Is Steam a Store or a Kickstarter?

[The Brown Hornet]

When I first joined Steam which was not that long ago it did in fact seem like a STORE, a digital store with awesome PC titles and amazing sales. But now with the addition of EA and even Greenlight it feels more like a doner Kickstarter service. Steam in my opinion has definitely begun to blur the line between Store and FUNDRAISER, I dont know if it can be both, is this right direction for the platform....it almost doesn't even seem legal.

In the PC world the term "Indie developer" sounds nice, honest, and innocent but what happens when you open the flood gates and let every "Indie developer" talented and NON TALENTED into the "Store" all begging for community time, funding, and support? For me it has actually become annoying, I'm literally fed up with all the low quality games popping up seemingly in the dozens everyday...

The truth is I haven't actually purchased any EA or Greenlight products so I haven't truly loss anything but nevertheless it has affected me in the sense that I no longer like or enjoy the STORE that use to be STEAM. For a time I use to spend a lot of money here but now its rare I buy anything. I personally dont trust all these drive-by-night Indie developers who pop up like flies on a daily basis. I use to look forward to visiting the Store when I logged on Steam, now I cant stand to look at it cause its full of bloatware and shovelware...slap the word "Indie" on it and thats suppose to somehow make it all right? Bloatware is bloat and I wish Steam would get rid of it or regulate it to different areas of the platform.

I have tried to customize but the crap titles keep popping up, nothing you can do about it....my view is that "Indie" aka Early Access, aka Greenlight, aka Kickstarter, aka GoFundMe, have taken over Steam and its a lesser experience as a result. I know the bottom line is making money and I know Steam is doing a good job of that but over the past year or two there has been a tremendous drop in quality. I want Steam to go back to quality over quantity and/or create some other outlet for the blight.

[Tux]

I think we are going to at least need a few examples of high quality games from those who suggest its not subjective I mean that is the least they can do

[The Brown Hornet]

引用自 WhiteKnight77：

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

I believe there is a difference between high quality and low quality games, someone like running man thinks it comes down to what one believes is good or bad. A high standard of quality however is not subjective; Steam can in fact set a quality standard for all games sold on the platform.

Should there be separate platforms based on quality standards? I think so, I personally only want to see, play, and buy the highest quality games. Independents shouldn't be exempt from high quality standards just cause they are "indie" and not AAA.

The sad thing is that Steam for me use to mean high quality PC gaming but that is no longer the case anymore.

Quality is subjective. No two people are going to have the same definitions. Would a game that runs smoothly at 20 FPS be considered quality to you? Would a game that only had SP be considered quality? Again, as I have stated before, what you might think quality is going to be different than someone else's.

Steam is a store, there is no reason why there needs to be separate store for Early Access games. Stores carry many different products and Steam is no different. As far as the rotating ads on the store's front page, from what I see it is games that are new releases, games on sale and games that are recommended for you and that includes AAA and Early Access games.

Will someone like all the games that are recommended for them? No. But, just because you do not like something does not mean someone else does not like it either.

#1 Quality means complete, not half a game or 1/3!

#2 Quality means consistent production value...one level works but another doesn't?

#3 Quality means functional, there are games sold on Steam that don't even run, they crash as soon as you hit start game! Regardless of the power of your Rig!

#4 Quality means positive reviews from gamers and critics, yes it matters what the public thinks

#5 Quality means originality, how many survival , crafting, horror, zombie clones do we need? Be Original!

#6 Quality means Dev support, when it's clear the devs can care less about fixing their game, remove it from sale.

#7 Quality means ratings and ranking titles 5 star to 1 star. I don't want 1 star games showing up on my store page.

#8 Quality means listing a game for sale only after it PASSES alpha and beta testing!

[Tux]

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

引用自 WhiteKnight77：

Quality is subjective. No two people are going to have the same definitions. Would a game that runs smoothly at 20 FPS be considered quality to you? Would a game that only had SP be considered quality? Again, as I have stated before, what you might think quality is going to be different than someone else's.

Steam is a store, there is no reason why there needs to be separate store for Early Access games. Stores carry many different products and Steam is no different. As far as the rotating ads on the store's front page, from what I see it is games that are new releases, games on sale and games that are recommended for you and that includes AAA and Early Access games.

Will someone like all the games that are recommended for them? No. But, just because you do not like something does not mean someone else does not like it either.

#1 Quality means complete, not half a game or 1/3!

failed right there.

complete does not = quality by any stretch. I could put a turd on a stick and call it done and that would be 'complete'

oh and what the F does 'production value' even mean? that is just PR hype

[The Brown Hornet]

引用自 Tux：

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

#1 Quality means complete, not half a game or 1/3!

failed right there.

complete does not = quality by any stretch. I could put a turd on a stick and call it done and that would be 'complete'

If it's a turd it should of never been on Steam in the first place, thus the problem at hand

[fluxtorrent]

And yet Steam had plenty of turds before Early Access, and continues to have Turds that are launched "complete" without Early Access. If your problem is "turds" then make a thread about turds. Since you have already stated you don't want to participate in Early Access games, congratulations, you have succeeded in that goal, and managed it without Steam holding your hand like a child. Now let the people who enjoy participating in the development process (well over a million people, based on sales of certain titles) enjoy the products they do.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

引用自 Quint the Robot Girl：

Consider the following example:
A Japanese "bullet hell" shmup. Single player. Five levels long; if you 1cc them you get a sixth bonus boss level. Text is translated, voicework is available but not translated. Plot is basically an excuse plot (though some may find it humorous). Controls are arrow keys for movement and ZXCVASDF for action buttons, which can be rebound over the alphabet keys. Interface is 2D using sprite graphics, shooting upward; the sides of the game window are blocks of in-game information while the actual play area is a longer-than-wide rectangle in the center of the window. Entire game window is 4:3 aspect ratio; fullscreen is possible up to at least 900 pixels of height. Contains practice modes for each level. Does not cooperate properly with Steam Overlay; attempting to take a screenshot will take a screenshot of only the background but no sprites or interface elements. First released in sometime around 2005-2009, probably; became available in English on Steam in 2012. Character art has an "anime" aesthetic. It is the third game of a series of shmups, and actually a remake of the original third game in said series. Windows only. Gamepad use may be possible, but not guaranteed. Has Steam trading cards; does not have achievements, Steam Cloud (doesn't have saves anyway), or leaderboards. Sells for $5.99 base price. The soundtrack, which consists of metal with techno influences and is well-regarded, is available separately for $9.99 base price.

Would you allow this game to continue to be sold on Steam?

Older games are of their time and should only be sold on Steam if they are functional, compatible, optimized and have troubleshooting guides available through Steam not just the community.

The game can be run on OSes as far back as Windows ME/2000 and uses DirectX 8, according to its stated required specs on the store page. For what it's worth it is confirmed by yours truly to work as described above on out-of-the-box laptops with Intel integrated graphics cards running Windows 7 and 8.1. Presumably it will work with most other setups, as it is pretty light on specs, though given the nature of PC gaming, with its infinite numbers of combinations of specs, this is never guaranteed. No idea whether it will run in Wine, either.

There is a manual, which describes the gameplay and in-game options. There are no guides related to technical problems. The only guide on Steam that's actually relevant to the game is basically a detailed manual / player's guide, created by a fan.

The status of its optimization is unknown to me as I have never looked at the code or run it through a debugger or anything like that.

So is that a yes or a no?

[The Brown Hornet]

引用自 Quint the Robot Girl：

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

Older games are of their time and should only be sold on Steam if they are functional, compatible, optimized and have troubleshooting guides available through Steam not just the community.

The game can be run on OSes as far back as Windows ME/2000 and uses DirectX 8, according to its stated required specs on the store page. For what it's worth it is confirmed by yours truly to work as described above on out-of-the-box laptops with Intel integrated graphics cards running Windows 7 and 8.1. Presumably it will work with most other setups, as it is pretty light on specs, though given the nature of PC gaming, with its infinite numbers of combinations of specs, this is never guaranteed. No idea whether it will run in Wine, either.

There is a manual, which describes the gameplay and in-game options. There are no guides related to technical problems. The only guide on Steam that's actually relevant to the game is basically a detailed manual / player's guide, created by a fan.

The status of its optimization is unknown to me as I have never looked at the code or run it through a debugger or anything like that.

So is that a yes or a no?

Would love to argue all day but I'm grading papers now

[Start_Running]

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

#1 Quality means complete, not half a game or 1/3!

Fair enough.

#2 Quality means consistent production value...one level works but another doesn't?

#3 Quality means functional, there are games sold on Steam that don't even run, they crash as soon as you hit start game! Regardless of the power of your Rig!

That's sorta an issue with your rig not the software. If it runs on someone else's and not yours then the problem lies within your machine.

#4 Quality means positive reviews from gamers and critics, yes it matters what the public thinks

Find me a game with 0 positive reviews.

#5 Quality means originality, how many survival , crafting, horror, zombie clones do we need? Be Original!

Wait.. now you're slipping. You say you don't like indies, but indies are the only ones that ever do anything original. AAA's basically make more of the same ad infinitumm. Hmmm i wonder.

#6 Quality means Dev support, when it's clear the devs can care less about fixing their game, remove it from sale.

Again.. where the fix must be applied to the user's computer that's the user's problem.

#7 Quality means ratings and ranking titles 5 star to 1 star. I don't want 1 star games showing up on my store page.

#8 Quality means listing a game for sale only after it PASSES alpha and beta testing!

SO as evidenced you like to be told what games to by. Keep in mind when you rely on ratings you're relying on someone else. someone else that may well have been shall e say, influenced to give the rating they did.


As for Alpha and beta... you do realize in software development those terms are very nebulous. and passing alph and beta is easy really. You'd be hard pressed to find a game that didn't pass it's developers own beta testing.


As said. if you want someone else to tell you what to look at that's fine... follow a curator and buy the games they recommend. YOu never even have to visit the store page, just go to the pages of your schosen curators.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

引用自 Quint the Robot Girl：

The game can be run on OSes as far back as Windows ME/2000 and uses DirectX 8, according to its stated required specs on the store page. For what it's worth it is confirmed by yours truly to work as described above on out-of-the-box laptops with Intel integrated graphics cards running Windows 7 and 8.1. Presumably it will work with most other setups, as it is pretty light on specs, though given the nature of PC gaming, with its infinite numbers of combinations of specs, this is never guaranteed. No idea whether it will run in Wine, either.

There is a manual, which describes the gameplay and in-game options. There are no guides related to technical problems. The only guide on Steam that's actually relevant to the game is basically a detailed manual / player's guide, created by a fan.

The status of its optimization is unknown to me as I have never looked at the code or run it through a debugger or anything like that.

So is that a yes or a no?

Would love to argue all day but I'm grading papers now

Great job dodging the most important question. :P

[Dogui]

#2 Quality means consistent production value...one level works but another doesn't?

Like Assassins Creed series where they spend millions to release a game with lots of bugs and cloned gameplay every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time? Seems legit lol

About early access, if the community say x game is incomplete, everyone can see that in the forums and make the decision of not buying it.

There's even a 4chan tier list about EA games, from "this-looks-complete-and-should-be-released-as-a-regular-game" tier to "totally-broken-pls-don't-buy" tier

edit: lol didn't know that some sites have it's name censored on Steam

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Also, physical stores constantly sell crap too.

And there's even fewer ways to find out how good a particular shirt is. At least with games you can do research -- check out user reviews, check out professional reviews, look at Youtube videos of gameplay, look at trailers, look at screenshots, view descriptions, view required and recommended specs...

[YoWutSup]

引用自 Aaron：

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

The sad thing is that Steam for me use to mean high quality PC gaming but that is no longer the case anymore.

This is a very good point. When I first made an account about 9 or so years ago, there were only a few titles. Then they started selling more and more but the quality was high. But now it does seem to be flooded with quick, cheap, easy-to-make indie games precisely because they are quick, cheap, and easy-to-make.

Exactly. I remember when Steam added those handful of picks, they were quality-made, polished completed video games.

Now it just seems the Store is trying to appeal to the "my little pony/hipster" crowd.

[Tux]

a game being 'completed' is subjective. Just because a game developer can call a game 'completed' doesnt mean its of good quality and it doesnt even mean everyone would agree that the game is completed.

Now I know some of you guys are young and dont have a lot of gaming experience so many of you dont know the era in which firms which are now called AAA devs actually were better actually did have better graphics.

Now they are substandard and even on the graphics side not all that great.

[WhiteKnight77]

引用自 Quint the Robot Girl：

引用自 The Brown Hornet：

Would love to argue all day but I'm grading papers now

Great job dodging the most important question. :P

I wonder what he teaches? That he cannot understand objective or subjective is telling and it is hard to believe that he is a teacher. His list of quantifiers for quality are telling in that he hasn't been following gaming trends for very long.

He has his share of sequels from those big companies that he only wants us to buy from. I hate to tell him, his tastes do not equal my tastes even if we have a couple of the same games. For someone who claims to be so discerning, why does he have more than double the number of games I have?

Again, what you call quality is not what I call quality. Even in the state it is in, I see the quality in Ground Branch (even though it hasn't even made it to Early Access yet) compared to Rainbow Six Vegas which was made years ago. I dislike Team Fortress 2, CounterStrike (I would rather play the game is was copied from and it did win GOTY) and Call of Duty (yearly iterations of it since 2001 and nothing has changed gameplay wise), but I am not about to presume that I can cry about them being sold on Steam even though many people do buy them.

Again, Steam is a store and it carries many products for many people. Steam and Valve can see how popular it is and how well it is working. When at least 25% of the games that have used the program thus far have made it to completion compared to the approximately 1% that have been pulled or failed from the program, is quite telling and anyone who possesses critical thinking skills can see that there is nothing wrong with it and Steam knows it.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

^ Where do the 25% and 1% figures come from, again?