Do the DEI developers of games such as concord and veilguard still have an audience?

[sick duck]

Concord is an infamous failure, and veilguard didn't do badly but it was very far away from breaking any sales records. I look at social media groups that built up 10+ million subscribers like IGN and ther videos today have hardly any attention. Kotaku was a titan of games media too, and barely anyone looks at anymore.

The only reason I am asking about this is that modern year games aren't my main focus for gaming anymore. None of my past 5 games were developed in the 2020s. I am not opposed to DEI in principle, and I recognize that as filled to the brim as veilguard was with the stuff, I probably would have disliked it for a whole lot of reasons related to gameplay and the lack of continuity it had with the dragon age series from an artistic and lore point of view.

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

The "go woke go btoke" fallacy is proved to be paper thin at best.

Almost every company and organisation has rules which enforce what some would call "DEI" or "woke" via HR and other depts, and have for decades.

All those companies are fine, same with 99pc of games.

Just because a game doesn't do well or falls flat on its face is rarely to do with its political bias.

And the Conservatives know that but really don't want anyone else to know as it doesn't add to their little battlescape of the culture war.

[D. Flame]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von -OrLoK- Слава Україн:

The "go woke go btoke" fallacy is proved to be paper thin at best.

Almost every company and organisation has rules which enforce what some would call "DEI" or "woke" via HR and other depts, and have for decades.

All those companies are fine, same with 99pc of games.

Just because a game doesn't do well or falls flat on its face is rarely to do with its political bias.

And the Conservatives know that but really don't want anyone else to know as it doesn't add to their little battlescape of the culture war.

That's not true.

DEI means diversity, EQUITY, and inclusion.

Equity and Equality do not mean the same thing.

Equality means equal rights and opportunities. No one is opposed to this.

Equity means equal outcomes. It is racism and sexism made into official policy. It says crap like "you don't have enough women working here, so you can not hire any men for that open position."

They are not the same, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise, and I am saying this as someone who is left-leaning. Equality is a good thing, but the modern take on Equity is just thinly-veiled discrimination. This is why they quietly transitioned from using the term Equality to using the term Equity.

[Tito Shivan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Every single piece of hard evidence proves that you are wrong, so you just start making up fiction in your head to justify your agenda instead.

Your hard evidence amounts to compare non-comparable examples.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von -OrLoK- Слава Україн:

The "go woke go btoke" fallacy is proved to be paper thin at best.

Because it's a post-hoc attribute. Only applied to games accused of being 'woke' who failed.
Space Marine 2 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Baldurs Gate 3 was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Overwatch was 'woke'. It didn't go broke.
Marvel is 'woke'. Marvel's Rivals didn't go broke.

It all can be resumed as:
"If it's good it can't be woke, even if it is woke it's not woke. And if it's bad it has to be bad because it's woke, even if it's not woke it's still bad because it's woke."

[D. Flame]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tito Shivan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Every single piece of hard evidence proves that you are wrong, so you just start making up fiction in your head to justify your agenda instead.

Your hard evidence amounts to compare non-comparable examples.

Saints Row vs Saints Row is pretty damn comparable.

Even if it wasn't a 1to1 (which it is), it is still a lot more comparable than your made-up, agenda-driven fan fiction.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tito Shivan:

Marvel is 'woke'. Marvel's Rivals didn't go broke.

In what universe is Marvel Rivals considered woke? How did you come to this conclusion?

One of the main tenants of the modern woke movement is covering up women, making them less attractive, and quote, "fighting against the male gaze." Meanwhile in Marvel Rivals, you got women getting a sun tan on their cheeks mid match.

Yes, some of the Marvel movies (and a lot of the modern comics) are woke, but that doesn't mean every single Marvel property is woke.

Hell, you already have outrage mobs throwing fits over the new Malice costume in Marvel Rivals, and that is even with it being toned down from its original comic book design.

[SDriver]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The nameless Gamer:

5) "Concord" - failed because it was competing with four free to play shooters, had nothing to justify a price tag and was excluding over 170 countries as audience due to a mandatory PSN account. "DEI" had nothing to do with its failure.

Nononono 177 countries is only when americans are too lazy to create an account for ONLINE LIVE SERVICE game. Did you really think they gave a s**t that Sao Tome & Principe can't buy and play the game?
When it's about Concord, apparently 100% reason of flop is WOKE, nothing else. Muh 177 countries suddenly went outta window.

[D. Flame]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SDriver:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The nameless Gamer:

5) "Concord" - failed because it was competing with four free to play shooters, had nothing to justify a price tag and was excluding over 170 countries as audience due to a mandatory PSN account. "DEI" had nothing to do with its failure.

Nononono 177 countries is only when americans are too lazy to create an account for ONLINE LIVE SERVICE game. Did you really think they gave a s**t that Sao Tome & Principe can't make PSN account?
When it's about Concord, 100% reason of flop is WOKE, nothing else. Muh 177 countries suddenly went outta window.

The free Concord Beta has less than 3K peak players, and I do not believe that the beta required a PSN account.

"Ghosts of Tsushima: Directors Cut" requires a PSN account and has an all time peak of over 77K.

"God of War Ragnarök" requires a PSN account and has an all time peak of almost 36K.

[Crazy Tiger]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tito Shivan:

It all can be resumed as:
"If it's good it can't be woke, even if it is woke it's not woke. And if it's bad it has to be bad because it's woke, even if it's not woke it's still bad because it's woke."

Agreed. I do enjoy how people are bending themselves in their attempts to go around that, though.

[RiO]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Chompman:

The entire "dei" thing had nothing to do with any game failures as it's about how fun the game is more then anything.

Let's nuance that opening statement a bit, because the entire DEI thing most definitely did have something to do with game failures. Exactly because it's about how fun the game is, more than anything.

There are plenty of examples of games labeled 'woke' that are still plenty fun.
But the flops are mostly flops for a few repeating reasons; and it's not that they decided to lean hard into the political and social agenda messaging at the cost of the game's fun. It's usually that they thought they could get away with delivering a mediocre game, because it has all the right moral messaging. Or that the entire hiring and staffing procedure is a mess that has to meet equity quotas, such that half the development team consists of people that are barely (if even that) qualified to do the job and the end result is a mediocre and buggy game.

[Tito Shivan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Saints Row vs Saints Row is pretty damn comparable.

You're comparing a product released at the 'peak' of the developer with a remake made from the remnants of both a studio and an IP bought up after the studio going down, barely released without any prior marketing.

The Saint Row's remake was dead ever since the days of Gat Out of Hell. But just like happens with your obsession with Concord you're conflating to a single point (being woke) what's a far more complex picture for a game's failure.

The only thing both products have in common is the name.

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

I don't see how "woke" is capable of breaking a game if the game loop is solid.

Balders Gate for example is, to many "woke" but is incredibly successful.

if i played Call of Duty but the lead happened to be gay or trans etc, other than a "muh immersion" it wouldn't affect its wild popularity.

games that are poorly made or positioned badly dont do well not games that are inclusive.

[Crazy Tiger]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tito Shivan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Saints Row vs Saints Row is pretty damn comparable.

You're comparing a product released at the 'peak' of the developer with a remake made from the remnants of both a studio and an IP bought up after the studio going down, barely released without any prior marketing.

The Saint Row's remake was dead ever since the days of Gat Out of Hell. But just like happens with your obsession with Concord you're conflating to a single point (being woke) what's a far more complex picture for a game's failure.

The only thing both products have in common is the name.

It all does seem to be turning into "get off my lawn" and "we always did it like that", so to speak. People unable to understand that just because things were as they were in the past doesn't mean they were ok back then. And that deciding factors of the past aren't deciding factors of today anymore.

Basically people who think the world stops just because they want it.

[The nameless Gamer]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SDriver:

Nononono 177 countries is only when americans are too lazy to create an account for ONLINE LIVE SERVICE game. Did you really think they gave a s**t that Sao Tome & Principe can't make PSN account?
When it's about Concord, 100% reason of flop is WOKE, nothing else. Muh 177 countries suddenly went outta window.

The free Concord Beta has less than 3K peak players, and I do not believe that the beta required a PSN account.

"Ghosts of Tsushima: Directors Cut" requires a PSN account and has an all time peak of over 77K.

"God of War Ragnarök" requires a PSN account and has an all time peak of almost 36K.

Oh, but when I or anybody else uses "I believe", you immediately dismiss it. Why should YOUR belief be more credible? The game never appeared in my store feed, so it was highly likely that the beta was PSN-only as well (I live in a country without PSN coverage). I never saw the game in my Discovery Queue, it wasn't in the New/Upcoming releases tabs... And since Helldivers II doesn't appear on my store pages along with God of War Ragnarök and other PSN-only games, I'm pretty certain that it was a PSN-exclusive from the start.

[D. Flame]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tito Shivan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Saints Row vs Saints Row is pretty damn comparable.

You're comparing a product released at the 'peak' of the developer with a remake made from the remnants of both a studio and an IP bought up after the studio going down, barely released without any prior marketing.

The Saint Row's remake was dead ever since the days of Gat Out of Hell. But just like happens with your obsession with Concord you're conflating to a single point (being woke) what's a far more complex picture for a game's failure.

The only thing both products have in common is the name.

Gat Out of Hell was a glorified DLC for Saints Row 4. The entire thing lasted less than 4 hours, so yes, it didn't do great. Meanwhile, SR4 had an all time peak of over 42K. The garbage remake had an all time peak of 4,147. Even Gat out of Hell did better than than with 5827, and again, it was a glorified DLC.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The nameless Gamer:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

The free Concord Beta has less than 3K peak players, and I do not believe that the beta required a PSN account.

"Ghosts of Tsushima: Directors Cut" requires a PSN account and has an all time peak of over 77K.

"God of War Ragnarök" requires a PSN account and has an all time peak of almost 36K.

Oh, but when I or anybody else uses "I believe", you immediately dismiss it. Why should YOUR belief be more credible? The game never appeared in my store feed, so it was highly likely that the beta was PSN-only as well (I live in a country without PSN coverage). I never saw the game in my Discovery Queue, it wasn't in the New/Upcoming releases tabs... And since Helldivers II doesn't appear on my store pages along with God of War Ragnarök and other PSN-only games, I'm pretty certain that it was a PSN-exclusive from the start.

Fair enough, but even if it did require a PSN account, which is possible, it was still free, and I have show other PSN required games getting in the 30 to 40 thousand people playing all at once on Steam, despite being full price, whereas the free beta for Concord could not even break 3K.

[The nameless Gamer]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The nameless Gamer:

Oh, but when I or anybody else uses "I believe", you immediately dismiss it. Why should YOUR belief be more credible? The game never appeared in my store feed, so it was highly likely that the beta was PSN-only as well (I live in a country without PSN coverage). I never saw the game in my Discovery Queue, it wasn't in the New/Upcoming releases tabs... And since Helldivers II doesn't appear on my store pages along with God of War Ragnarök and other PSN-only games, I'm pretty certain that it was a PSN-exclusive from the start.

Fair enough, but even if it did require a PSN account, which is possible, it was still free, and I have show other PSN required games getting in the 30 to 40 thousand people playing all at once on Steam, despite being full price, whereas the free beta for Concord could not even break 3K.

At the end of the day, ideology doesn't matter, but whether the game is good or bad. Do you think people notice the jabs at unchecked capitalism Metal Gear Solid and the early Fallout games are taking? No, because the games are good. Do people care about a non-white playable character in GTA III and V? No, because the games are popular and good enough. Why does nobody care about Bridget and Testament in Guilty Gear Strive? Because the game is poplar and good enough. If the game is good, people DON'T care about "woke" or "ideology" or "checklists". And frankly, I don't care about them and would like to stop pointless bickering around those to STOP. It's needless community hub pollution.

[D. Flame]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The nameless Gamer:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von D. Flame:

Fair enough, but even if it did require a PSN account, which is possible, it was still free, and I have show other PSN required games getting in the 30 to 40 thousand people playing all at once on Steam, despite being full price, whereas the free beta for Concord could not even break 3K.

At the end of the day, ideology doesn't matter, but whether the game is good or bad. Do you think people notice the jabs at unchecked capitalism Metal Gear Solid and the early Fallout games are taking? No, because the games are good. Do people care about a non-white playable character in GTA III and V? No, because the games are popular and good enough. Why does nobody care about Bridget and Testament in Guilty Gear Strive? Because the game is poplar and good enough. If the game is good, people DON'T care about "woke" or "ideology" or "checklists". And frankly, I don't care about them and would like to stop pointless bickering around those to STOP. It's needless community hub pollution.

Testament was never gay or anything similar before the newer games. He was just an edgy hot topic looking character. They changed his character later. No one cared because there was nothing to care about. He was just a gear that protected Dizzy.

No one was upset about Bridget because he didn't feel like a forced mark on a checklist. He felt natural and had a real personality.

Unlike the modern tokenism characters, who's only personality is, "Hello, my name is 'X,' and I am {insert checklist item here}."

The fact that you are trying to defend tokenism is extremely sad and very telling.

https://www.wordnik.com/words/tokenism

noun The policy of making only a perfunctory effort or symbolic gesture toward the accomplishment of a goal, such as racial integration.

noun The practice of hiring or appointing a token number of people from underrepresented groups in order to deflect criticism or comply with affirmative action rules.

noun A policy of formally complying with efforts to achieve a goal by making small, token gestures; especially to hire a minimal number of ethnically diverse or disadvantaged people