Do people care about a non-white playable character in GTA III and V? No, because the games are popular and good enough. Why does nobody care about Bridget and Testament in Guilty Gear Strive? Because the game is poplar and good enough. If the game is good, people DON'T care about "woke" or "ideology" or "checklists". And frankly, I don't care about them and would like to stop pointless bickering around those to STOP. It's needless community hub pollution.

Testament was never gay or anything similar before the newer games. He was just an edgy hot topic looking character. They changed his character later. No one cared because there was nothing to care about. He was just a gear that protected Dizzy.

No one was upset about Bridget because he didn't feel like a forced mark on a checklist. He felt natural and had a real personality.

Unlike the modern tokenism characters, who's only personality is, "Hello, my name is 'X,' and I am {insert checklist item here}."

The fact that you are trying to defend tokenism is extremely sad and very telling.

https://www.wordnik.com/words/tokenism

noun The policy of making only a perfunctory effort or symbolic gesture toward the accomplishment of a goal, such as racial integration.

noun The practice of hiring or appointing a token number of people from underrepresented groups in order to deflect criticism or comply with affirmative action rules.

noun A policy of formally complying with efforts to achieve a goal by making small, token gestures; especially to hire a minimal number of ethnically diverse or disadvantaged people

I haven't played a single game with what you're trying to get at. And if Dragon Age Veilguard is your ONLY example, that makes it an exception and is the flaw of ONE game you can't really apply to others.

[Haruspex]

Цитата допису Tito Shivan:

Because it's a post-hoc attribute. Only applied to games accused of being 'woke' who failed.
Space Marine 2 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Baldurs Gate 3 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Overwatch was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Marvel is 'woke'. Marvel's Rivals didn't go broke.

While I agree that the argument has gotten a little out of hand and it really isn't so black and white, I do see this from time to time.

First off, Space Marine 2 is an example of a recent game that did nothing to kowtow to the demands of DEI. While Warhammer itself has been the source of some discourse, particularly surrounding the TV show and something about female soldiers, Space Marine 2 just stuck to what works and it was developed with no consideration for whether it's diverse, equitable, or inclusive.

Marvel itself has been the source of a lot of discourse too, particularly Disney's handling of the property and it's implementation of DEI principles when creating movies. Marvel Rivals though was developed under license by a Chinese company who couldn't care less if it was diverse, equitable, and inclusive.

Baldur's Gate 3 is one example of a game with "woke" elements that was a success. I often use it as an example of why "get woke go broke" isn't a 100% hard and fast rule. Sometimes, rarely, the quality of a game outshines anything politically objectionable.

Overwatch? I don't know about that one. I have no opinion.

Anti-woke folks are often accused of cherry-picking the failures while ignoring the successes. However I've personally noticed that any successful game deemed "woke" is almost universally part of a franchise and series where previous games in that series were not "woke". Any high-profile original game with wokeness such as Concord, Dustborn, Flintlock, Unknown 9 Awakening, and so on are almost universally failures. Also many gamers have become hyper-sensitive to possible wokeness to where even being part of a long-running and successful franchise isn't a guarantee anymore.

It doesn't help that all the discourse has muddied the waters of what is "woke" and what isn't. To some people "woke" means "anything I don't like", and their continued whining just adds fuel to the whole dumpster fire. Some games are also more woke than others, and certain amounts of wokeness gets ignored if the rest of the game is good. For example, Helldivers 2 is often cited as an anti-woke game, but you pick "body type A" and "body type B" in character creation instead of male and female, which is considered a woke design decision.

Personally I don't think "wokeness" is the sole criteria by which to judge a game necessarily, and the whole issue is complex and multi-faceted. I do believe that if you are making decisions when designing a game whether it's diverse, equitable, or inclusive, while your heart might be in a good place, you're probably doing the game more harm than good. Ultimately, you're making a product, and the customer is always right in matters of taste.

[Mad Scientist]

Цитата допису Haruspex:

However I've personally noticed that any successful game deemed "woke" is almost universally part of a franchise and series where previous games in that series were not "woke".

Like film, tv, comics, games etc; detrimental people get within well-established things and tend to begin doing damage from within. There's a reason why such things are miserable failures when trying when making things themselves rather than becoming parasitic. People with a heavy bias tend to intentionally ignore that fact to try championing "success", but we've seen modern day stuff slowly suffer massive declines when it continues with more insertion and less original material.

[VXGod]

Hi

[Realigo Actual]

I sincerely lament how Veilguard got sabotaged. People made it sound like it was practically developed by Sweetz Beebi. After playing it, I can say that, yes, there is some woke-ass crap in the game, but it's pretty rare and these types of games were always known for having stuff like that.

It's actually pretty good with some awesome art direction. People's heads are weirdly big. That one is true. The voice acting can be a bit rough, also true, but it's no worse than the standard that was alive in the games 10 years ago.

Veilguard got done dirty and youtube is BS fountain.

[(banned)]

Цитата допису ReBoot:

Цитата допису Sozin:

What does woke mean

As of currently, anything going against fragile masculinity. Gay people (unless it's lesbain porn) in media would be an example. Pronoun selection in videogames is anothrer. Apparently, fragile masculinity can't deal with even an OPTION (that other people may use) to play as someone fragile masculinity is afraid of being itself.

That tracks, what if having difficulty modes in video games is apparently against Gamers(tm), since apparently the "artistic vision" of developers need to be respected. Even when developers themselves ADD the difficulty modes out of CHOICE.

[Nikonos]

Цитата допису Sozin:

What does woke mean

Forced injection of silly politics nobody asked for.

[AustrAlien2010]

Цитата допису Nikonos:

Цитата допису Sozin:

What does woke mean

Forced injection of silly politics nobody asked for.

It's all internet conspiracy theories. Flat Earth, Bigfoot spam to sell advertisements to gamers and whatnot.

Woke simply is the past participle of wake.

[Nikonos]

Цитата допису AustrAlien2010:

Цитата допису Nikonos:

Forced injection of silly politics nobody asked for.

It's all internet conspiracy theories. Flat Earth, Bigfoot spam to sell advertisements to gamers and whatnot.

Woke simply is the past participle of wake.

Not everything is a "internet conspiracy theory", mate.

[AustrAlien2010]

Well, it is to me. Gaming websites simply lack the finesse of discussing game-mechanisms as a professional. So instead they make stuff up such as things being “Woke” to stir up controversies to receive clicks on their websites and channels.

I doubt this term will withstand the scholarly scrutiny our editors impose upon it.

[Zefar]

Цитата допису Tito Shivan:

Your hard evidence amounts to compare non-comparable examples.

Цитата допису -OrLoK- Слава Україн:

The "go woke go btoke" fallacy is proved to be paper thin at best.

Because it's a post-hoc attribute. Only applied to games accused of being 'woke' who failed.
Space Marine 2 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Baldurs Gate 3 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Overwatch was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Marvel is 'woke'. Marvel's Rivals didn't go broke.

It all can be resumed as:
"If it's good it can't be woke, even if it is woke it's not woke. And if it's bad it has to be bad because it's woke, even if it's not woke it's still bad because it's woke."

Come on man, you sure you can't spot the difference?

What I've seen from Space Marine 2 is that it's faithful to Warhammer40k. The only thing that has come up is the female custodes which is a lore breaking thing. But it hasn't been put into the game yet. So the current game is just Warhammer40k as it is. That is why it's popular. Not sure what other "woke" stuff is in it.


Baldurs Gate 3 is a classical western RPG where they let you do a ton of stuff. Featuring gay or lesbian isn't enough for a game to be woke unless they change an established character into a gay/lesbian character. It isn't forced in Baldurs Gate 3. It is natural.


Overwatch top porn sites. People love those models a bit too much. The game does have really good character design. Also the gameplay is good.
It was honestly much later into Overwatch life time when the team started to push woke stuff. Such as making Soldier 76 gay. I bet a lot of players are not aware of this change either because they don't read twitter and alike. But fans did the same thing with Angela and Pharah, then we have Widowmaker and Tracer.
Overwatch also doesn't feature much story related content in the game so people are just picking their character and playing it.


Marvel Rivals is far from woke. They actually give the characters a Super Hero body. Even the women in it. Something current day marvel hate to do.


But DEI and Woke has a big effect on a game if it's too much. Story and character design can make or break a game. It just so happens that heavily DEI games have some of the worst story and character design out there.

We can compare this to a game that was seen as crap from the very start. Redfall. It had an hilariously bad gameplay reveal by IGN. It still had over 6000 players at launch. It also cost $70 at launch.
So even with such a poor launch it still blew Concord out of the water with their numbers. ¨

Concord was actually a fully functional game. Redfall was not.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Цитата допису Zefar:

Цитата допису Tito Shivan:

Your hard evidence amounts to compare non-comparable examples.


Because it's a post-hoc attribute. Only applied to games accused of being 'woke' who failed.
Space Marine 2 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Baldurs Gate 3 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Overwatch was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Marvel is 'woke'. Marvel's Rivals didn't go broke.

It all can be resumed as:
"If it's good it can't be woke, even if it is woke it's not woke. And if it's bad it has to be bad because it's woke, even if it's not woke it's still bad because it's woke."

Come on man, you sure you can't spot the difference?

What I've seen from Space Marine 2 is that it's faithful to Warhammer40k. The only thing that has come up is the female custodes which is a lore breaking thing. But it hasn't been put into the game yet. So the current game is just Warhammer40k as it is. That is why it's popular. Not sure what other "woke" stuff is in it.
.

The "anti-woke" crowd quite literally cried over Space Marine 2 "going to be woke trash" 6+ months before its release due to Ashley Cooper being part of the writing team.

Then, the goalposts moved.

C'mon now, don't be willfully ignorant to the actions of people in the movement you're following just because it's inconvenient. Makes the v-mods look bad.

[King of Games]

Цитата допису Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Then, the goalposts moved.

yeah that's how you win at football.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Цитата допису King of Games:

Цитата допису Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Then, the goalposts moved.

yeah that's how you win at football.

You...don't move the goals at either variations of football....

[inpurpleshadows]

Цитата допису Leonardo Da Pinchi:

The "anti-woke" crowd quite literally cried over Space Marine 2 "going to be woke trash" 6+ months before its release due to Ashley Cooper being part of the writing team.

Yeah, I'm still kind of confused over why people threw such a fuss over Ashley Cooper. I don't know who Cooper is or what he/she did to make some gamers angry, but it didn't really impact my experience with Space Marine 2 because I don't pay attention to developer gossip. Like, did Cooper take the game out back and mercilessly shoot it.