The 'Anti-Linux' Anti-Cheat is getting out of hand, Valve plz help

[Tic-toc26]

Grand Theft Auto V previously a top 10 played game on Steam Deck before a (decade overdue) anti-cheat update now no longer works on Linux, because the the anti-cheat deems Linux as Cheat software.

To me this is extremely frustrating and I know I'm not the only one. The Steam Deck is built TO PLAY GAMES! Why are anti-cheat preventing game from being played on a device that is made TO PLAY GAMES? This doesn't make any sense!

So what can we do about it? Well other than making a fit about it and others go farther by proving the anti-cheat is ineffective. I think the only thing we can effective do is reach out to Valve to make a incentive to these people to make there software work on Linux.


Edit:
THIS IS NOT ABOUT GTA V, GTA V IS ONLY A RECENT EXAMPLE AS EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT GTA V IS!

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE GAME IT SELF WORKING ON LINUX!
(if you don't know about steam-play/proton learn about that before posting here)

THIS IS ABOUT ANTI-CHEAT AND LINUX, Linux is not Cheat software yet a handful of anti-cheat's prevent people from playing because there not playing on windows.

Edit, edit:

Początkowo opublikowane przez cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Things are in motion...

https://steamdeckhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/RedditGrandTheftAutoOnlineResponseSteamSupport.webp

:nkCool:

While this is not about GTA V thing are happening, for this one game. We need a solution for the rest!
Thank you Nate! and thank you the people over at Valve!

[Lixire]

Początkowo opublikowane przez D. Flame:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

Yet you are the one trying to bring them.
I gave you 2 kernel level ACs as an example that do a great job at their purpose.
When Riot moved away from their user mode AC (Packman) to kernel level in League (Vanguard) earlier this year. a crapton of cheaters were banned and botting went down by a large margin + new cheats are getting detected much faster and bans are being issued faster

https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol-retrospective/

Why do I keep on bringing VAC into the mix? to show the side of "server sided ACs" as CS2 is the most popular mainstream game that still uses such solution.

You may like it or not and you do have the option to avoid those games if you want but kernel level ACs have proven themselves very effective and helped for the long term health of the game
If you are concerned about it being a security risk which is valid. plain and simple, don't play such games.

It "went down by a margin" is not the flex that you think it is.

It def is. Cheaters will always exist in any game. that's a given.
The job of an anti cheat is to make sure that number of cheaters is as low as it can be in order to maintain competitive integrity
1 cheater in every 100 games is much better than 1 cheater in every 20 games or even worse.

That's an objective benefit and does improve the experience for every player playing the game. especially if you are a high ranked player
is it worth the risk in terms of security? That is for you to decide if you want to play the game but for most people it is.

[Ben Lubar]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

Początkowo opublikowane przez D. Flame:

It "went down by a margin" is not the flex that you think it is.

It def is. Cheaters will always exist in any game. that's a given.
The job of an anti cheat is to make sure that number of cheaters is as low as it can be in order to maintain competitive integrity
1 cheater in every 100 games is much better than 1 cheater in every 20 games or even worse.

That's an objective benefit and does improve the experience for every player playing the game. especially if you are a high ranked player
is it worth the risk in terms of security? That is for you to decide if you want to play the game but for most people it is.

1 cheater in every 100 games sounds much, much worse than anything I've ever experienced in a game with VAC.

[Lixire]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

It def is. Cheaters will always exist in any game. that's a given.
The job of an anti cheat is to make sure that number of cheaters is as low as it can be in order to maintain competitive integrity
1 cheater in every 100 games is much better than 1 cheater in every 20 games or even worse.

That's an objective benefit and does improve the experience for every player playing the game. especially if you are a high ranked player
is it worth the risk in terms of security? That is for you to decide if you want to play the game but for most people it is.

1 cheater in every 100 games sounds much, much worse than anything I've ever experienced in a game with VAC.

That's an example I used to describe the difference going from 5% to 1%
Riot themselves mentioned "our Ranked scripting rate fell below 1% for the first time in nearly four years. As of the time of this writing, only 1 in every 200 Ranked games is played with a scripter"

League's previous user-mode anti cheat was really that bad that it had like 1 cheater every 30-40 games

[Ben Lubar]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

1 cheater in every 100 games sounds much, much worse than anything I've ever experienced in a game with VAC.

That's an example I used to describe the difference going from 5% to 1%
Riot themselves mentioned "our Ranked scripting rate fell below 1% for the first time in nearly four years. As of the time of this writing, only 1 in every 200 Ranked games is played with a scripter"

League's previous user-mode anti cheat was really that bad that it had like 1 cheater every 30-40 games

In games I've played, I'd estimate the cheaters to be about 1 every 10000 matches or less frequently. Sounds like League of Legends is pretty far behind and slowly catching up.

[Lixire]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

That's an example I used to describe the difference going from 5% to 1%
Riot themselves mentioned "our Ranked scripting rate fell below 1% for the first time in nearly four years. As of the time of this writing, only 1 in every 200 Ranked games is played with a scripter"

League's previous user-mode anti cheat was really that bad that it had like 1 cheater every 30-40 games

In games I've played, I'd estimate the cheaters to be about 1 every 10000 matches or less frequently. Sounds like League of Legends is pretty far behind and slowly catching up.

There is a difference between what you estimate and official data.
We can take a CS2 player at 5K ELO in premier who played 1000 games and he can say "I never did see any cheaters" but if we swap that player with someone in 25K ELO then his reaction will be like "I see a cheater every second game I play"

Not to mention that bigger games with active eSports scene are far more attractive to cheat on

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kithylinite:

I hope you can (some how) understand this time.

I have hope that some day Valve and The Linux Community can work together to figure out how to get this game to run in Linux again. They are the ones that figured it out the first time years ago. Surely they can do it again if given enough time.

Valve has nothing to do with Rockstar's decision to ban Linux users from their game in update 1.69.

Yes they do. Like I tried to explain above: Valve and The Linux Community are the ones responsible for getting the game to work in Linux the first time, before, in the past. If they did it before they can do it again given enough time.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

They made an intentional decision to not allow Linux users to run their game.

No. As I tried to explain that's not the situation at all. Rockstar updated their game to work in their chosen operating system that they designed the game to run in. If it doesn't work in Linux then Rockstar isn't concerned at all about that. That's just a side-effect of their update. Everyone needs to be complaining to Valve and the linux community about this to get them to fix it so it will work again. No one should be complaining to or about Rockstar. They just updated their game. It's literally zero concern to them if the game works in Linux or not. They don't even care if their game works in Linux or not. That's not the supported operating system for this game.

[Lixire]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kithylinite:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

Valve has nothing to do with Rockstar's decision to ban Linux users from their game in update 1.69.

Yes they do. Like I tried to explain above: Valve and The Linux Community are the ones responsible for getting the game to work in Linux the first time, before, in the past. If they did it before they can do it again given enough time.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

They made an intentional decision to not allow Linux users to run their game.

No. As I tried to explain that's not the situation at all. Rockstar updated their game to work in their chosen operating system that they designed the game to run in. If it doesn't work in Linux then Rockstar isn't concerned at all about that. That's just a side-effect of their update. Everyone needs to be complaining to Valve and the linux community about this to get them to fix it so it will work again. No one should be complaining to or about Rockstar. They just updated their game. It's literally zero concern to them if the game works in Linux or not. They don't even care if their game works in Linux or not. That's not the supported operating system for this game.

Battleye nowadays does ship with a build for Linux users and is fully supported by the anti cheat developers of that one
https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3104663180636096966

It's just that the GTA V developers chose not to enable this anti-cheat for Linux users on-purpose. Valve already did get in touch with Battleye to get that anti-cheat to work with Proton so the platform is there. it's just up to the developers of the game to enable that support if they desire so, Valve has nothing to do here.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

It's just that the GTA V developers chose not to enable this anti-cheat for Linux users on-purpose. Valve already did get in touch with Battleye to get that anti-cheat to work with Proton so the platform is there. it's just up to the developers of the game to enable that support if they desire so, Valve has nothing to do here.

I'm trying to be nice, polite, and stick to the facts here to avoid arguments so it would be nice if others would remain factual as well. I'm not sure why you quoted my words but did not read my words. I guess I need to repeat myself, again: Rockstar is only concerned with the game working in Microsoft Windows. They have no concern what so ever if the game either works or doesn't work in Linux. Linux means nothing to them as it's not an operating system that they list as supported for this game. You are incorrect. Rockstar does not "need to enable support for Linux". They will never "enable support for Linux". They did not "enable support for Linux" in the past either. That's not up to the developers of Rockstar.

Rockstar designed GTA-V to work in Microsoft Windows. It's only supposed to work in Microsoft Windows. If it happens to work in Linux then that's something the linux community and Valve did. The game being able to work in Linux in the past was something Valve and The Linux Community figured out on their own to get working. Rockstar never had anything to do with GTA-V being able to be used in Linux (or not used in Linux) even years ago.

Everyone that has been able to play this game in Linux knew this entire time that they were playing the game in an unsupported configuration in a way it's not supposed to be played. All Linux GTA-V players also knew that at any time Rockstar could release a patch that would suddenly make the game not work in Linux any more.

This applies to all Windows games that do not have a native Windows version that people are playing in Linux: The developer can release an update at any point in time in the future that will suddenly make the game stop working in Linux.

The problem here is Linux users are crying, screaming, and mad that a game they never were supposed to be able to play suddenly can't be played anymore.

[Ben Lubar]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

In games I've played, I'd estimate the cheaters to be about 1 every 10000 matches or less frequently. Sounds like League of Legends is pretty far behind and slowly catching up.

There is a difference between what you estimate and official data.
We can take a CS2 player at 5K ELO in premier who played 1000 games and he can say "I never did see any cheaters" but if we swap that player with someone in 25K ELO then his reaction will be like "I see a cheater every second game I play"

Not to mention that bigger games with active eSports scene are far more attractive to cheat on

And the official data is...?

[Ben Lubar]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kithylinite:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

It's just that the GTA V developers chose not to enable this anti-cheat for Linux users on-purpose. Valve already did get in touch with Battleye to get that anti-cheat to work with Proton so the platform is there. it's just up to the developers of the game to enable that support if they desire so, Valve has nothing to do here.

I'm trying to be nice, polite, and stick to the facts here to avoid arguments so it would be nice if others would remain factual as well. I'm not sure why you quoted my words but did not read my words. I guess I need to repeat myself, again: Rockstar is only concerned with the game working in Microsoft Windows. They have no concern what so ever if the game either works or doesn't work in Linux. Linux means nothing to them as it's not an operating system that they list as supported for this game. You are incorrect. Rockstar does not "need to enable support for Linux". They will never "enable support for Linux". They did not "enable support for Linux" in the past either. That's not up to the developers of Rockstar.

Rockstar designed GTA-V to work in Microsoft Windows. It's only supposed to work in Microsoft Windows. If it happens to work in Linux then that's something the linux community and Valve did. The game being able to work in Linux in the past was something Valve and The Linux Community figured out on their own to get working. Rockstar never had anything to do with GTA-V being able to be used in Linux (or not used in Linux) even years ago.

Everyone that has been able to play this game in Linux knew this entire time that they were playing the game in an unsupported configuration in a way it's not supposed to be played. All Linux GTA-V players also knew that at any time Rockstar could release a patch that would suddenly make the game not work in Linux any more.

This applies to all Windows games that do not have a native Windows version that people are playing in Linux: The developer can release an update at any point in time in the future that will suddenly make the game stop working in Linux.

The problem here is Linux users are crying, screaming, and mad that a game they never were supposed to be able to play suddenly can't be played anymore.

Would you be upset if a company added code to the game you had been happily and legally playing for years that was specifically designed to make it not work on your computer and do nothing else? Because that seems like a pretty reasonable thing to be upset about to me. Especially because making BattlEye work in Proton is literally a checkbox that they explicitly stated they did not want to check for some unspecified reason in the 1.69 patch notes.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

Would you be upset if a company added code to the game you had been happily and legally playing for years that was specifically designed to make it not work on your computer and do nothing else? Because that seems like a pretty reasonable thing to be upset about to me. Especially because making BattlEye work in Proton is literally a checkbox that they explicitly stated they did not want to check for some unspecified reason in the 1.69 patch notes.

In the case of what happened with Linux: Nope. I wouldn't be mad at all. I dual boot both Linux and Windows. I've known for many years since the game first released in 2015 (and was then modified to run in Linux in 2016) that being able to run the game in Linux shouldn't of been possible. I've known that it was an unsupported configuration playing GTA-V in Linux.

I also had anxiety that every time there was a new update for GTA-V: "This is it.. this is finally going to be the update that kills support for this game on Linux" ... crossing my fingers that it still worked and then after patch and seeing the game still worked in Linux: "Oh whew we can still play in Linux again!"

I'm sure I wasn't alone. Everyone playing the game in Linux had to of known that any update/patch to the game at any point over the past 9 years would suddenly make the game not work in Linux any more.

It finally happened. No one should be shocked, upset, mad, or angry. As I said before: It shouldn't of been possible to play the game in Linux even back in 2016. It's no surprise that they broke the game in Linux with an update. I'm actually genuinely surprised that it didn't happen sooner. I really thought they would of patched that out within days of the first announcement that it worked in Linux.

If you want to be able to always play a game and never worry about being unable to play the game then use the operating system it's designed to run in. Linux users complaining about not being able to play a game they shouldn't of been able to play at all in the first place is just silly and they deserve being laughed at for behaving that way.

[RedLightning]

Yep another kill switch, in my opinion, MS throws some money around and all of a sudden the game doesn't function. hmm.. Windows 11 is what pushed me to linux.. I guess MS gonna certainly find other ways to keep people in windows.

In my opinion.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Początkowo opublikowane przez RedLightning:

Yep another kill switch, in my opinion, MS throws some money around and all of a sudden the game doesn't function. hmm.. Windows 11 is what pushed me to linux.. I guess MS gonna certainly find other ways to keep people in windows.

In my opinion.

GTA-V still does function perfectly fine, 100% functionality. As long as you play it in the operating system that the developer says it's designed to run in.

[RedLightning]

of course.. just the way they want it for sure... in my humble opinion.

You would think it would just mean more money for them.. but they have other motives... imho

[Soren]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ben Lubar:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lixire:

That's an example I used to describe the difference going from 5% to 1%
Riot themselves mentioned "our Ranked scripting rate fell below 1% for the first time in nearly four years. As of the time of this writing, only 1 in every 200 Ranked games is played with a scripter"

League's previous user-mode anti cheat was really that bad that it had like 1 cheater every 30-40 games

In games I've played, I'd estimate the cheaters to be about 1 every 10000 matches or less frequently. Sounds like League of Legends is pretty far behind and slowly catching up.

Games like TF2 have about one cheater every 10-20 hours of playing. Back in the old days when I used to play it, it was one cheater every 1-2 hours and the game was borderline unplayable for it. Which was around a 5% of the playerbase being cheaters. Now it's at around 0.5% by my friend's estimates in comparison. Much better. Still no where near 1/10000 matches. More like 1/20 matches. I can only assume you're talking about DOTA 2 or something when you say 1/10000. Since you guys are discussing League.