The 'Anti-Linux' Anti-Cheat is getting out of hand, Valve plz help

[Tic-toc26]

Grand Theft Auto V previously a top 10 played game on Steam Deck before a (decade overdue) anti-cheat update now no longer works on Linux, because the the anti-cheat deems Linux as Cheat software.

To me this is extremely frustrating and I know I'm not the only one. The Steam Deck is built TO PLAY GAMES! Why are anti-cheat preventing game from being played on a device that is made TO PLAY GAMES? This doesn't make any sense!

So what can we do about it? Well other than making a fit about it and others go farther by proving the anti-cheat is ineffective. I think the only thing we can effective do is reach out to Valve to make a incentive to these people to make there software work on Linux.


Edit:
THIS IS NOT ABOUT GTA V, GTA V IS ONLY A RECENT EXAMPLE AS EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT GTA V IS!

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE GAME IT SELF WORKING ON LINUX!
(if you don't know about steam-play/proton learn about that before posting here)

THIS IS ABOUT ANTI-CHEAT AND LINUX, Linux is not Cheat software yet a handful of anti-cheat's prevent people from playing because there not playing on windows.

Edit, edit:

Diposting pertama kali oleh cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Things are in motion...

https://steamdeckhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/RedditGrandTheftAutoOnlineResponseSteamSupport.webp

:nkCool:

While this is not about GTA V thing are happening, for this one game. We need a solution for the rest!
Thank you Nate! and thank you the people over at Valve!

[Lixire]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

No one says that Linux users are more likely to cheat but sadly. due to the very openness of the OS is also why Linux cannot be trusted as the developers cannot attest that your kernel is "clean"

The only solution for kernel level ACs on Linux is simply have distros with vetted kernels and not allow loading of any custom kernels + require TPM and Secure Boot and use unified kernel image (UKI)

Server sided ACs could be a nice solution but they have proven themselves to be very ineffective. CS2 is based on VAC which is server based yet is completely useless and high elo games are basically unplayable due to the amount of cheaters.

Windows being closed source and standardized gives the anti-cheat developers more options to trust your own system and have better options to make sure that your boot process hasn't been tempered with.

They shouldn't have or need kernel level anyway. It is a huge security risk, and it is not like it stops cheats anyway.

I hate software running with such level of access like most people but again. server sided ACs and user mode anti cheats have proven themselves to be completely useless.

There is no cheat free game, I agree but there is a difference of how often someone will encounter a cheater.
The average high ELO Valorant player will have a MUCH better time with that aspect compared to a high ELO Premier CS2 player.

In the future, We will see those anti cheats shifting towards a different model (VBS enclaves) with Windows 11 being pretty much the most popular OS among Steam users

[D. Flame]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

They shouldn't have or need kernel level anyway. It is a huge security risk, and it is not like it stops cheats anyway.

I hate software running with such level of access like most people but again. server sided ACs and user mode anti cheats have proven themselves to be completely useless.

There is no cheat free game, I agree but there is a difference of how often someone will encounter a cheater.
The average high ELO Valorant player will have a MUCH better time with that aspect compared to a high ELO Premier CS2 player.

In the future, We will see those anti cheats shifting towards a different model (VBS enclaves) with Windows 11 being pretty much the most popular OS among Steam users

You're missing the point.

If Option A barely works, and Option B also barely works on top of being a huge security risk, then there is no excuse to use Option B.

[Wolfpig]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tic-toc26:

Now then GTA had support throw Proton/Steam Play, the store page at one point declared it was "Top on Deck" a system that Runs Linux by Default.

Funfact.
Most of those Plays on Steamdeck Banners on Gamesites are put there by valve, as their automated System checks if games run or not.
That is even stated when you click on the big learn more besides the steam deck compatibilty info (which a lot use to see if it "works" on linux it seems)

[Lixire]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

I hate software running with such level of access like most people but again. server sided ACs and user mode anti cheats have proven themselves to be completely useless.

There is no cheat free game, I agree but there is a difference of how often someone will encounter a cheater.
The average high ELO Valorant player will have a MUCH better time with that aspect compared to a high ELO Premier CS2 player.

In the future, We will see those anti cheats shifting towards a different model (VBS enclaves) with Windows 11 being pretty much the most popular OS among Steam users

You're missing the point.

If Option A barely works, and Option B also barely works on top of being a huge security risk, then there is no excuse to use Option B.

Option A doesn't work at all, cause again. CS2 is unplayable the moment you reach higher ranks
Option B is working much better and actually ensures that you have an actual competitive integrity.

the "high security risk" isn't relevant. Either you trust the developer and play the said game or you don't play it. games that use those ACs will tell you about it and you have the option to decline and either your game won't launch at all or only the single player part will work i.e it depends on your threat model.

When server based ACs will work then I would love to revisit that but I don't see it happening at the moment as VACnet is absolutely useless

[Soren]

If the anti-cheat isn't going to allow linux users than it needs to be optional with private servers picking up the slack. Otherwise, anti-cheat should strive not to be linux incompatible. If not, just for the fact that the steam deck exists now so linux users are only going to keep growing.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

I hate software running with such level of access like most people but again. server sided ACs and user mode anti cheats have proven themselves to be completely useless.

Cheaters being present is not a zero sum game. If your game has 5% of it's audience cheating or 0.5% the result is going to feel vastly different to the end user. 5% would largely be deemed unplayable (depending on how many players are in a match/lobby). The other is somewhat bearable as far as most games would go.

I just want the option for anti-cheat servers if the game is PVP based. PVE co-op games don't need the option, as they generally don't need anti-cheat at all. But shooters are borderline unplayable if there is zero anti-cheat or zero moderation.

[KalGimpa]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

I hate software running with such level of access like most people but again. server sided ACs and user mode anti cheats have proven themselves to be completely useless.

There is no cheat free game, I agree but there is a difference of how often someone will encounter a cheater.
The average high ELO Valorant player will have a MUCH better time with that aspect compared to a high ELO Premier CS2 player.

In the future, We will see those anti cheats shifting towards a different model (VBS enclaves) with Windows 11 being pretty much the most popular OS among Steam users

You're missing the point.

If Option A barely works, and Option B also barely works on top of being a huge security risk, then there is no excuse to use Option B.

option b does work, though

it will always be playing catch up to those making cheats

but it works better than not having it

i hate using them, myself

but i do not use my gaming pc for anything but gaming, so it is a small hit for me

[D. Flame]

Diposting pertama kali oleh KalCuey:

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

You're missing the point.

If Option A barely works, and Option B also barely works on top of being a huge security risk, then there is no excuse to use Option B.

option b does work, though

You should look up what "barely" means. Actually... I will do it for you:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/barely

barely
adverb
by the smallest amount

When they blocked Linux, Linux users got completely blocked, but cheaters were back on within 24 hours.

[Lixire]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Soren:

If the anti-cheat isn't going to allow linux users than it needs to be optional with private servers picking up the slack. Otherwise, anti-cheat should strive not to be linux incompatible. If not, just for the fact that the steam deck exists now so linux users are only going to keep growing.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

I hate software running with such level of access like most people but again. server sided ACs and user mode anti cheats have proven themselves to be completely useless.

Cheaters being present is not a zero sum game. If your game has 5% of it's audience cheating or 0.5% the result is going to feel vastly different to the end user. 5% would largely be deemed unplayable (depending on how many players are in a match/lobby). The other is somewhat bearable as far as most games would go.

I just want the option for anti-cheat servers if the game is PVP based. PVE co-op games don't need the option, as they generally don't need anti-cheat at all. But shooters are borderline unplayable if there is zero anti-cheat or zero moderation.

It could be nice if games like Helldivers 2 or GTA V did allow you to play on lobbies that do not require aggressive anti cheats like how CS did with servers that do not have VAC at all and I agree that not every game requires those kernel level ACs and some could just work with nothing at all or have basic server checks/verify or at most user mode AC that simply modifies the runtime code to make cheating more tricky

But overall, I assume that the OP speaks about the topic in general. so I already look at anti cheats such as FACEIT AC or Riot Vanguard and aiming at the worst case scenario

[Lixire]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

Diposting pertama kali oleh KalCuey:

option b does work, though

You should look up what "barely" means. Actually... I will do it for you:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/barely

barely
adverb
by the smallest amount

When they blocked Linux, Linux users got completely blocked, but cheaters were back on within 24 hours.

Battleye is a joke. I don't disagree with you but you have other ACs like FACEIT for CS2 (if you decide to use an alternative matchmaking service) or Riot Vanguard have proven themselves to be very effective by reducing cheating to the minimum and acting fast on existing cheats

Most cheaters within those 2 platforms pay a big amount of money for DMA devices with custom firmware on them that has its own subscription.
While for VAC? just run some garbage off the internet and you are good to go

[D. Flame]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

You should look up what "barely" means. Actually... I will do it for you:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/barely


When they blocked Linux, Linux users got completely blocked, but cheaters were back on within 24 hours.

Battleye is a joke. I don't disagree with you but you have other ACs like FACEIT for CS2 (if you decide to use an alternative matchmaking service) or Riot Vanguard have proven themselves to be very effective by reducing cheating to the minimum and acting fast on existing cheats

Most cheaters within those 2 platforms pay a big amount of money for DMA devices with custom firmware on them that has its own subscription.
While for VAC? just run some garbage off the internet and you are good to go

I am not asking for excuses, and even EAC has the option to allow Linux with the click of a single button on the dev's part.

[Squirrel With Acorn]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

Battleye is a joke. I don't disagree with you but you have other ACs like FACEIT for CS2 (if you decide to use an alternative matchmaking service) or Riot Vanguard have proven themselves to be very effective by reducing cheating to the minimum and acting fast on existing cheats

Most cheaters within those 2 platforms pay a big amount of money for DMA devices with custom firmware on them that has its own subscription.
While for VAC? just run some garbage off the internet and you are good to go

I am not asking for excuses, and even EAC has the option to allow Linux with the click of a single button on the dev's part.

yes, but allowing the anti-cheats to work through Linux significantly decreases it's effectiveness. Its why the developers of Apex Legends are removing this function because they found that it'll decrease the amount of cheaters by a noticeable amount.

[Lixire]

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

Battleye is a joke. I don't disagree with you but you have other ACs like FACEIT for CS2 (if you decide to use an alternative matchmaking service) or Riot Vanguard have proven themselves to be very effective by reducing cheating to the minimum and acting fast on existing cheats

Most cheaters within those 2 platforms pay a big amount of money for DMA devices with custom firmware on them that has its own subscription.
While for VAC? just run some garbage off the internet and you are good to go

I am not asking for excuses, and even EAC has the option to allow Linux with the click of a single button on the dev's part.

Yet you are the one trying to bring them.
I gave you 2 kernel level ACs as an example that do a great job at their purpose.
When Riot moved away from their user mode AC (Packman) to kernel level in League (Vanguard) earlier this year. a crapton of cheaters were banned and botting went down by a large margin + new cheats are getting detected much faster and bans are being issued faster

https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol-retrospective/

Why do I keep on bringing VAC into the mix? to show the side of "server sided ACs" as CS2 is the most popular mainstream game that still uses such solution.

You may like it or not and you do have the option to avoid those games if you want but kernel level ACs have proven themselves very effective and helped for the long term health of the game
If you are concerned about it being a security risk which is valid. plain and simple, don't play such games.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tic-toc26:

You write this is a way that is intended to upset people, your clearly a troll. If you want to be apart of a civil conversation, BE CIVIL.

I am being completely civil. I'm not trying to "troll" anyone or upset anyone. I'm only trying to share truthful information to help inform people of the situation. If you see someone sharing the truth as "trolling" then that's a "you problem".

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tic-toc26:

Now then GTA had support throw Proton/Steam Play, the store page at one point declared it was "Top on Deck" a system that Runs Linux by Default. the Linux community as a whole was barly involved. And your right, the developers did not need to do much, most of the effort was made by valve to push the Steam Deck. Rockstar did not need to do much to make it work.

You still seem to be confused. I will try (again) to help you understand the situation. Rockstar does not support this game running under Linux. Rockstar NEVER supported this game running under Linux. Rockstar designed this game to ONLY run under Microsoft Windows. When Rockstar updates their game they are only concerned with if the game works under Microsoft Windows, where they designed the game to be played. Some other 3rd party group or company (The Linux Community and/or Valve) figured out how to get the game to run in Linux (without the consent of the developer). If you want the game to work in Linux again then you should complain to Valve and ask them to fix it and also post in Linux community forums to try and convince The Linux Community to (yet again like they did in the past) figure out how to make the game work in Linux again. No one that uses Linux should be complaining about the situation to Rockstar the developer. They are only concerned with making sure their game works in their chosen operating system that they wanted the game to run in. As of right now this game works perfectly fine in Microsoft Windows, where Rockstar intended the game to be used.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tic-toc26:

But saying:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Kithylinite:

The developer has not done anything wrong.

all they had to do was reject Proton/Steam Play. They allowed it, and now they don't. They allowed this to happen.

This is part of the problem here that people seem to have with this: No. Rockstar DID NOT "Allow the game to be used in Linux". They never had any concern at all over if the game worked in Linux or not. They never supported the game running in Linux. It's Valve and The Linux Community that "allowed the game to work in Linux". You're complaining to and about the wrong company.

I hope you can (some how) understand this time.

I have hope that some day Valve and The Linux Community can work together to figure out how to get this game to run in Linux again. They are the ones that figured it out the first time years ago. Surely they can do it again if given enough time.

[D. Flame]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lixire:

Diposting pertama kali oleh D. Flame:

I am not asking for excuses, and even EAC has the option to allow Linux with the click of a single button on the dev's part.

Yet you are the one trying to bring them.
I gave you 2 kernel level ACs as an example that do a great job at their purpose.
When Riot moved away from their user mode AC (Packman) to kernel level in League (Vanguard) earlier this year. a crapton of cheaters were banned and botting went down by a large margin + new cheats are getting detected much faster and bans are being issued faster

https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol-retrospective/

Why do I keep on bringing VAC into the mix? to show the side of "server sided ACs" as CS2 is the most popular mainstream game that still uses such solution.

You may like it or not and you do have the option to avoid those games if you want but kernel level ACs have proven themselves very effective and helped for the long term health of the game
If you are concerned about it being a security risk which is valid. plain and simple, don't play such games.

It "went down by a margin" is not the flex that you think it is.

[Ben Lubar]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Kithylinite:

I hope you can (some how) understand this time.

I have hope that some day Valve and The Linux Community can work together to figure out how to get this game to run in Linux again. They are the ones that figured it out the first time years ago. Surely they can do it again if given enough time.

Valve has nothing to do with Rockstar's decision to ban Linux users from their game in update 1.69.

The anticheat software they use has supported Steam Deck for over three years: https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3104663180636096966

They made an intentional decision to not allow Linux users to run their game.