Stop Censoring Our Games and not telling us!!!

[iamelocin]

I have to search my visual novels on google to make sure they don't contain H-scenes or any other scenes that is subject to be cut out, before purchasing it on steam. I do not support censorship, I see nothing wrong with buying censored games for those who are into that but I want a choice in the games I buy and I would like to know that a game I purchase had scenes that were cut out so I won't have to use my time to search for patches to make the game the way that it should have been released. Why doesn't steam have an adults only section? Why doesn't steam label all visual novels that are censored as All Ages Version, Teen Version Mature Version so people like me know not to buy the game from steam because we would then be aware that a uncensored version exists.I want to spend my money on a game as it was created to be not some watered down version for teenagers. Let us adults have our own section so we can play the games we enjoy without having to do the extra labor!!!

[CinthyaBunny]

It's part of their terms of service and their cooperation with the ESRB. Noting that, it's not exactly part of their group of games. Although they do sell games that are censored, it's to cater to a wider audience than just those people who want the nakedness and sexuality, which I'm one of those who doesn't.

It's part of their business model and many people, including parents and many other adults would love to tear steam apart as soon as they started selling uncensored games. It's part of the gaming culture, nudity is not accepted in gaming, because it is something you can get elsewhere instead.

[HLCinSC]

You have to tell the publisher to do that. They submit a build/version of the game to Steam and decide what goes on their store page. Valve has no way of knowing if the version is different from any other version out there.

Also, valve is a provate company so they can decide what kind of content they want to sell. They may not want to sell it because of their beliefs. They may not sell it because they don't want the negative PR. They may not want to sell it because of the hassle of verifying a user's age and conforming to additional laws in different countries. Whatever the reason, it is their choice to make.

[Start_Running]

Publishers have to censor games themselves otherwise they are simply banned from entire regions. Now seriously if you're a dev, what are you going to do. Make a version of the game that can only be sold in the USa, or make a version that Can be sold in the US, CHina, and the Uk?

Also it;s steam, chances are things have been cut out because when a dev releases on steam they're looking for wide marketing. Otherwise they'd just sell them off their own rinky-dink website.

[HLCinSC]

alminemine0 původně napsal:

'The last of us' on PS3 was 'R' rated but on PS4 it is only 'M' . Did make me wonder what had been cut/edited.

TLOU was rated M on both versions, In the US there is no "R" rating for games, only movies. http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=32916

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp?home=1&releases=1&searchType=title&titleOrPublisher=The+Last+of+Us+Remastered&platformsCriteria=PlayStation+4

[HLCinSC]

alminemine0 původně napsal:

CharlestONE původně napsal:

TLOU was rated M on both versions, In the US there is no "R" rating for games, only movies. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/A1dXfW1yPNL._SL1500_.jpg

I'm holding in my hands PS3 version 'R' High Impact violence.

What rating board?

In the US the ESRB rating is used, both of which received M ratings
http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=32916

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp?home=1&releases=1&searchType=title&titleOrPublisher=The+Last+of+Us+Remastered&platformsCriteria=PlayStation+4

[Start_Running]

And there you have it... ratings are not universal you know. One boards R is anothers M, and considering the subjective nature of the process it could simply meann a different set of eyes or they tweaked the rating conventions slightly .. knowing the nanny state this is quite likely.

[HLCinSC]

alminemine0 původně napsal:

CharlestONE původně napsal:

TLOU was rated M on both versions, In the US there is no "R" rating for games, only movies. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/A1dXfW1yPNL._SL1500_.jpg

I'm holding in my hands PS3 version 'R' High Impact violence.

EB games 'M' for PS4

Australia does have 'R' for gaming...18+

You'd have to ask the ACB, but maybe it is due to the increase in graphics. As M allows "Moderate violence is permitted, and realistic violence with "low intensity" may be depicted if "justified by context"." while R can have ""Realistic and explicit" depictions of violence is permitted, though violence that is "frequently gratuitous, cruel, exploitative and offensive to a reasonable adult" will not be permitted."

Also, ratings were expanded and changed over there a few times through 2013 and 2014.

[HLCinSC]

alminemine0 původně napsal:

We have 'MA' also which is close to 'R'

It seems in 2013 additional ratings were added and in 2014 they started allowing ratings from the IARC, which i think is headed by the people at PEGI, so content makers wouldn't skip Australia due to the cost if getting a rating.

[ღ҉ MaryJaneღ҉]

totally agree

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

There are also problems with legality between jurisdictions. Many video games showing violence to the person are banned in Germany.

However Steam's potentially biggest problem that I am aware of is Japanese manga. Japan only relatively recently bowed to international pressure and criminalised indecent photographs of children. But unlike Australia and the U.K there are no restrictions on non photographic images. The "wide eyed" slight form makes most manga characters appear young, even the sexually mature ones. Steam's problem is that if images in any of its products that get sold in the U.K.or Australia contain what are considered to be indecent pictures of children Steam and its directors would face criminal prosecution for distribution of illegal images of children, an offence for which the starting point is a prison sentence.

Some censorship is therefore necessary to keep Steam within the law for the various jurisdictions in which it sells.

S.x.

[K1NG]

ok...

[Atom.Little]

Fang původně napsal:

It's part of their terms of service and their cooperation with the ESRB. Noting that, it's not exactly part of their group of games. Although they do sell games that are censored, it's to cater to a wider audience than just those people who want the nakedness and sexuality, which I'm one of those who doesn't.

It's part of their business model and many people, including parents and many other adults would love to tear steam apart as soon as they started selling uncensored games. It's part of the gaming culture, nudity is not accepted in gaming, because it is something you can get elsewhere instead.

"It's part of their model" and "they have an agreement with ESRB| and you could've added "It's how they do it, so suck it up and llike it because I happen to be one of the people who like it that way."

Did you notice that OP didn't propose we take away cencurship from those who prefer it? That he suggested we had a section where it is made clear that here there is no sensureship? In short, that he thinks the better idea would be to make Steam a place where both group can enjoy the games.

Catering to a wider audience, right. This is always how it starts. And 'it' in this regard means the narrowing of how what is considered good and decent an d right to do - and to think.

Personally I detest cencureship, and I must say I wasn't even aware they had this practice - my own fault, I know, I could've read their policy more carefully - but I think it's a breach of common lawfulness to cvencure games that has you enter your birthdate because they're for a mature audience; to me that suggests the opposite of cencureship, and now I find it isn't.

It's a dirty move, to put it bluntly. I like Steam, but this I can never agree with. I have to live with it but I'm NOT going to like it, ever!
________________________________

dbtakewood28,

thanks for creating this thread. I agree with what you wrote, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who got their eyes opened to something they weren't aware of and hadn't tried to find out about because we thought it unthinkable that it would be done by an international company. But it's clear we can't afford not to be more alert about everything and everybody now adays.

You have my support, buddy.

[Atom.Little]

CharlestONE původně napsal:

You have to tell the publisher to do that. They submit a build/version of the game to Steam and decide what goes on their store page. Valve has no way of knowing if the version is different from any other version out there.

Also, valve is a provate company so they can decide what kind of content they want to sell. They may not want to sell it because of their beliefs. They may not sell it because they don't want the negative PR. They may not want to sell it because of the hassle of verifying a user's age and conforming to additional laws in different countries. Whatever the reason, it is their choice to make.

According to what both OP and Fang described, Valve knows very well what's in the games they put on Steam. It would be odd for a company like Steam to not check the game versions they're given by the game companies.

Also, what reason would game compannies have to cencure their own games before handing them over to somebody else to sell?

I think you're more right when you mention the PR alement. No doubt that's got mroe to do with it. That, and the catering to the larger community. We all know that the teenage and children group are the greatest video game consumers, after all.

But in later years I find that more and more mature gamers are coming up and I think the companies - also those such as Valve and Steam - will have to rethink their policies because of it before too long. It may still take a few years before they begin to wake up completely, but we have begun to see some signs that devs and their companies are aware of our (mature gamers') existence and our growing participation in gaming.

[HLCinSC]

AmaDraque původně napsal:

CharlestONE původně napsal:

You have to tell the publisher to do that. They submit a build/version of the game to Steam and decide what goes on their store page. Valve has no way of knowing if the version is different from any other version out there.

Also, valve is a provate company so they can decide what kind of content they want to sell. They may not want to sell it because of their beliefs. They may not sell it because they don't want the negative PR. They may not want to sell it because of the hassle of verifying a user's age and conforming to additional laws in different countries. Whatever the reason, it is their choice to make.

According to what both OP and Fang described, Valve knows very well what's in the games they put on Steam. It would be odd for a company like Steam to not check the game versions they're given by the game companies.

Also, what reason would game compannies have to cencure their own games before handing them over to somebody else to sell?

I think you're more right when you mention the PR alement. No doubt that's got mroe to do with it. That, and the catering to the larger community. We all know that the teenage and children group are the greatest video game consumers, after all.

But in later years I find that more and more mature gamers are coming up and I think the companies - also those such as Valve and Steam - will have to rethink their policies because of it before too long. It may still take a few years before they begin to wake up completely, but we have begun to see some signs that devs and their companies are aware of our (mature gamers') existence and our growing participation in gaming.

Devs know there are sets of rules and standards for Steam games so they submit one that is Steam appropriate. Stteam doesn't know if there is a triple XXX version for sale on site X or a super censored version on site Y. They probably have an idea for some games though if they are rejected and sent back with a no, but unless they ask if they are going to offer the uncut version somewhere else they don't know. The publisher has complete control over what their store page says and they are the ones that know what version is available where and should mention it on their own. There's very little forced info that Steam requires on a store page.

[Atom.Little]

Start_Running původně napsal:

Publishers have to censor games themselves otherwise they are simply banned from entire regions.

We have seen this happening in the past. That's why game companies have grown wise and enfold different levels of cencureship on games aimed at different regions.

Did you know that the same games that we play in the US is often cencored more strictluy than the same games are in the far East? Also, some European cencure a little more, orhters a little less, though most are probably the same as the US and Canada.
Now seriously if you're a dev, what are you going to do. Make a version of the game that can only be sold in the USa, or make a version that Can be sold in the US, CHina, and the Uk?

Start_Running původně napsal:

Also it;s steam, chances are things have been cut out because when a dev releases on steam they're looking for wide marketing. Otherwise they'd just sell them off their own rinky-dink website.

Exactly, as some others have pointed out. But do you think it's alright to cut things out entirely and for everybody without even mentioning it has been done, and even leaving the ESRB tagging as it was, in some cases demanding we enter our virth date in order to not only purchase and play the game, but to discuss it too - did you know that?

There can be no dispute that what you've said is correct, but I find it problematic to leave it at that.
________________________

Regarding your later reply to another poster:

Start_Running původně napsal:

And there you have it... ratings are not universal you know. One boards R is anothers M, and considering the subjective nature of the process it could simply meann a different set of eyes or they tweaked the rating conventions slightly .. knowing the nanny state this is quite likely.

How well said, that last line is fine punctuation in this reply.