Windows 7 Support Ending - Refunding my Entire Library?

[InfernusMatrix]

So let me get this straight, my games that run fine on Windows 7 I can no longer access past a certain point? If this is the case I will be talking to my bank and refunding my entire games library. I have zero interest in upgrading my hardware or Operating system.

Does this not violate consumer or anti-trust laws?

When I started using Steam I never agreed for them to control what hardware and operating system I can use, especially considering all of the games I play support Windows 7.

[XPho3nixRisingX]

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Not worth wasting my time, especially when you goofs will do it for me anyways.

Първоначално публикувано от Federal Registrar:

Class 8 proponents sought expansion of the provisions in the existing exemption that allows eligible institutions to circumvent access controls to preserve video games for which external server support has been discontinued. As explained in the 2015 rulemaking, some video games require a network connection to a remote server operated by the game's developer before the video game can be accessed and played. When the developer takes such a server offline, a game can be rendered unplayable or limited to certain functions, such as single-player play or multiplayer play on a local network. The current exemption allows an eligible library, archives, or museum to circumvent this type of authentication mechanism to preserve lawfully acquired games in “complete” form, i.e., those that can be played without accessing or reproducing copyrightable content stored or previously stored on an external computer server. The exemption requires that such games not be distributed or made available outside of the physical premises of the eligible institution.

Hey, look at that, nothing about "personal use".

Hey look at that, intentional mis-quote...

[RasaNova]

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Първоначално публикувано от RasaNova:

I can not even fathom how you wouldn't think hackers would go after individuals. But it is so incredibly easy to verify that it's a real problem that I'm not going to bother explaining it, because at that point it becomes as productive as try6to convince a flat earther that the world is round.

Easy, I assume risk myself and steem doesn't... Just add the 3 lines of code that let me make the choice for myself. That simple

It's good you take responsibility for your actions and take steps to make choices for yourself but that is not at all what was being discussed. I was refuting the claim that hackers don't bother with regular users. They ABSOLUTELY do, and for somebody to try to convince people otherwise is flat-out dangerous.

[XPho3nixRisingX]

Pretty sure I understand what a "fair use" is lol.

And even back in 2010 all of this went down...

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/07/court-breaking-drm-for-a-fair-use-is-legal/

But again, all of this is common knowledge and well known.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

Hey, look at that, nothing about "personal use".

Hey look at that, intentional mis-quote...

Actually, the part I quoted is the introduction to the section you keep quoting.

[XPho3nixRisingX]

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

Hey, look at that, nothing about "personal use".

persons who engage in noninfringing uses of the
following classes of copyrighted works:

Describes literally anybody who is using something they legally purchased...

[Boblin the Goblin]

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

Hey, look at that, nothing about "personal use".

persons who engage in noninfringing uses of the
following classes of copyrighted works:

Describes literally anybody who is using something they own...

Except it doesn't.

It outlines what non-infringing use is. None of it involves personal use.

[XPho3nixRisingX]

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Hey look at that, intentional mis-quote...

Actually, the part I quoted is the introduction to the section you keep quoting.

No it was part of the suggestion, not what passed lol. But this is how you troll. Yet again, why do you never learn?

[Komarimaru]

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Първоначално публикувано от Komarimaru:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/10/26/2018-23241/exemption-to-prohibition-on-circumvention-of-copyright-protection-systems-for-access-control

Oh, is that so? Section 8. The only way you can legally remove DRM from a Steam game, is if the service is no longer available. Doing so otherwise is illegal.

Oh you mean the section that says nothing of the sort? Try 12

1201(a)(1)(A) shall not apply to persons who engage in noninfringing uses of the
following classes of copyrighted works:

(12)(i) Video games in the form of computer programs embodied in physical or
downloaded formats that have been lawfully acquired as complete games, when the
copyright owner or its authorized representative has ceased to provide access to an
external computer server necessary to facilitate an authentication process to enable
gameplay, solely for the purpose of:
(A) Permitting access to the video game to allow copying and modification of the
computer program to restore access to the game for personal, local gameplay on a
personal computer or video game console; or
(B) Permitting access to the video game to allow copying and modification of the
computer program to restore access to the game on a personal computer or video game
console when necessary to allow preservation of the game in a playable form by an
eligible library, archives, or museum, where such activities are carried out without any
purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and the video game is not distributed
or made available outside of the physical premises of the eligible library, archives, or
museum.

1. They will be dropping support as stated in their little red banner.
2. Whether steem is an authorized representative or not is suspect at best.
3. There are no stipulations regarding the loss of access, or the method for restoring it.
4. The rest is in section (A)
5. Nothing about whether the business ceases to exist or not, only that access/support was ended.

Maybe you should read what you posted.

“Ceased to provide access” means that the copyright owner or its authorized representative has either issued an affirmative statement indicating that external server support for the video game has ended and such support is in fact no longer available or, alternatively, server support has been discontinued for a period of at least six months; provided, however, that server support has not since been restored.

You should have read down further for the rest for local play, let me help you.

“Local gameplay” means gameplay conducted on a personal computer or video game console, or locally connected personal computers or consoles, and not through an online service or facility.

And notice the key wording there.

Steam as a service, is fully functional as if now, and will be come Jan 1 2024. The games are meant to be validated online by the Publisher requesting it, via DRM, thus bypassing that check makes it illegal.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

1. They will be dropping support as stated in their little red banner.
2. Whether steem is an authorized representative or not is suspect at best.
3. There are no stipulations regarding the loss of access, or the method for restoring it.
4. The rest is in section (A)
5. Nothing about whether the business ceases to exist or not, only that access/support was ended.

1: Dropping support for an OS is not shutting down the servers. The servers are still active, they just aren't available on Windows 7 users by their own choice.
2: Steam is an authorized representative since they are allowed to distribute the keys and host the game on their service. If they weren't, every publisher would be suing them into oblivion.
5: You just said there is no stipulation regarding loss of access but then say there is a stipulation about it. You losing access isn't what they are talking about since the servers are still active.

Here, lets see if we can look at it again;

Първоначално публикувано от Federal Register:

As explained in the 2015 rulemaking, some video games require a network connection to a remote server operated by the game's developer before the video game can be accessed and played. When the developer takes such a server offline, a game can be rendered unplayable or limited to certain functions, such as single-player play or multiplayer play on a local network.

Woah, I didn't know Steam developed every game on Steam and that come January 1st, 2024 they are completely taking the servers offline.

Oh wait, they didn't and they aren't so it looks like that doesn't apply to your choice to not update to Windows 10.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Първоначално публикувано от Komarimaru:

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Oh you mean the section that says nothing of the sort? Try 12

1201(a)(1)(A) shall not apply to persons who engage in noninfringing uses of the
following classes of copyrighted works:

(12)(i) Video games in the form of computer programs embodied in physical or
downloaded formats that have been lawfully acquired as complete games, when the
copyright owner or its authorized representative has ceased to provide access to an
external computer server necessary to facilitate an authentication process to enable
gameplay, solely for the purpose of:
(A) Permitting access to the video game to allow copying and modification of the
computer program to restore access to the game for personal, local gameplay on a
personal computer or video game console; or
(B) Permitting access to the video game to allow copying and modification of the
computer program to restore access to the game on a personal computer or video game
console when necessary to allow preservation of the game in a playable form by an
eligible library, archives, or museum, where such activities are carried out without any
purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and the video game is not distributed
or made available outside of the physical premises of the eligible library, archives, or
museum.

1. They will be dropping support as stated in their little red banner.
2. Whether steem is an authorized representative or not is suspect at best.
3. There are no stipulations regarding the loss of access, or the method for restoring it.
4. The rest is in section (A)
5. Nothing about whether the business ceases to exist or not, only that access/support was ended.

Maybe you should read what you posted.

“Ceased to provide access” means that the copyright owner or its authorized representative has either issued an affirmative statement indicating that external server support for the video game has ended and such support is in fact no longer available or, alternatively, server support has been discontinued for a period of at least six months; provided, however, that server support has not since been restored.

You should have read down further for the rest for local play, let me help you.

“Local gameplay” means gameplay conducted on a personal computer or video game console, or locally connected personal computers or consoles, and not through an online service or facility.

And notice the key wording there.

Steam as a service, is fully functional as if now, and will be come Jan 1 2024. The games are meant to be validated online by the Publisher requesting it, via DRM, thus bypassing that check makes it illegal.

Nah man, Steam is totally the developer of all the games on the store. That's why it's legal to remove their DRM if you chose not to update your OS.

/s

[XPho3nixRisingX]

Първоначално публикувано от Komarimaru:

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

Oh you mean the section that says nothing of the sort? Try 12

1201(a)(1)(A) shall not apply to persons who engage in noninfringing uses of the
following classes of copyrighted works:

(12)(i) Video games in the form of computer programs embodied in physical or
downloaded formats that have been lawfully acquired as complete games, when the
copyright owner or its authorized representative has ceased to provide access to an
external computer server necessary to facilitate an authentication process to enable
gameplay, solely for the purpose of:
(A) Permitting access to the video game to allow copying and modification of the
computer program to restore access to the game for personal, local gameplay on a
personal computer or video game console; or
(B) Permitting access to the video game to allow copying and modification of the
computer program to restore access to the game on a personal computer or video game
console when necessary to allow preservation of the game in a playable form by an
eligible library, archives, or museum, where such activities are carried out without any
purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage and the video game is not distributed
or made available outside of the physical premises of the eligible library, archives, or
museum.

1. They will be dropping support as stated in their little red banner.
2. Whether steem is an authorized representative or not is suspect at best.
3. There are no stipulations regarding the loss of access, or the method for restoring it.
4. The rest is in section (A)
5. Nothing about whether the business ceases to exist or not, only that access/support was ended.

Maybe you should read what you posted.

“Ceased to provide access” means that the copyright owner or its authorized representative has either issued an affirmative statement indicating that external server support for the video game has ended and such support is in fact no longer available or, alternatively, server support has been discontinued for a period of at least six months; provided, however, that server support has not since been restored.

You should have read down further for the rest for local play, let me help you.

“Local gameplay” means gameplay conducted on a personal computer or video game console, or locally connected personal computers or consoles, and not through an online service or facility.

And notice the key wording there.

Steam as a service, is fully functional as if now, and will be come Jan 1 2024. The games are meant to be validated online by the Publisher requesting it, via DRM, thus bypassing that check makes it illegal.

1. Removed access doesn't mean limited access to a specific platform.
2. Conveniently ignore (A)
3. Fair-use constitutes noninfringing use

[XPho3nixRisingX]

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

Първоначално публикувано от 76561198083042378:

1. They will be dropping support as stated in their little red banner.
2. Whether steem is an authorized representative or not is suspect at best.
3. There are no stipulations regarding the loss of access, or the method for restoring it.
4. The rest is in section (A)
5. Nothing about whether the business ceases to exist or not, only that access/support was ended.

1: Dropping support for an OS is not shutting down the servers. The servers are still active, they just aren't available on Windows 7 users by their own choice.
2: Steam is an authorized representative since they are allowed to distribute the keys and host the game on their service. If they weren't, every publisher would be suing them into oblivion.
5: You just said there is no stipulation regarding loss of access but then say there is a stipulation about it. You losing access isn't what they are talking about since the servers are still active.

1. Ended support/access
2. Means they fall under this not the other way around
5. Tell me where I said there is a stipulation... Maybe you mean regarding loss of access lol.
It's really simple, it doesn't say "except in x case."

[AmsterdamHeavy]

I mean...I can think of 3 games off the top of my head that are dead and gone and have been revived via fan communities and reverse engineering the code. Both Test Drive Unlimited games and City Heroes. Im sure there must be others I dont know about. These are years old communities. The City of Heroes: Homecoming folks have even fixed issues withe the old game and have regular content expansions.

Theyre even allowed to collect donations up to their operating costs. No profit allowed, basically.

No one, in a legal sense, from any of the IP holders is involved in or has approved this. Its all in the context of inoperable online games.

[Brian9824]

Първоначално публикувано от AmsterdamHeavy:

I mean...I can think of 3 games off the top of my head that are dead and gone and have been revived via fan communities and reverse engineering the code. Both Test Drive Unlimited games and City Heroes. These are years old communities. The City of Heroes: Homecoming folks have even fixed issues withe the old game and have regular content expansions.

Theyre even allowed to collect donations up to their operating costs. No profit allowed, basically.

No one, in a legal sense, from any of the IP holders is involved in or has approved this. Its all in the context of inoperable online games.

Yep City of Heroes is the biggest one I know and that one is more legally grey because they revived it, but NOT for personal use, but have also been talking with the developers who are aware of it and they were trying to find a way to license it, although the developers COULD order it shut down if they wish

[XPho3nixRisingX]

Personally I enjoyed the Ascender server fix for Ascend: Hand of Kul. I'll even suggest it was the reason for the return of the game itself...