The 2 hour gameplay limit doesn't tell squat! We need a new system but what?

[Heatblizzard]

With the bad economy and so many companies doing asset flips and broken games to make extra cash fast the current 2 hour policy is no longer any good. It may have served it's purpose when the rules were first implemented as the entire economic system was in a very different state (but still not good). We are a lot closer now to the WEF (World Economic Forums) way of living.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

Actually gaming has not changed, in fact game breaking bugs have existed as long as software have existed. Just more evidence you don't know what your talking about.

I've had game breaking bugs on my physical cartridges for NES/SNES where an update is impossible to fix as they can't be updated and refunds have never applied.

Clearly you have never had experience with software. If a bug was grounds for a refund you could beat any game you wanted and then get your money back because you can cite a bug in the code.

Your claims on how refunds would work are incredibly naive and not based on reality.

[xBCxRangers]

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

And these 'live services" and "online only', and other matters that has become an issue over time?

I mean i bought hundreds of discs and cartridges back in the day, and it was nothing like this. Not for me.

In fact, no matter how much we may research a game, in no way will tell us what we're gonna get over time.

I suggest you take your "Guardian of the Gaming Community" mask off, and gauge yourself back into reality.

Reality being, if you're a developer, and cannot come out with a game that will not work beyond the two hours, or need to update your game into a broken state, i suggest you find yourself another job.

Cheers.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

And these 'live services" and "online only', and other matters that has become an issue over time?
I mean i bought hundreds of discs and cartridges back in the day, and it was nothing like this. Not for me.

In fact, no matter how much we may research a game, in no way will tell us what we're gonna get over time.

Sure there is, any game you bought even physical ones if they relied on online servers would ALWAYS shut down eventually. There were PS2 and Dreamcast games for instance that are now unplayable because the servers shut down. That has never changed since they existed.

it's no different then say buying a lifetime membership to a gym and the gym closes 10 years later. You don't get a refund when that happens either.

[Brian9824]

Fun fact, here are over a HUNDRED PS2 games alone, most are indeed physical discs whose online servers have shut down rendering most if not all of the game unplayable.
https://www.ps2onlinegaming.com/viewtopic.php?t=17

There is no refund for any of them because its literally expected and common sense. Although to be fair many people do indeed lack common sense these days.

That list is not complete and was compiled by fans, there are easily hundreds more across a variety of consoles and more that will shut down all the time. Its something everyone knows will happen eventually when you buy an online only game.

I still miss playing Phantasy Star back in the day on consoles.

[xBCxRangers]

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

Fun fact, here are over a HUNDRED PS2 games alone, most are indeed physical discs whose online servers have shut down rendering most if not all of the game unplayable.
https://www.ps2onlinegaming.com/viewtopic.php?t=17

There is no refund for any of them because its literally expected and common sense. Although to be fair many people do indeed lack common sense these days.

That list is not complete and was compiled by fans, there are easily hundreds more across a variety of consoles and more that will shut down all the time. Its something everyone knows will happen eventually when you buy an online only game.

That is not an accurate list of what you are implying, and did not at all need an online component. I still play many of those games, and in fact played all of those games, offline.

They're talking about MP servers, back then with dial up, nothing what it is today.

[Doctor Zalgo]

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

This is where knowledge of the facts come in handy. Australia ruled that every refund steam denied they were justified in doing so. The only fault Australia had was with the DOCUMENTATION of the policy, not the actual policy itself.

What a gross misrepresentation of the ruling.

What the judge actually said was 'the ACCC didn't file these in a way that lets me find in favour of the individuals, but if they had bothered to refile I would have been able to do that.'

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

Fun fact, here are over a HUNDRED PS2 games alone, most are indeed physical discs whose online servers have shut down rendering most if not all of the game unplayable.
https://www.ps2onlinegaming.com/viewtopic.php?t=17

There is no refund for any of them because its literally expected and common sense. Although to be fair many people do indeed lack common sense these days.

That list is not complete and was compiled by fans, there are easily hundreds more across a variety of consoles and more that will shut down all the time. Its something everyone knows will happen eventually when you buy an online only game.

That is not an accurate list of what you are implying. I still play many of those games, and in fact played all of those games, offline. They're talking about MP servers, back then with dial up, nothing what it is today.

"Most, if not all..."

That's what was said.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

Fun fact, here are over a HUNDRED PS2 games alone, most are indeed physical discs whose online servers have shut down rendering most if not all of the game unplayable.
https://www.ps2onlinegaming.com/viewtopic.php?t=17

There is no refund for any of them because its literally expected and common sense. Although to be fair many people do indeed lack common sense these days.

That list is not complete and was compiled by fans, there are easily hundreds more across a variety of consoles and more that will shut down all the time. Its something everyone knows will happen eventually when you buy an online only game.

That is not an accurate list of what you are implying. I still play many of those games, and in fact played all of those games, offline. They're talking about MP servers, back then with dial up, nothing what it is today.

Guess you didn't read, hence why i said most if not all. Many of those games are completely unplayable. For instance the majority of Phantasy Star Online cant be played at all which sucks as I loved the game.

Its common sense really, buying an online only game doesn't guarantee that the servers will remain online forever, same way buying a lifetime membership to any service doesn't mean the service will be around 50 years from now.

Also can't help but notice how you refused to comment on the fact that physical games have game breaking bugs all the time and you never got a refund which disproves your claims of refunds needing to change. It's ALWAYS been this way.

Fun fact for you so can learn something, Final Fantasy 7, one of the best selling games of all time has a rather nasty gamebreaking bug that corrupts your save wiping it out completely. Want to guess if people can get a refund because a gamebreaking bug exists? I'll give you 5 guesses and the answer isn't "YES"

[xBCxRangers]

Escrito originalmente por Boblin the Goblin:

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

That is not an accurate list of what you are implying. I still play many of those games, and in fact played all of those games, offline. They're talking about MP servers, back then with dial up, nothing what it is today.

"Most, if not all..."

That's what was said.

Most of all of those games were based offline sp games. And nothing as compared to today.

And given those changes as it is today, new refund policies to get with todays times.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

Escrito originalmente por Boblin the Goblin:

"Most, if not all..."

That's what was said.

Most of all of those games were based offline sp games. And nothing as compared to today.

And given those changes as it is today, new refund policies to get with todays times.

A lot of stores would not allow the return of an open game. Or only allow a store credit.

For early digital, it was worse.

Steam's is literally one of the more lenient refund policies.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por Doctor Zalgo:

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

This is where knowledge of the facts come in handy. Australia ruled that every refund steam denied they were justified in doing so. The only fault Australia had was with the DOCUMENTATION of the policy, not the actual policy itself.

What a gross misrepresentation of the ruling.

What the judge actually said was 'the ACCC didn't file these in a way that lets me find in favour of the individuals, but if they had bothered to refile I would have been able to do that.'

Citation needed for your claim, also the fact is that Australia has no issue with the refund policy as is. If they did they'd have sued them over the last decade. So that pokes some big holes in your claim. They have no issue with Valve denying refunds after 2 hours of play as that meets Australia's and everyone elses standards.

[Doctor Zalgo]

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

Escrito originalmente por Doctor Zalgo:

What a gross misrepresentation of the ruling.

What the judge actually said was 'the ACCC didn't file these in a way that lets me find in favour of the individuals, but if they had bothered to refile I would have been able to do that.'

Citation needed for your claim, also the fact is that Australia has no issue with the refund policy as is. If they did they'd have sued them over the last decade. So that pokes some big holes in your claim. They have no issue with Valve denying refunds after 2 hours of play as that meets Australia's and everyone elses standards.

Australia doesn't have a problem with the 2 hour limit because we can just ignore it if we need to. On several occasions I've put in manual refund tickets that start 'as per australia legislation ...'

[xBCxRangers]

Escrito originalmente por Boblin the Goblin:

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

Most of all of those games were based offline sp games. And nothing as compared to today.

And given those changes as it is today, new refund policies to get with todays times.

A lot of stores would not allow the return of an open game. Or only allow a store credit.

For early digital, it was worse.

Steam's is literally one of the more lenient refund policies.

That was twenty years ago sir, when gaming was totally different as it is today as explained. Their policy made sense 20 years ago with physical media..

The two hour refund with digital media made sense. Today, they need to revisit the policies.

In other words, the polices need to change with the times.

And given these games made to not be in a playable state at launch (it seems MANY games is in EA or a beta these days) , or as you go into the game, relying on "updates" in effort to fix a game that should never have seen the light of day, two hours may not be enough, and the policy revisited

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Doctor Zalgo:

Escrito originalmente por Brian9824:

Citation needed for your claim, also the fact is that Australia has no issue with the refund policy as is. If they did they'd have sued them over the last decade. So that pokes some big holes in your claim. They have no issue with Valve denying refunds after 2 hours of play as that meets Australia's and everyone elses standards.

Australia doesn't have a problem with the 2 hour limit because we can just ignore it if we need to. On several occasions I've put in manual refund tickets that start 'as per australia legislation ...'

Considering people everywhere have gotten refunds after 2 hours with a manual ticket, I doubt that it's because of starting with the statement.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

Escrito originalmente por Boblin the Goblin:

A lot of stores would not allow the return of an open game. Or only allow a store credit.

For early digital, it was worse.

Steam's is literally one of the more lenient refund policies.

That was twenty years ago sir, when gaming was totally different as it is today as explained. Their policy made sense 20 years ago with physical media..

The two hour refund with digital media made sense. Today, they need to revisit the policies.

In other words, the polices need to change with the times.

And given these games made to not be in a playable state at launch, or as you go into the game, relying on "updates" in effort to fix a game that should never have seen the light of day, two hours may not be enough, and the policy revisited

You should read what I said again.

Then I would love to see how "two hours of playtime" would make sense with a physical disc.