The new terms are about taking your rights away

[Arksyne]

Valve is trying to work around a new California law that would force them to admit they're not SELLING you anything, you're not BUYING anything at all - you're just renting your games. Valve could take the licenses away any time they want.

Valve, like most corporate people, are a bunch of greedy cowards, and won't admit that to your face.

Instead, they've change the terms so you promise you live in King County, Washington along with all the greedy tech bros at Amazon and Microsoft.

Start buying games on GoG whenever you can. They actually *sell* you the game!

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Arksyne:

Valve is trying to work around a new California law that would force them to admit they're not SELLING you anything, you're not BUYING anything at all - you're just renting your games. Valve could take the licenses away any time they want.

Valve, like most corporate people, are a bunch of greedy cowards, and won't admit that to your face.

Instead, they've change the terms so you promise you live in King County, Washington along with all the greedy tech bros at Amazon and Microsoft.

Start buying games on GoG whenever you can. They actually *sell* you the game!

You realize it's identical to the previous version but now it's court instead of arbitration (after using support) right?

Don't believe clickbait/ragebait youtubers that don't even read it that just want more views.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Arksyne:

Valve is trying to work around a new California law that would force them to admit they're not SELLING you anything, you're not BUYING anything at all - you're just renting your games. Valve could take the licenses away any time they want.

Valve, like most corporate people, are a bunch of greedy cowards, and won't admit that to your face.

Instead, they've change the terms so you promise you live in King County, Washington along with all the greedy tech bros at Amazon and Microsoft.

Start buying games on GoG whenever you can. They actually *sell* you the game!

None of that is remotely true, the only change is that if you want to sue them you can now do so without going thru arbitration. No terms about licensing have been changed so please don't spread fake rumors.

[Stop Nakba Denial]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by Stop Nakba Denial:

Not really sure how you could call it "pro-sumer" when it's obvious that Steam did it to save time and money for themselves. That's not inherently bad but it certainly isn't pro-consumer, lol. Steam is basically trying to funnel people in to class-action lawsuits so they can fight one case instead of tens of thousands of individual arbitration cases at the same time. Saving them a ton of time and money.

Some cases are better served in arbitration. Some are better served in court. Neither is inherently better or worse than the other.

While OP is wrong about the SSA changes, he is not wrong about his underlying theme. You are just renting games and do not own anything on Steam or any DRM platform.

Like it always has been.

Which part are you specifically referencing? And that makes it ok? We shouldn't ever strive to make anything better because that's how "it's always been"? Pretty defeatist.

[CANCELCULTURE]

Originally posted by Arksyne:

The new terms are about taking your rights away. Valve is trying to work around a new California law that would force them to admit they're not SELLING you anything, you're not BUYING anything at all - you're just renting your games. Valve could take the licenses away any time they want.

Valve, like most corporate people, are a bunch of greedy cowards, and won't admit that to your face.

Instead, they've change the terms so you promise you live in King County, Washington along with all the greedy tech bros at Amazon and Microsoft.

Start buying games on GoG whenever you can. They actually *sell* you the game!

If they had ever told us to read the Steam Subscriber Agreement, we'd have known that Steam is a subscription rental service.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/?snr=1_44_44_

Each Subscription allows you to access particular Content and Services.

7. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES; LIMITED WARRANTY & AGREEMENT ⏶
C. NO GUARANTEES

TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH.

Terms that did not change.

I laugh that people still pre order and or pay full price for rentals.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by Stop Nakba Denial:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Like it always has been.

Which part are you specifically referencing? And that makes it ok? We shouldn't ever strive to make anything better because that's how "it's always been"? Pretty defeatist.

The licensing.

It's been like that, and defended by courts for over 30 years.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by CANCELCULTURE:

Originally posted by Arksyne:

The new terms are about taking your rights away. Valve is trying to work around a new California law that would force them to admit they're not SELLING you anything, you're not BUYING anything at all - you're just renting your games. Valve could take the licenses away any time they want.

Valve, like most corporate people, are a bunch of greedy cowards, and won't admit that to your face.

Instead, they've change the terms so you promise you live in King County, Washington along with all the greedy tech bros at Amazon and Microsoft.

Start buying games on GoG whenever you can. They actually *sell* you the game!

If they had ever told us to read the Steam Subscriber Agreement, we'd have know that Steam is a subscription rental service.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/?snr=1_44_44_

Each Subscription allows you to access particular Content and Services.

7. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES; LIMITED WARRANTY & AGREEMENT ⏶
C. NO GUARANTEES

TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH.

Terms that did not change.

I laugh that people still pre order and or pay full price for rentals.

It isn't a rental service.

[Preacher]

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

Originally posted by JR APOCALYPSE aka Slayer187:

I think you do not understand! americans do not want what you described, we are not voting for H****s lol smh! We see the truth's not what someone is painted to be just like things. If you do not own the game then you have none of the data which is the game to backup with (steam backup) cough cough.

As long as you don't do something to get your account deleted from steam you'll always habe the game. People need to stop fear mongering the slightest changes to the ssa. It's identical. Its as it has been for keys & licenses. Literally nothing new.

You can buy games on steam that can launch without steam if you want full control. Else, gog.

Physical media and/or owning the files on your computer will always be superior than trusting a third party to not revoke them from you for any reason.

[CANCELCULTURE]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

It isn't a rental service.

you had better read that SSA again https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/?snr=1_44_44_

Just as multiplayer games are a SERVICE, and can change name, game play / content CSGO/SS2 or even die, The Crew, if Valve pulls the plug, bankrupts, or other unforeseen disruptions to the SERVICE, they are not liable for access to our subscriptions.

I mean, sure we can ban together and at least try and "class action" sue them now? But their protection plan is pretty plainly spelled out.

Hey read all those EULA that every game comes with, that also may or may not affect your rights. Not even Valves fault there.

[Kiryn]

Say you don't understand software licensing without saying you don't understand software licensing.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Preacher:

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

As long as you don't do something to get your account deleted from steam you'll always habe the game. People need to stop fear mongering the slightest changes to the ssa. It's identical. Its as it has been for keys & licenses. Literally nothing new.

You can buy games on steam that can launch without steam if you want full control. Else, gog.

Physical media and/or owning the files on your computer will always be superior than trusting a third party to not revoke them from you for any reason.

While true, its also extremely difficult to be banned from steam for an account itself via lock or deletion, it takes actual effort to achieve. Basically someone has to choose to be a nuisance for a prolonged amount of time.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by CANCELCULTURE:

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

It isn't a rental service.

you had better read that SSA again https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/?snr=1_44_44_

Just as multiplayer games are a SERVICE, and can change name, game play / content CSGO/SS2 or even die, The Crew, if Valve pulls the plug, bankrupts, or other unforeseen disruptions to the SERVICE, they are not liable for access to our subscriptions.

I mean, sure we can ban together and at least try and "class action" sue them now? But their protection plan is pretty plainly spelled out.

Hey read all those EULA that every game comes with, that also may or may not affect your rights. Not even Valves fault there.

I have.

It isn't a rental service.

Saying so is just misrepresentation like what is said about FTC guidelines on reviews.

[Poor Bastard]

Originally posted by Arksyne:

Start buying games on GoG whenever you can. They actually *sell* you the game!

GOG sells you a revocable license just like everyone else. By using GOG, you also lose the right to sue them in court.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

Originally posted by CANCELCULTURE:

you had better read that SSA again https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/?snr=1_44_44_

Just as multiplayer games are a SERVICE, and can change name, game play / content CSGO/SS2 or even die, The Crew, if Valve pulls the plug, bankrupts, or other unforeseen disruptions to the SERVICE, they are not liable for access to our subscriptions.

I mean, sure we can ban together and at least try and "class action" sue them now? But their protection plan is pretty plainly spelled out.

Hey read all those EULA that every game comes with, that also may or may not affect your rights. Not even Valves fault there.

I have.

It isn't a rental service.

Saying so is just misrepresentation like what is said about FTC guidelines on reviews.

Yep, lifetime subscriptions are how digital goods are licensed. That remains true for music, games, books, etc. Its how licensing for software has always worked.

Originally posted by Poor Bastard:

Originally posted by Arksyne:

Start buying games on GoG whenever you can. They actually *sell* you the game!

GOG sells you a revocable license just like everyone else. By using GOG, you also lose the right to sue them in court.

Logic has no place here.

[Haruspex]

The only thing the terms change is they removed the forced arbitration requirements. Now individual complaints can be seen in court.

Also the Zaiger lawsuit was dismissed.[casetext.com] This is likely in response.

[Brian9824]

https://www.404media.co/steam-removes-forced-arbitration-clause-gamers-can-now-sue-valve/

The Electronic Frontier Foundation has called forced arbitration “unfair to customers in virtually any context.”

Removing the forced arbitration is nothing but a huge plus for consumers.